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Post  JPvelo Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:17 pm

Doing a scratchbuild from Brodak plans but incorporating some things from the original as well.
Lil' Satan build. IJ1wj
Lil' Satan build. IOwYt
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Post  Cribbs74 Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:33 am

Looks good so far!

What are you altering from the original plans?


Last edited by cribbs74 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  JPvelo Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:00 am

Going with the inboard mounted bellcrank and tank buried in the wing from Brodak plans but sticking with the radial mount from the original. Will be running a black widow cylinder mounted to a babe bee tank that has been plumbed for an external tank. The backplate and Venturi have also been opened up.
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Post  RknRusty Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:54 am

JPvelo wrote:Going with the inboard mounted bellcrank and tank buried in the wing from Brodak plans but sticking with the radial mount from the original. Will be running a black widow cylinder mounted to a babe bee tank that has been plumbed for an external tank. The backplate and Venturi have also been opened up.

All I changed was to add a spar to help hold the airfoil shape on both sides of the wing. And a loop on the TE for the control rod to keep it from flexing and slapping.

I also had to widen the center sheeting so there was something for the Ultracote to stick to after removing strips to expose wood to glue the tail boom. On the old ones with silkspan, I guess you just glued the boom right to the covering, but you can't do that with plastic covering. If you have already glued your center sheeting, I can show you how I added on to mine. Andrew pointed the problem out to me after I had started gluing it up, so I had to retrofit to fix it. If you're covering with tissue it may not be an issue.

Lil' Satan build. Satan_10 Lil' Satan build. Center10

You can see all the changes through the cover in this picture. The top and bottom spars have braces supporting them.

Lil' Satan build. Virgin10


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Post  JPvelo Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:17 am

Already extended sheeting as per Brodak plans to accommodate the inboard bellcrank and filler/vent tubes on the tank. Now if I can only learn to fly it as well as you fly yours. What did you make your trailing edge pushrod loop from? I have a Brodak Stork that loops like a pig, I think pushrod flex may be to blame.
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Post  RknRusty Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:34 am

My plans were old Goldberg drawings, so maybe they didn't accommodate the modern builder like Brodak.

I don't know what to call the guide, but I am headed to the shop in a little while, so I'll show you a picture of it. It's just a metal L that had pre-drilled holes in it. Something on mine rattles, you can hear it bouncing off the church walls. I thought maybe it was the rod, but I still can't figure out what the hell it is. You can't hear it in the field, but the camera picks it up. I've managed not to wreck it too bad. I used extra glass to hold the nacelle on. Contrary to popular opinion it's a tough little bird.

Here's a good Satan video with a radial mounted Black Widow and a 5.5x3 prop. It's a fun little plane.
This should work full screen:



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Post  andrew Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:05 am

Your build is coming along really well.

The nice thing about a buried tank is that it's out of sight and streamlined. The bad thing about a buried tank is that it's out of sight and inaccessible. When I have a tank that cannot be reached easily, I like to give the fuel tubing a couple of wraps of waxed dental floss and tie it off --- probably overkill, but it reduces the chance of the fuel tubing ever coming off the tank.

Where your tank vent and filler tubes come through the center sheeting, be sure that you fuel proof the sheeting some distance from the tubes. With a hole in the covering at these locations, fuel and oil seepage can be problematic over time. I like to use epoxy in these areas -- usually 30 min. epoxy. After applying, warm it enough with a heat gun so it spreads out and soaks into the underlying wood.
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Lil' Satan build. Empty Starting to resemble an airplane.

