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EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Babe_b10
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EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Empty

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE

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EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Empty What material is the stabilizer?

Post  happydad on Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:03 am

a betancourt wrote:Here are more photos of the plane.

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Whatsa10


a beta court: what material is the stabilizer made from in the view shown?

It looks like about 1/8inch foam material? 3mm? