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Frozen Shut

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Frozen Shut

Post  microflitedude on Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:20 pm

I know this a simple question, and has been asked time and time again, but I can't seem to figure it out.

I recently acquired an RC .049 Medallion. It turns over with decent compression, but still has a lot of gunk on the inside. I was able to get the drive plate, collet, and carb off. (after soaking in fuel for 2 days and heat applied) However, I can't seem to get the cylinder, glow head, or backplate apart. The cylinder does not have any wrench reliefs. I've tried everything, soaking, heat, strap wrench, etc. It won't budge. I'm trying not to apply too much pressure, I've made that mistake too many times.

Thanks for any help you may have.

Matt
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re: cylinder

Post  happydad on Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:50 pm

microflitedude wrote:I know this a simple question, and has been asked time and time again, but I can't seem to figure it out.

I recently acquired an RC .049 Medallion. It turns over with decent compression, but still has a lot of gunk on the inside. I was able to get the drive plate, collet, and carb off. (after soaking in fuel for 2 days and heat applied) However, I can't seem to get the cylinder, glow head, or backplate apart. The cylinder does not have any wrench reliefs. I've tried everything, soaking, heat, strap wrench, etc. It won't budge. I'm trying not to apply too much pressure, I've made that mistake too many times.

Thanks for any help you may have.

Matt

i've been using the suggested method of heat and leather strap, or other material, wrapped around the head at least twice. also around the case to keep from scoring it as well. soak, heat, try again. on my last really stuck engine it took about 2 weeks in fresh, old, fuel. and several attempts. remember patience is a virtue and so are unscored/unscratched engines.
eventually the backplate came off after additional soaking. on the glow head i found the wrench with the circle cutout with indents for the glow head worked the best, not the wrench with the glow head cutout on the side like a semi-circle.
also everytime i soaked the parts i would clean them with a soft tooth brush as far as it would reach inside the engine/cylinder/etc.
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  crankbndr on Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:00 pm

Lately I've soaked the really stuck ones in very hot water, I fill a coffee cup with water, the microwave has a setting for "hot water" that brings it almost to boil.
Drop the engine in a let it cook for a while, when I take them out they are loose. I've had good luck on the cylinders using the heat sinks from the car engines.
Tape the cylinder first then clamp heat sink on. You can even get a wrench on the sink for more leverage.
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  SuperDave on Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:04 pm

No problems freeing stuck engines here.

An overnight soak in Hoppe's #9 followed by the application of mild heat from a butane torch. (Since the Hoppe's is flamable be careful using the torch. Be sure that the engine is totally dry before you apply the heat)

I always have a large towel handy to smother and flames.
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  microflitedude on Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:16 pm

Thanks for the advice. I think I will try the hot water first. About how many minutes should I cook it? (without the engine in of course Very Happy ) 2-3 minutes?
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  SuperDave on Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:23 pm

Matt:

Better to let is simmer overnite. 2-3 minutes is rushing it big time IMO.

Your patience will be rewarded.
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  crankbndr on Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:24 pm

Take the water just short of a boil, if it boils let it cool for a few minutes the dunk it. A coffee cup of water should boil pretty quick, pick you Moms best cup
for this. Let it soak for 10 min.


Last edited by crankbndr on Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  microflitedude on Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:30 pm

I'm not sure how to simmer it over night, leaving a gas stove on that long is just too dangerous IMO. My crock pot broke, so I can't use that.

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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  RknRusty on Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:17 pm

Go to the Goodwill store and get a crockpot for a couple of bucks.

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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  SuperDave on Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:51 am

And while your at it shop by your local gun shop and pick up some Hoppe's #9.

Did I mention that previously? lol! Your household will just LOVE the aroma. Mad

(You'd better use Hoppe's outdoors)
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  WingingIt74 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:08 am

Are you making Cox Stew?


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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  ahrma_581 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:31 pm

Yeah, if you're going to fire up a crockpot you should find one of those 40 engines for 40 dollars deals and then fill it up....
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  microflitedude on Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:41 pm

I simmered it on the stove for about 2 hours. Still could not get it open. Maybe I'll just drop it on some fuel and come back 10 years later. Very Happy The poor thing has a growing hatred for me.

My local store wanted 10 bucks for a 5oz bottle of Hoppe's. A little steep, I think. They closed up shop shortly after...

The previous owner used the engine to power a glider. It had a 7x4 prop on it. Is it possible it overheated and some parts expanded?
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  dckrsn on Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:09 pm

Gotta side with Dave here, Matt.
I've been using Hoppe's #9 for 2+years, and
I no longer have any disassembly problems.
Good soak, heat the case with a small torch, and
use a strap wrench(maybe home-made) and DONE.
If you can't find #9 at a reasonable price and just
want it done, send it here. I'd be more than happy
to do it for you, or I can send you a little #9.
Bob
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  Cribbs74 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:12 pm

microflitedude wrote:I simmered it on the stove for about 2 hours. Still could not get it open. Maybe I'll just drop it on some fuel and come back 10 years later. Very Happy The poor thing has a growing hatred for me.

My local store wanted 10 bucks for a 5oz bottle of Hoppe's. A little steep, I think. They closed up shop shortly after...

The previous owner used the engine to power a glider. It had a 7x4 prop on it. Is it possible it overheated and some parts expanded?

Even if it overheated, I doubt it would cause the parts to thermally weld themselves together. More than likely it was overtightened and combined with the goo it's hard to get apart. While I don't use Hoppes on my engines you can find it in any gun shop. Academy sells it too. Heck I even think I saw it in WalMart. If you have a heat gun that always works for me.

