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Post  Cribbs74 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:42 pm

Ok,

Another CL newb question. What is the proper setup for line connections?

Do I need disconnect links on the handle end and the leadout end? As it stands I am using Spyderwire or Dacron depending on the handle and I have fishing snap swivels to attach to the leadouts. On the other end I am tying directly to the handle. This seems to work fine although I doubt it's proper.

Can anyone shed some light?

Ron
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Post  Ken Cook on Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:04 pm

Hello Ron, most flyers have clips on both ends. When your using steel lines, there is a thimble that the lines wrap around and are either bound in copper wire or a crush sleeve is used. Either way it's AMA acceptable. The line clips pass through the thimble and prevent fraying of the cable. Luxon brand slide clips are generally what most flyers use on models from 1/2A - .certain sized .40 models. These clips come in small, medium, and large. I prefer medium for 1/2 A use. My big hands don't work with small stuff. Your now at the limit in the big stuff with these clips as the line tension could straighten the clip. Combat planes and many of mine use button style bellcranks. The lines are looped over the buttons and the line tension and speed keep the lines on the buttons. When using Spiderwire lines also known as GSUMP lines, the Palomar knot should be tied. It should be tied to either a clip or the leadouts directly. Tying to your handle is acceptable. It may be inconvenient, especially if the lines get damaged. I modify Sig 1/2A bellcranks to accept steel or Spiderwire. I use a double loop on my terminated end on steel and I cut the bellcrank with a razor saw. I can provide a picture if interested. This only works with exposed bellcranks. Planes like the Jumping Bean and also Baby Ring have internal bellcranks which would use leadouts out to the inboard wingtip. I use thimbles on my term ends and use small clips. One thing I would caution with the use of fishing snap swivels is the fact that they could jam up. Having one right next to each other could easily snag one onto the other resulting in no control. This can also happen with the slide clips but they're symmetrical lessening the chances of snagging on one another. Ken
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Post  RknRusty on Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:54 pm

I use rings(thimbles?) on the end of the leadouts. I use small fishing clips on the lines, but I use the ones that do not have a protruding L on the part you press and clip. They don't get hooked up with each other but you need to replace them occasionally.

I use either dacron or the kit supplied wire and thimbles for the leadouts.
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Post  Ken Cook on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:53 pm

I provided some pictures of the commercially available clips that most control line flyers use. The slide clip and the squeeze style clip. I'm not a big fan of the slide clip. I had some straighten on models and I've seen more than my share of flyers who never slide the clip to lock it and then go fly. This can't happen with the squeeze style clip. The squeeze style has a pretty high duty rating. I have a larger squeeze style in the pic and they're rated for approx 110lbs. I also show the 1/2A slide clips. The rings probably better describe my thimble terminology. The handle in the picture is one I just built this week and the clear is still drying. The old Cox handles really shouldn't be used anymore due to the plastic and its age. The bucket handle in the bottom of the pic is a great 1/2A handle and is very inexpensive.

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Post  RknRusty on Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:39 pm

Ken Cook wrote: ...The old Cox handles really shouldn't be used anymore due to the plastic and its age.
Yeah, my handle in the picture above is proof of that. It happened when I went out to test fly the rebuilt nose on my Li'l Jumpin' Bean. I spent a week working on that nose. It let go all at once and set the Bean free as it proceeded to do a full power nose in crash from way up high onto the concrete sidewalk at the churchyard. I was so mad I couldn't even cuss. But the nose held and is about all that hasn't broken since then.

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Post  Cribbs74 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:57 am

Thanks guys,

I think I have it under control now. Nitro sent me some .008 line with some slide clips in it so now I know how it all works.

Long story short, the setup I am using will work fine for what I am doing. I do think I should pick up some squeeze style clips in the future though.

My next question is adjusting line lengths! How do you do it? I usually take a tape measure and measure out 30' of line and cut. The problem I am having is that I can never seem to tie the knot in the same place so my lines end up different lengths so I have to re-cut and keep doing it by trial and error to get it right.

I usually attach one end to the leadouts on the wing first then measure out to the handle and tie off there.
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Post  PV Pilot on Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:10 am

The squeeze style that Ken posted are the cats meow. Stay away from the cheap Danielson trout style barrel snap swivels. For the squeeze style, you can add The Berkley ball bearing barrel swivels if need be. Available at most fishing gear supply shacks.

I held onto a fiesty 100Lb white sturgeon with the small squeeze style, till he straightened the hook.
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Post  Cribbs74 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:34 am

PV Pilot wrote:The squeeze style that Ken posted are the cats meow. Stay away from the cheap Danielson trout style barrel snap swivels. For the squeeze style, you can add The Berkley ball bearing barrel swivels if need be. Available at most fishing gear supply shacks.

I held onto a fiesty 100Lb white sturgeon with the small squeeze style, till he straightened the hook.

Currently I am using ones identical to what Rusty has in his picture. Are those the ones you are speaking of?

Never hooked into a Sturgeon that I know of although I have pulled out a straight hook a time or two. Usually my line snaps first.
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Post  RknRusty on Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:28 am

cribbs74 wrote:...My next question is adjusting line lengths! How do you do it? I usually take a tape measure and measure out 30' of line and cut. The problem I am having is that I can never seem to tie the knot in the same place so my lines end up different lengths so I have to re-cut and keep doing it by trial and error to get it right.

I usually attach one end to the leadouts on the wing first then measure out to the handle and tie off there.

Every plane needs a slight length adjustment. With the old Cox handles, the line passed through the handle which had a little protruding mushroom in the middle of it, around which you wrapped several inches of line before continuing out the other side of the handle(the handle in the picture doesn't have the wraps that should be around the mushroom). There was no knot tied at the handle. You can wrap or unwrap a tiny bit of line to match the leadouts on the plane you are hooking up to. Before flying always make sure that the lines are adjusted so neutral elevator in in the position you want it.

CL line proper setup. Handle10

On the red Brodak/Sig handle, the little thing molded to it looks too weak. So I made one out of a small cotter pin, a piece of tube and a washer. You can tie off at the handle, just leave enough line so you can wrap some around the thing for adjustment.

On my Sig handle you can see I did tie off at the handle. Note my homemade adjuster. The clip with the black ink on it is the Up line.
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Post  Cribbs74 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:30 am

Holy crap! Now I know what that stub is for. Good grief I am slow. That's going to be so much easier than cutting and retying all the time.


Last edited by cribbs74 on Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  RknRusty on Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:38 am

That Teflon coated Spiderwire is a btch to tie too. the palomar knot works if you can pass whatever you're tying back through the loop.
http://www.fish4fun.com/palomarknot.htm

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexfishing.php

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Post  PV Pilot on Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:55 am

cribbs74 wrote:
PV Pilot wrote:The squeeze style that Ken posted are the cats meow. Stay away from the cheap Danielson trout style barrel snap swivels. For the squeeze style, you can add The Berkley ball bearing barrel swivels if need be. Available at most fishing gear supply shacks.

I held onto a fiesty 100Lb white sturgeon with the small squeeze style, till he straightened the hook.

Currently I am using ones identical to what Rusty has in his picture. Are those the ones you are speaking of?

Never hooked into a Sturgeon that I know of although I have pulled out a straight hook a time or two. Usually my line snaps first.

Those are the ones I speak of Ron. A better light wire snap would be these, because the tag ends are bent at 90deg to the metal clasps. You don't have to pay this price on the link, because those are shown with a ball bearing swivel. Allthough I like the ball bearing swivels, they may be out of the range some folks like to pay.
http://www.basspro.com/Sampo-Split-Ring-and-Lock-Snap-Swivel/product/37965/60036?hvarAID=shopping_googleproductextensions&om_mmc=shopping_googleproductextensions&affcode_c=17kw3123372&SST=1406035a-ece3-f2c8-da87-00002731692f
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Post  RknRusty on Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:42 pm

PV Pilot wrote:Those are the ones I speak of Ron. A better light wire snap would be these, because the tag ends are bent at 90deg to the metal clasps. You don't have to pay this price on the link, because those are shown with a ball bearing swivel. Allthough I like the ball bearing swivels, they may be out of the range some folks like to pay.
http://www.basspro.com/Sampo-Split-Ring-and-Lock-Snap-Swivel/product/37965/60036?hvarAID=shopping_googleproductextensions&om_mmc=shopping_googleproductextensions&affcode_c=17kw3123372&SST=1406035a-ece3-f2c8-da87-00002731692f
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The tang that sticks out is what I had get hooked up in mid flight before. They are stronger, to be sure, but after a bad experience having my lines stuck together, I have to stick with the smooth edged ones like on my handles above. The only trouble with them is they get loose sometimes. You have to make a close inspection of the clips in your preflight checks.

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Post  Cribbs74 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:05 pm

RknRusty wrote:
PV Pilot wrote:Those are the ones I speak of Ron. A better light wire snap would be these, because the tag ends are bent at 90deg to the metal clasps. You don't have to pay this price on the link, because those are shown with a ball bearing swivel. Allthough I like the ball bearing swivels, they may be out of the range some folks like to pay.
http://www.basspro.com/Sampo-Split-Ring-and-Lock-Snap-Swivel/product/37965/60036?hvarAID=shopping_googleproductextensions&om_mmc=shopping_googleproductextensions&affcode_c=17kw3123372&SST=1406035a-ece3-f2c8-da87-00002731692f
CL line proper setup. Captur10
The tang that sticks out is what I had get hooked up in mid flight before. They are stronger, to be sure, but after a bad experience having my lines stuck together, I have to stick with the smooth edged ones like on my handles above. The only trouble with them is they get loose sometimes. You have to make a close inspection of the clips in your preflight checks.


