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Post  mitchg95 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:23 pm

how do i do this? i want to try it sometime in the next 2 weeks
thanks
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Post  Ken Cook on Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:56 am

Mitch, I can offer a bit of advice. As low of cost as it is to build and fly 1/2 A size planes, it's much easier to learn on a larger model. If larger models aren't within your budget and 1/2 A is the way, bring plenty of ca. A model like the .35 size Ringmaster is a very decent starting point. Large models fly slower giving you the needed reaction time. They're not twitchy like smaller 1/2A's can be. Your going to need a bit of room as a plane like the Ringmaster flies with approx 60' line length. A reliable engine is a must and for someone new crashes are typically unavoidable. Engines are going to hit the ground, needle valves get broken so an engine like the Fox .35 works well. In fact we like to call the ground pounding a part of the Fox .35 break in procedure.

Of course that's our club joke mind you. The only way to learn is to get right back into the air and keep going. Having readily available parts is the key and Fox can do that for you. The Sig Skyray .35 is another model readily available and moderately inexpensive. For a decent run with the Fox, a 3-3.5 oz. tank is sufficient. You would require a handle with a line spacing of no greater than 4" and flying line diameter .015.The Os LA .25 would probably even make your learning experience even more enjoyable as the .25 starts extremely easy and has plenty of power. It does however require a forward venturi needle valve as the remote needle that comes stock doesn't work as well.

The next step is getting it in the air. Setting the plane up with the slowest control setting possible. Pushrod in the furthest hole away from centerline of pivot on your control horn. Test roll your plane on the ground to make sure the gear is properly aligned so that it doesn't have a tendency to roll into the circle. Keep the plane nose heavy for the first flights, this can be accomplished by leaving the stock muffler on, heavier wheels or even adding a spinner. A tail heavy plane results in one that probably won't see a second flight. You want to launch with the wind. Launching into the wind can get the plane floaty real fast causing the plane to lose line tension and the probable crash. I see your looking to do this in the next few weeks and unless you already have the equipment and plane, that may be a stretch. Finding used planes is another good start, but many times they're more trouble than help. Having a plane without a warp in the wing is the key. A warped wing could possibly make the outboard wingtip come up even in level flight which could make the plane fly directly across the circle and back into the pilot. Smooth operating controls with no binds or stiffness is another key element to enjoying control line. Ken
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Post  SuperDave on Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:45 am

Mitch:

I would add to Shawn's comments that the tendency of new CL pilots is to OVER control their planes. The initial goal should be simple "straight and level" flight. The "fun stuff" will come in time when you gain experience and confidence.

I believe that it was Confucious who said: "The longest journey begins with the first step." The longer you dither the more fearful you'll become.

Remember learning to ride a bicycle?

Review Brodak's "Flying Around" if you want instructions
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Post  John Goddard on Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:41 am

SuperDave wrote:Mitch:


Remember learning to ride a bicycle?

Review Brodak's "Flying Around" if you want instructions

Cracking title for a cycling book Dave
Very Happy
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Post  SuperDave on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:09 am

Mitch:

Providing you can find a CL instructor that's another way to go. (I've mentioned this to you several times previously) Rolling Eyes
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Post  Ivanhoe on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:21 am

Most important advice has already been given here, but I'll add mine.
DO NOT MOVE YOUR WRIST! this is the beginners' classic mistake. Keep your wrist rigid, lift your whole arm from the shoulder to go up, lower it to go down. Back in the day we would even go as far as to splint a beginner's wrist with a piece of wood and tape, to make sure they couldn't over control!
With a rigid arm the model will climb until the lines equalise, then level out, if you pull the handle full up from the wrist, the model will try to loop, it will then either roll in on you, or end in a heap on the ground.
Keep that wrist rigid!
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Post  andrew on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:43 am

Ivanhoe wrote:
DO NOT MOVE YOUR WRIST! this is the beginners' classic mistake. Keep your wrist rigid, lift your whole arm from the shoulder to go up, lower it to go down. Back in the day we would even go as far as to splint a beginner's wrist with a piece of wood and tape, to make sure they couldn't over control!
.............Keep that wrist rigid!

+1

Great advice for a beginner, especially if you're on your own.
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Post  RknRusty on Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:19 am

Yes, I wish I had been taught that way. My Dad taught me to hold the handle overhanded straight out in front and use my wrist only. It's no doubt the reason for my retarded learning curve and a splintered pile of Stuka slag. Not only that, but I can't switch to up and down arm action now because my grip reverses the up and down lines. Too much muscle memory to overcome. I tried. Once.
I can tell newbies how to do it, but I can't show them.

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Post  Ken Cook on Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:10 pm

I've never done this myself, but I've seen it done was to install the prop on backwards. The plane will still fly but the efficiency of the prop is really cut down. The plane will still fly but quite slow. Even though things look slow outside of the circle, it can be overwhelming on the inside if your not prepared for it. Ken
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Post  andrew on Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:49 pm

I agree that learning on a larger plane is easier than with a 1/2A sized model, but they do require greater space and can be more expensive, especially if they come home in a trashbag. Generally, building time and cost will be higher plus the engines may cost more.

One advantage of learning on 1/2A sized planes is that their survivability is greatly improved simply by flying over tall grass. They're light enough that the high grass will cushion almost all crashes except the most severe high speed nose-in's. Wheeled take-offs and landings can be practiced later on after your skill level goes up and you are able to fly over short grass or other smooth surface.

There are a couple of very tough, but easily built trainers that you can put together in an evening and for very little cost. These planes are not great flyers, but will be sufficient for you to practice turning in the circle, maintaining line tension and learning the basics of control. One is the Osborne Platter and the other is the Manwin Trainer.

Here are links to the respective pages:
Osborne Platter
Manwin Trainer

Some pics of a Manwin Trainer ---

flying control line Cl_tra12

flying control line Cl_tra13

I have maybe $3.00 invested in each of these. The motor mount and control horn were bent from some sheet metal picked up at Lowe's. I had music wire laying around for the pushrod and the pushrod retainers are just some insulation from a piece of wire. I already had coroplast from some other projects, but I've seen some built from discarded signs. The bellcrank is cut from blank printed circuit board (salvaged at work) with a beariing made from brass tubing soldered on. A smaller telescoping piece of tubing made up the inner bearing. Scrap and a little clear packing tape finished it off.
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Post  gcb on Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:11 pm

If there is a local CL club near you, ask if they have a trainer. Some clubs have trainers, and some flyers bring along a trainer in case some interested person would like to try.

Most flyers will help and answer questions.

George
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Post  microflitedude on Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:22 pm

I recently got to fly CL for the first time. I was at an RC event, where place was designated for CL circles.

It was this plane -

http://www.stevensaero.com/StevensAero-RingRat-CL-100-Nostalgic-Electric-Control-Line-S-p-20213.html

It had a 60 second timer connected to a brushless motor powered by a 11.1v Lipo. It was pretty fun and easy I thought. It had a prop saver so the prop just folded over when you nosed over. The landing gear was supported by rubber bands, so it took rough landings without a problem.

That might be worth looking into. Having an instructor with you makes a world of difference. He was right beside me the whole flight.
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Post  Ivanhoe on Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:27 pm

microflitedude wrote:I recently got to fly CL for the first time. I was at an RC event, where place was designated for CL circles.

It was this plane -

http://www.stevensaero.com/StevensAero-RingRat-CL-100-Nostalgic-Electric-Control-Line-S-p-20213.html

It had a 60 second timer connected to a brushless motor powered by a 11.1v Lipo. It was pretty fun and easy I thought. It had a prop saver so the prop just folded over when you nosed over. The landing gear was supported by rubber bands, so it took rough landings without a problem.

That might be worth looking into. Having an instructor with you makes a world of difference. He was right beside me the whole flight.

But that is...spit! Spit!....Electric, we are talking about REAL C/L here! lol!
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Post  mitchg95 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:08 pm

andrew wrote:I agree that learning on a larger plane is easier than with a 1/2A sized model, but they do require greater space and can be more expensive, especially if they come home in a trashbag. Generally, building time and cost will be higher plus the engines may cost more.

One advantage of learning on 1/2A sized planes is that their survivability is greatly improved simply by flying over tall grass. They're light enough that the high grass will cushion almost all crashes except the most severe high speed nose-in's. Wheeled take-offs and landings can be practiced later on after your skill level goes up and you are able to fly over short grass or other smooth surface.