Ron
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  Jason_WI on Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:03 pm

Engines come apart by themselves when overheated. Shocked

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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  SuperDave on Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:04 pm

microflitedude wrote:I simmered it on the stove for about 2 hours. Still could not get it open. Maybe I'll just drop it on some fuel and come back 10 years later. Very Happy The poor thing has a growing hatred for me.

My local store wanted 10 bucks for a 5oz bottle of Hoppe's. A little steep, I think. They closed up shop shortly after...

The previous owner used the engine to power a glider. It had a 7x4 prop on it. Is it possible it overheated and some parts expanded?

Matt:

You grossly exagerate the cost of Hoppe's. No wonder the gun shop went out of business. Try Cabela's where it is much less expensive. I buy it for much kess than you state. Five ounces is a LOT of Hoppe's.

You need to come to grips with the fact that modeling is NOT an inexpensive hobby. Either "pay the freight" or get out of it entirely. You can ruin and engine by trying to take the "shortcuts" or do what others and I have advised. Use Hoppe's and mild heat to free seized parts.

E'nuf said.
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  microflitedude on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:16 pm

SuperDave wrote:
microflitedude wrote:I simmered it on the stove for about 2 hours. Still could not get it open. Maybe I'll just drop it on some fuel and come back 10 years later. Very Happy The poor thing has a growing hatred for me.

My local store wanted 10 bucks for a 5oz bottle of Hoppe's. A little steep, I think. They closed up shop shortly after...

The previous owner used the engine to power a glider. It had a 7x4 prop on it. Is it possible it overheated and some parts expanded?

Matt:

You grossly exagerate the cost of Hoppe's. No wonder the gun shop went out of business. Try Cabela's where it is much less expensive. I buy it for much kess than you state. Five ounces is a LOT of Hoppe's.

You need to come to grips with the fact that modeling is NOT an inexpensive hobby. Either "pay the freight" or get out of it entirely. You can ruin and engine by trying to take the "shortcuts" or do what others and I have advised. Use Hoppe's and mild heat to free seized parts.

E'nuf said.

I didn't exaggerate anything - the store manager did, and he paid for it. I'm just stating what I saw. I'll see if Wallyworld carries the stuff.

Like I said before, I am taking this slow and not taking any more chances. This is a nice little engine and I would hate to damage it.

I've got a "grip" on what this hobby is, and have been plodding along for about 5 years. (with a lot of help from friends Smile )
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  andrew on Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:46 am

Hoppe's makes several solvents, generally selling for less than a $1/oz -- you should be able to find it reasonably priced locally.

If you're having difficulty finding it, a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF also makes a good penetrating oil, but needs to be in a sealed container if you're soaking the engine to prevent the acetone from gassing off.

I've always been hesitant to soak or "simmer" an engine in anything other than a petroleum based product (antifreeze is OK). If the engine is locked up and you introduce water into the case via SPI or an open intake port, you may find that you get rust damage before you get it opened and oiled. The hot water will break down the castor coating on the crank and may expose bare metal to water damage.
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  RknRusty on Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:44 am

andrew wrote:...The hot water will break down the castor coating on the crank and may expose bare metal to water damage.
Agreed, and I'd add that dissolved metals and minerals in the water can react and make permanent deposits and possibly etching.

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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  PV Pilot on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:50 am

I wouldn't boil it in water. You have dissimilar metals there that can lock together by corrosion(wrong word). If water gets into the internals and it sits for awhile, it will make it into a paperweight. It will be petrified locked, you'll never get it apart. You might have that already, before you ever got started or had the engine in your possession.

Wrap the cylinder with a thick rag Matt,, and heat the engine case to really hot with a hairdryer or heat gun. The trick is to heat the case faster than the cylinder can soak up that heat. you'll get rapid metal expansion and it should release the cylinder. I am sure you know all this.

Another trick is to reverse that process. Heat the whole engine to really hot, wrap the rag around the now hot engine lower case, pick up a can of aerosol cleaner and quickly blast the cylinder cold. Work fast.
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  EXModelEngines on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:50 pm

Another thing I like to try is to mount the engine to a block of wood (since it is a TD/Medallion beam mount you may have to rout out a piece of wood) then put the block of wood into a vise. After that apply a little heat from a torch (be careful not to hold too long on engine) at the area you need to remove. Now use the strap wrench. You should have much better leverage.

Good Luck!

Matt
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  RknRusty on Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:54 pm

Something that always works for me is to use the oft-maligned exhaust port fork of the Cox wrench. If you trap the whole wrench, including the fork, sideways in your vice so the fork can not spread, then slide the cylinder ports all the way into it and turn the crankcase, it will come loose with no damage to the ports. Each side of the vice will be pressing against the full length of the thin edges of the wrench.
Make sure the wrench has no burrs, and as added protection, you can buffer it with a T-shirt rag. The truth is, if the fork is held the way I describe, there is no way it can possibly touch the internal edge of the port.

That being said, I take no responsibility if my instructions are misinterpreted and you ruin the cylinder.

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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  fit90 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:19 pm

A little trick we used to remove frozen exhaust studs from cylinder heads was to drill a hole through the stud and then just before trying to turn the stud we would shoot a blast of refrigerant such as R-12, R-134a or what ever is available anymore, down the hole in the stud. Same but reverse idea as heating the case.
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Re: Frozen Shut

Post  dckrsn on Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:49 pm

fit90 wrote:A little trick we used to remove frozen exhaust studs from cylinder heads was to drill a hole through the stud and then just before trying to turn the stud we would shoot a blast of refrigerant such as R-12, R-134a or what ever is available anymore, down the hole in the stud. Same but reverse idea as heating the case.
Showing your age with the R-12 there Bob.
Probably close to a grand for a 30 pound can today, if you can find it.
Most forgiving refrigerant ever, and cheap as dirt in it's day.
Was often used like compressed air to clean condensers.
Bob
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