I picked up some of those the other day thinking it eould be a good clip because of the bend before I read this. However I wonder if you took a Dremel and ground those tangs down a bit to alleviate the snagging issue. Not too much mind you just enough to keep from snagging, but keeping the 90 degree bend so they still have a good bite.
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Post  RknRusty on Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:42 pm

cribbs74 wrote:I picked up some of those the other day thinking it eould be a good clip because of the bend before I read this. However I wonder if you took a Dremel and ground those tangs down a bit to alleviate the snagging issue. Not too much mind you just enough to keep from snagging, but keeping the 90 degree bend so they still have a good bite.
I almost suggested that, but since the shape is meant to use the tang, I decided not to write it. You could grind the tangs to a nub, but not all the way off.

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Post  Ken Cook on Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:23 pm

MBS model supply can fill all your control line wire and accessory needs. http://mbsmodelsupply.com/ Melvin the owner is a great guy and he gets the orders out promptly. If there's a problem, he e-mails you and lets you know. Great service. Ken
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Post  Kim on Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:50 pm

Ken Cook wrote: MBS model supply can fill all your control line wire and accessory needs. http://mbsmodelsupply.com/ Melvin the owner is a great guy and he gets the orders out promptly. If there's a problem, he e-mails you and lets you know. Great service. Ken

Thanks for the tip on this site! Gonna bookmark him and do some business !
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Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:33 am

Ken Cook wrote: MBS model supply can fill all your control line wire and accessory needs. http://mbsmodelsupply.com/ Melvin the owner is a great guy and he gets the orders out promptly. If there's a problem, he e-mails you and lets you know. Great service. Ken

Good link! He doesn't have a lot, but his prices are good!
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Post  Ken Cook on Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:44 am

Ron, Melvin is a racing enthusiast. What he does have, and nobody else carries is bulk items like the line eyelets. He has the crimp tubes. He used to carry some of the smallest and best fuel filters in the hobby. They were about the size of a pencil eraser and fit great in full bodied stunters. The ignitor clip that he carries is also what I believe to be the best as it works on Enya plugs, Nelson plugs and all others. I crimp all my terminations even on large models. All of my club members, wrap and tie their terminations with copper wire. It's a pain in the rear and although it may be considered a living and moving joint so to speak, I've had the lines break with them. I find it very convenient to crimp and I also have a terrific tool for crimping. The small crush sleeves Melvin sells works great on .008 - .012 lines. Ken
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Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:55 am

Ken Cook wrote: I provided some pictures of the commercially available clips that most control line flyers use. The slide clip and the squeeze style clip. I'm not a big fan of the slide clip. I had some straighten on models and I've seen more than my share of flyers who never slide the clip to lock it and then go fly. This can't happen with the squeeze style clip. The squeeze style has a pretty high duty rating. I have a larger squeeze style in the pic and they're rated for approx 110lbs. I also show the 1/2A slide clips. The rings probably better describe my thimble terminology. The handle in the picture is one I just built this week and the clear is still drying. The old Cox handles really shouldn't be used anymore due to the plastic and its age. The bucket handle in the bottom of the pic is a great 1/2A handle and is very inexpensive.

CL line proper setup. Dscn1529

Where does one find said bucket handle? I use my Cox handles currently never even considered the fact they may crack! I just looked them over and they appeared to be OK with no stress cracks. I may discontinue use just in case. I also need a tether. I have parachute cord I wonder if that would work?

Ron
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Post  PV Pilot on Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:41 am

RknRusty wrote:
PV Pilot wrote:Those are the ones I speak of Ron. A better light wire snap would be these, because the tag ends are bent at 90deg to the metal clasps. You don't have to pay this price on the link, because those are shown with a ball bearing swivel. Allthough I like the ball bearing swivels, they may be out of the range some folks like to pay.
http://www.basspro.com/Sampo-Split-Ring-and-Lock-Snap-Swivel/product/37965/60036?hvarAID=shopping_googleproductextensions&om_mmc=shopping_googleproductextensions&affcode_c=17kw3123372&SST=1406035a-ece3-f2c8-da87-00002731692f
CL line proper setup. Captur10
The tang that sticks out is what I had get hooked up in mid flight before. They are stronger, to be sure, but after a bad experience having my lines stuck together, I have to stick with the smooth edged ones like on my handles above. The only trouble with them is they get loose sometimes. You have to make a close inspection of the clips in your preflight checks.

Ah, I can see that happening now, not good. Then the squeeze style would be a better one,,with the smooth surface to it,,or one with a smooth surface in that area.
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