There are a couple of very tough, but easily built trainers that you can put together in an evening and for very little cost. These planes are not great flyers, but will be sufficient for you to practice turning in the circle, maintaining line tension and learning the basics of control. One is the Osborne Platter and the other is the Manwin Trainer.

Here are links to the respective pages:
Osborne Platter
Manwin Trainer

Some pics of a Manwin Trainer ---

flying control line Cl_tra12

flying control line Cl_tra13

I have maybe $3.00 invested in each of these. The motor mount and control horn were bent from some sheet metal picked up at Lowe's. I had music wire laying around for the pushrod and the pushrod retainers are just some insulation from a piece of wire. I already had coroplast from some other projects, but I've seen some built from discarded signs. The bellcrank is cut from blank printed circuit board (salvaged at work) with a beariing made from brass tubing soldered on. A smaller telescoping piece of tubing made up the inner bearing. Scrap and a little clear packing tape finished it off.


i like the manwin, looks pretty cool alot of right thrust there, ill have to build one of the 2 that you posted
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Post  Godsey3.0 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:12 pm

Sig Skyray is also and excellent trainer. Very easy to fix. My dad would fly it and I could actually run faster than it flew. This was with the prop on backwards.
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Post  mitchg95 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:14 pm

oh ya, i cant find the one that i built so called 5 lhs in my area and no one had them Sad
when i do find one, ill put the prop on backwards, run it really rich
will a 3 bladed prop mounted backwards make this plane slower?
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Post  Godsey3.0 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:17 pm

You may want to be careful running the engine rich with the prop backwards. It could end up coming in on you. Happened to us a couple of times. I learned on a original Carl Goldberg Lil Wizard. Never crashed it. It is insanely nose heavy. The kit for the Skyray is only $15 on the Sig website. I built one just to play around with stunts.

Rolla
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Post  mitchg95 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:19 pm

so 1/4-1/2 turn from full rpm on the needle?
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Post  Godsey3.0 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:21 pm

That may be too much. Just a little back so it can unload when flying. You can try it with prop backwards and rich but it may come to high five you with a little breeze.
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Post  mitchg95 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:23 pm

dont wanna high 5 a running engine spinning a knife at 15k rpm, ill have the nv a little back so it can unload when flying
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Post  ahrma_581 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:30 pm

PT19 (or similar Cox RTF). Barely flies but will go in a circle. By the time you crash it to bits, you'll have learned CL basics. And you'll wind up with another motor.... Smile

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Post  mitchg95 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:31 pm

lol, i dont wanna destroy a cox airplane
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Post  Ivanhoe on Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:10 pm

mitchg95 wrote:oh ya, i cant find the one that i built so called 5 lhs in my area and no one had them Sad
when i do find one, ill put the prop on backwards, run it really rich
will a 3 bladed prop mounted backwards make this plane slower?

Slower? It will probably stop altogether! You need SOME thrust from the engine, if only to keep the lines tight, if you slow it down too much it will simply wallow around and probably end up falling in on you, you need enough speed for the elevator to be effective, if it's too slow and you put on up elevator it will simply push the tail down and probably stall the model. Build a solid balsa beginners model, not ultra light, run the engine normally, and DON'T BE FRIGHTENED OF IT! you are going to crash many times before you learn the skills, but the right model will bounce, it's supposed to be fun, for goodness sake!
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Post  gcb on Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:28 pm

Godsey3.0 wrote:You may want to be careful running the engine rich with the prop backwards. It could end up coming in on you. Happened to us a couple of times. I learned on a original Carl Goldberg Lil Wizard. Never crashed it. It is insanely nose heavy. The kit for the Skyray is only $15 on the Sig website. I built one just to play around with stunts.

Rolla


I fully agree with the SIG Skyray. It is a plane that you can learn to fly on, then make it sensitive enough to learn some basic stunts. It is also easily repairable.

I have a couple, plus some sorta-likes. At that price, think I'll get a couple more...one of mine is ~35 years old. Make sure you make a copy of the individual parts (I trace them on the back of the plans) in case you need to make a replacement.

George
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Post  mitchg95 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:30 pm

ill buy another one when they have them in stock at my lhs again. The reason i mentioned that i wanted to fly one of these in the next 2 weeks is because i might be flying with my uncle, dad and little brother sometime in that time period
thanks for all the suggestions Smile
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