Cox Engines Forum
You are not logged in! Please login or register.

Logged in members see NO ADVERTISEMENTS!


What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Cox_ba12





Log in

I forgot my password

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine
by Coxfledgling Today at 3:55 am

» *Cox Engine of The Month* Submit your pictures! -December 2022-
by Admin Today at 12:46 am

» Let's design a model for one of our Cox engines.
by batjac Yesterday at 3:48 pm

» Stuka parts...
by latole Yesterday at 8:16 am

» NTSB Preliminary Report Wings Over Dallas B-17 Mid-Air
by GallopingGhostler Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:14 pm

» Identification of this part.
by Marleysky Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:31 pm

» Davis diesel head improvement
by robot797 Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:15 pm

» In search for the COX engine with the longest runtime on its clock
by balogh Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:01 pm

» .09/.15 NVA at last
by aspeed Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:12 am

» Indestructible Honda C90 Engine
by balogh Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:47 am

» wanted cox 010
by cstatman Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:45 pm

» Cox .010 tank backplate
by mikewipf Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:05 pm

Cox Engine of The Month
November-2022
cmulder's

"Throttle and muffler contraption"



PAST WINNERS
CEF Traveling Engine

Win This Engine!
Gallery


What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty
Live on Patrol


What's so great about inverted flight?

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  Cribbs74 Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:40 pm

Wow Ken!

I thought they only made an FAI .049. I guess I need to expand my search.
Cribbs74
Cribbs74
Moderator

2020 Supporter

2021 Supporter

2022 Supporter

Posts : 11852
Join date : 2011-10-24
Age : 48
Location : Tuttle, OK

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  RknRusty Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:55 pm

cribbs74 wrote:Hmm weird, the box says .049-.099

Your plans show a TD eh? Mine show a rear intake Rocket .09 as an optional engine and how to mount it.

The plans do say stunt,sport and combat so maybe if you were going to race the bean it would be OK. I'll probably just put a widow on mine or the RR1

Ron.
I looked at my Bean box today and sure enough. it says .049 - .099. And the plans show a Brodak MKII on the beam mount. A .09 seems too big for a 21" wingspan plane, kind of a mismatch, but I guess if the lines are long enough it'll work fine.

Given the choice, I'll probably build for non-tanked engines from now on. Most of my Bean crashes were when it sucked air at the top of a loop. The tanked engines always run dry while the fun light is still lit. I never learned when to quit.

_________________
Don't Panic!
...and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!


My Hot Rock & Blues Playlist
RknRusty
RknRusty
Rest In Peace
Rest In Peace

2020 Supporter

Posts : 10869
Join date : 2011-08-10
Age : 66
Location : South Carolina, USA

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  fit90 Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:22 pm

RknRusty wrote:I never learned when to quit.


Not always a bad thing. Perhaps that is one of the reasons you fit in here so well.

Bob
fit90
fit90
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1326
Join date : 2011-08-11
Location : Naples, Florida

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Watch out for those camera phones....

Post  John Goddard Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:53 am

'Somone' putting our new club trainer through it's paces couple weekends ago.
I managed to get the fin on the deck but didn't realise I was on camera.

OhOh I'm in for a 'talking to' next months meeting.
lol!

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Invert11
John Goddard
John Goddard
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2447
Join date : 2011-11-24
Age : 58
Location : Leyton North East London

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  SuperDave Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:05 am

Inverted flight is something many people have tired but few master.

In my evolution as a CL pilot I destroyed several Sterling S-3 Ringmasters before I got it right. The Ringmasters were patched together combat casualties that were sacrificed as my learning curve advanced. I don't believe that anyone can claim that inverted flight can be achieved with any confidence without similar sacrifice.

These were larger .35 planes on 60 foot lines which seemed to move slower than their 1/2A counterparts on much shorter lines. Setting up the plane with proper rudder offset and outboard wingtip weight are important too.

In short "there no gain without pain". The "pain" to be experienced depends on how badly you wish to learn to fly inverted. cheers
SuperDave
SuperDave
Rest In Peace
Rest In Peace

Posts : 3552
Join date : 2011-08-13
Location : Washington (state)

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  RknRusty Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:20 pm

I pretty much went right to it. I first did it with my Stuntman23. I was worried about confused muscle memory, but I found that when I could see the rudder pointing down, it just felt natural. The only problem is that turning the other direction makes me dizzy like a beginner. I guess the inner ear has to adapt to the change in direction. That was a surprise, so I could only fly a few laps at a time. But loops and 8s from inverted didn't bother me. I hit a tree limb flying my Streak upside down the other day, but it emerged from a spray of green confetti and kept on flying. I had wandered away from my marker.

_________________
Don't Panic!
...and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!


My Hot Rock & Blues Playlist
RknRusty
RknRusty
Rest In Peace
Rest In Peace

2020 Supporter

Posts : 10869
Join date : 2011-08-10
Age : 66
Location : South Carolina, USA

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  Cribbs74 Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:26 pm

I thought I would revisit this. I spend half my flights inverted anymore, outside loops are cake too. Practice makes perfect as they say now I just need to get better at some other stuff. My wingovers suck, I want to do a reverse one! I probably should start try to tackle overhead stuff too.

Control line rules!

Ron
Cribbs74
Cribbs74
Moderator

2020 Supporter

2021 Supporter

2022 Supporter

Posts : 11852
Join date : 2011-10-24
Age : 48
Location : Tuttle, OK

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  Kim Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:30 pm

CLOVER LEAF---CLOVER LEAF !!!!!  Then...REVERSE CLOVER LEAF---REVERSE CLOVER LEAF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kim
Kim
Top Poster
Top Poster

2020 Supporter

2021 Supporter

2022 Supporter

Posts : 8095
Join date : 2011-09-06
Location : South East Missouri

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  Cribbs74 Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:32 pm

Kim wrote:CLOVER LEAF---CLOVER LEAF !!!!!  Then...REVERSE CLOVER LEAF---REVERSE CLOVER LEAF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your a funny guy!!!! May be a while before I hit that. I will do it though! I'll probably be in my 50's, but I'll do it!

Ron
Cribbs74
Cribbs74
Moderator

2020 Supporter

2021 Supporter

2022 Supporter

Posts : 11852
Join date : 2011-10-24
Age : 48
Location : Tuttle, OK

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  RknRusty Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:49 pm

Next time I fly 1/2A, I'm going to do vertical 8s. No way in hell I'm ready to do it with the Shoestring yet. I might start from inverted at the top so the bottom loop is an insider. Or I might climb from normal flight into an S that sets me up for the top outside loop leading into the bottom insider. I flew it great in my mind, and then when I had the motions figured out, I shadow flew it in the kitchen and it didn't seem as easy.

I need to practice wingovers from inverted too. They are hard to get straight over the top. I thought I was, but an observer said I wasn't. It's an unnatural body position. I don't ant to fall over backwards.

_________________
Don't Panic!
...and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!


My Hot Rock & Blues Playlist
RknRusty
RknRusty
Rest In Peace
Rest In Peace

2020 Supporter

Posts : 10869
Join date : 2011-08-10
Age : 66
Location : South Carolina, USA

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  Cribbs74 Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:00 pm

I was thinking of inverted pull-outs. They look way cool.
Cribbs74
Cribbs74
Moderator

2020 Supporter

2021 Supporter

2022 Supporter

Posts : 11852
Join date : 2011-10-24
Age : 48
Location : Tuttle, OK

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  RknRusty Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:35 pm

cribbs74 wrote:I was thinking of inverted pull-outs. They look way cool.
Yeah, that's on my list too. Haven't done it yet. It's hard to do a level pullout with a fast twitchy 1/2A. I can fly wingovers with the SS much more neatly.

_________________
Don't Panic!
...and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!


My Hot Rock & Blues Playlist
RknRusty
RknRusty
Rest In Peace
Rest In Peace

2020 Supporter

Posts : 10869
Join date : 2011-08-10
Age : 66
Location : South Carolina, USA

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  Cribbs74 Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:16 pm

More line and bigger arc.  That's why it's easier in my opinion. Much slower.
Cribbs74
Cribbs74
Moderator

2020 Supporter

2021 Supporter

2022 Supporter

Posts : 11852
Join date : 2011-10-24
Age : 48
Location : Tuttle, OK

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  gcb Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:41 am

You might want to check out both the beginners and the full AMA stunt (Precision Aerobatics) pattern. A "proper" wingover starts from level flight, goes up for the wingover, pull out inverted, go half a lap inverted, then back to vertical for second wingover, this time pulling out to level flight.

A lot of doing stunts is the way you place your body. I still stumble around but if you watch some good stunt guys at a contest, watch THEM and not just the plane.