Post  JPvelo Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:38 pm

Hope to finish by Friday and brave the heat for a few flights.
https://i.imgur.com/6902w.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qUcVa.jpg
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Post  Cribbs74 Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:26 pm

Looking good! Covering the center section is going to be a bear.
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Post  Ken Cook Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:11 pm

I'd like to add an idea here in regards to your tank. In the event the plane hits the ground, especially on a full tank you run the risk of the tank flying forward and the brass tubing going through the leading edge could very well punch a hole right through your tank. I generally cover my tank fronts with 1/8th lite ply on profile models. You could then use some 1/4" x 1/4" propped from the ply to your leading edge. That would keep your tank from flying forward. Even though the filler and overflow pipes pass through the sheeting, this won't adequately hold the tank. It will rip the sheeting which also may result in the filler pipes being broken out. Many times, when I'm building a wing, I remove the bottom overflow pipe and seal it completely. Ken
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Post  JPvelo Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:14 pm

cribbs74 wrote:Looking good! Covering the center section is going to be a bear.
Nah, going to use monokote up to the tail booms and then cover the rest in rustoleum.
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Post  RknRusty Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:00 pm

JPvelo wrote:
cribbs74 wrote:Looking good! Covering the center section is going to be a bear.
Nah, going to use monokote up to the tail booms and then cover the rest in rustoleum.
I covered the whole wing. Then cut away strips of Ultracote with a hot exacto knife to expose wood for the tail booms and nacelle. If you haven't glued the tail and nacelle on yet, that's an easy way to go. In the pictures it looked like maybe they were just pressed on.

Is your whole tank behind the CG?

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Post  JPvelo Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:26 pm

RknRusty wrote:
JPvelo wrote:
cribbs74 wrote:Looking good! Covering the center section is going to be a bear.
Nah, going to use monokote up to the tail booms and then cover the rest in rustoleum.
I covered the whole wing. Then cut away strips of Ultracote with a hot exacto knife to expose wood for the tail booms and nacelle. If you haven't glued the tail and nacelle on yet, that's an easy way to go. In the pictures it looked like maybe they were just pressed on.

Is your whole tank behind the CG?
Tail is already glued on, wish I would have done it your way. Yes tank is behind cg. Didn't occur to me until after it was glued in. Soooooo, could be an interesting ride. Will test cg with tank empty and full. May have to defer to slightly nose heavy so it's flyable with a full tank. Look at this way, the dizzier you get the easier it is to fly! affraid
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Post  RknRusty Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:50 pm

JPvelo wrote:Tail is already glued on, wish I would have done it your way. Yes tank is behind cg. Didn't occur to me until after it was glued in. Soooooo, could be an interesting ride. Will test cg with tank empty and full. May have to defer to slightly nose heavy so it's flyable with a full tank. Look at this way, the dizzier you get the easier it is to fly! affraid
Ha! Yeah, it might be a little like flying a roller-coaster. The good thing is, it's so light you can belly slap the ground and not hurt anything. Right now, before you cover it, it's at the stage where you can get a good idea of where it does balance, so if you want to re-think anything it's all still accessible.

I noticed a difference in yours, other than Brodak widening the sheeting, which was mighty nice of them. Your bellcrank is outside of the center compartment. Mine is in between the #1 Ribs, right inside the center of the sheeting. So my control rod comes out of the bottom and connects to the center of the stabilator. Not necessarily better or worse, just a difference I noticed.

Which reminds me, a few days ago I promised to take a picture of my control rod guide brace and then forgot to post it. It may be irrelevant since yours is different, but here it is in case it helps.

Lil' Satan build. 08091210

Aaak! My phone cam makes it look orange.


Last edited by RknRusty on Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  JPvelo Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:39 pm

I had one of these twenty years ago and the thing I liked almost as much as how well it flew was it's ability to bounce!
Brodak puts the bellcrank inboard and the tank in the center. I wanted to sheet the nacelle which would have buried the fill/vent tubes. If you order Satan plans from Brodak they are kind enough to send the original Goldberg version and the updated set.
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Post  Cribbs74 Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:22 pm

JPvelo wrote:
cribbs74 wrote:Looking good! Covering the center section is going to be a bear.
Nah, going to use monokote up to the tail booms and then cover the rest in rustoleum.

That will work too. In the end these things get beat up pretty good. I try to keep that in mind when building and something doesn't turn out perfect.

For a clean finish you probably would want to do as Rusty suggested it's what I do as well.

I have cut many glued pieces off with success so it can be done with patience.

Ron
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Post  JPvelo Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:54 pm

Running a single port cylinder with spi to keepit tame on the first few flights to keep it tame. Eventually will get a #1 with high comp head. Surprisingly fuel in thetank doesn't have a great effect on cg.
https://i.imgur.com/de5EI.jpg
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Post  RknRusty Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:57 pm

Very nice. So, it balances okay? Are you going to fly it this weekend?

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Post  fit90 Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:07 pm

Speaking of "flying this weekend" Rusty, are you able to fly yet?
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Post  JPvelo Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:10 pm

Hope to fly today when I pick my son up from school if it's not to hot. I live in Phoenix and it's finally cooled down to the low 100's. Crying or Very sad
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Post  RknRusty Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:06 pm

JPvelo wrote:Hope to fly today when I pick my son up from school if it's not to hot. I live in Phoenix and it's finally cooled down to the low 100's. Crying or Very sad
100, nice. At least the humidity probably isn't high. I've always wanted to do the tourist thing in the desert Southwest. So far, nothing but a 4 day convention trip to Vegas and a tour of the Hoover dam, Lake Mead, etc.
Good luck, be sure and file a detailed report for our scrutiny. Very Happy Biplane

fit90 wrote:Speaking of "flying this weekend" Rusty, are you able to fly yet?
Got the stitches out yesterday and steri-strips now. It doesn't look like something I should get fuel all over. It's on the heel and palm of my right hand. My head is going to explode if I don't get to do something pretty soon. I haven't been able to finish making my test stand because I can't use force on a screwdriver. I almost popped a stitch Tuesday trying to get it made. I don't want to be stupid and prolong it by rushing it. DAMMIT! I haven't flown since Traveling Prop day and the wild flight of the BFStreak. I have gotten all of my fleet fixed up and ready to snatch and go.

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Post  Cribbs74 Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:38 pm

RknRusty wrote:
JPvelo wrote:Hope to fly today when I pick my son up from school if it's not to hot. I live in Phoenix and it's finally cooled down to the low 100's. Crying or Very sad
100, nice. At least the humidity probably isn't high. I've always wanted to do the tourist thing in the desert Southwest. So far, nothing but a 4 day convention trip to Vegas and a tour of the Hoover dam, Lake Mead, etc.
Good luck, be sure and file a detailed report for our scrutiny. Very Happy Biplane

fit90 wrote:Speaking of "flying this weekend" Rusty, are you able to fly yet?
Got the stitches out yesterday and steri-strips now. It doesn't look like something I should get fuel all over. It's on the heel and palm of my right hand. My head is going to explode if I don't get to do something pretty soon. I haven't been able to finish making my test stand because I can't use force on a screwdriver. I almost popped a stitch Tuesday trying to get it made. I don't want to be stupid and prolong it by rushing it. DAMMIT! I haven't flown since Traveling Prop day and the wild flight of the BFStreak. I have gotten all of my fleet fixed up and ready to snatch and go.

Just think about how much fun you will have when the time finally comes!
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Post  fit90 Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:04 pm

I think I am speaking for everyone here when I say that as much as we want you to heal quickly we would rather see you heal completely so you do not need to take any breaks in your flying after you have healed. We still do want you to heal quickly, though.

Bob (on behalf of everyone)

Sorry for interupting the thread
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Post  RknRusty Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:17 pm

fit90 wrote:I think I am speaking for everyone here when I say that as much as we want you to heal quickly we would rather see you heal completely so you do not need to take any breaks in your flying after you have healed. We still do want you to heal quickly, though.

Bob (on behalf of everyone)

Sorry for interrupting the thread
Thanks Bob and everyone. I really appreciate that. My son is home and has heard my tales of breaking the 25K RPM club with my Norvel. He wants to see it. Maybe I'll get him to assist me in firing it up. He can screw my mount together anyway. It has a starter spring, so if he can light it I can needle it. Exciting stuff.
[/hijack}

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Post  JPvelo Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:06 am

Well... Glow batteries were low so starting was a b###h. When it did start we found out that I had built a slight amount of upthrust into the firewall so it would nose up immediately upon realease and slow loop into the ground. Going out later today or Monday with washers under the top mounts and fresh batteries.
https://i.imgur.com/b2xJK.jpg
This is a photo with the washers in place.
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