The problem most of us have is trying to stunt with a plane that is not properly trimmed. Trimming is half the battle...I guess staying off the ground is the other half. :-)

George
gcb
gcb
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 908
Join date : 2011-08-11
Location : Port Ewen, NY

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  gcb Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:14 am

Forgot to add some stuff in the last post:

Many (most) CL planes were designed before there was a TD .049. When they say .049-.09 for instance, they were talking about Cub .049 and .09, or engines of that vintage. A TD .049 may equal the Cub .09 for power.

Fox had a regular .049 that was average. Duke came out with a second version that was much better. The FAI .049 was a different engine. It was created for competition. I don't believe parts are interchangeable. I do not have the standard Fox .049 to compare.

Randall Hopkins and Richard Rikel (H&R engines) bought all the remaining parts for the FAI .049 from Fox and assembled them. Richard passed away, I'm not sure when, but Randall continued assembling the engines. I bought two of the FAI's  from him. They were test run with RPM figures included. You could exchange or order one that had not been run if you wanted it for a collection.

Randall eventually sold the company to Doug Martin. I believe Doug had some new parts and glow plugs made. He had plugs for the standard Fox .049, the FAI version, and the Fox .07. I have no idea if and where they are now available.

George

Here is a pic. The two left ones are the FAI .049 (with and without tank) and the right one is a Fox .07 (bought new in the mid fifties).

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Fox04910
gcb
gcb
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 908
Join date : 2011-08-11
Location : Port Ewen, NY

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  JPvelo Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:16 am

Ken Cook wrote: Remember one thing in regards to the Fox.09, it was very underpowered and very over rated. The Fox .049 - .07 on the other hand were very powerful and would do a tremendous job. I have a Fox Comet .07 now which is quite difficult to find plugs for and other parts. The .049 shares the same plug setup. The Fox .09 has a plug that is very different and difficult to find. Ken
I think I have some fox .049 plugs i could send your way.

Jim
JPvelo
JPvelo
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1963
Join date : 2011-12-02
Age : 55
Location : Phoenix

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  Cribbs74 Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:44 am

Jim I now have a Fox .07 and am .049. I could use a spare plug.

Ron
Cribbs74
Cribbs74
Moderator

2020 Supporter

2021 Supporter

2022 Supporter

Posts : 11852
Join date : 2011-10-24
Age : 48
Location : Tuttle, OK

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  JPvelo Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:48 am

cribbs74 wrote:Jim I now have a Fox .07 and am .049. I could use a spare plug.

Ron
I am out of town right now, will look for them Monday when I get home.
JPvelo
JPvelo
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1963
Join date : 2011-12-02
Age : 55
Location : Phoenix

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  RknRusty Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:10 am

Drag this to just before 00:35 and watch his body position when he does the wingover in the advanced pattern.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GXFelZaO9LI#!

_________________
Don't Panic!
...and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!


My Hot Rock & Blues Playlist
RknRusty
RknRusty
Rest In Peace
Rest In Peace

2020 Supporter

Posts : 10869
Join date : 2011-08-10
Age : 66
Location : South Carolina, USA

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  Cribbs74 Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:29 pm

Looks so easy in theory. Doing it is another matter. I need to figure out the "jerk" to get the plane to go from level to snap upright. Mine looks like a big smooth transition. Longer lines would slow things down a bit.

Some of my problem is the dumb trees as I worry about snagging them. This forces me to fly up higher. I would like to start all my maneuvers straight out and level from me.
Cribbs74
Cribbs74
Moderator

2020 Supporter

2021 Supporter

2022 Supporter

Posts : 11852
Join date : 2011-10-24
Age : 48
Location : Tuttle, OK

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  RknRusty Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:50 pm

cribbs74 wrote:Looks so easy in theory. Doing it is another matter. I need to figure out the "jerk" to get the plane to go from level to snap upright...
That's actually the one part I can do. I don't do any jerk, just full up with my wrist. Maybe try a little tail weight, that might make the turns tighter.

_________________
Don't Panic!
...and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!


My Hot Rock & Blues Playlist
RknRusty
RknRusty
Rest In Peace
Rest In Peace

2020 Supporter

Posts : 10869
Join date : 2011-08-10
Age : 66
Location : South Carolina, USA

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  gcb Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:51 pm

RknRusty wrote:Drag this to just before 00:35 and watch his body position when he does the wingover in the advanced pattern.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GXFelZaO9LI#!

Bear in mind as you watch that both of these gents are former National Champions and this flight is at a NW Regionals in 2011...you are watching a couple of the best flyers.

George
gcb
gcb
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 908
Join date : 2011-08-11
Location : Port Ewen, NY

Back to top Go down

What's so great about inverted flight? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's so great about inverted flight?

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum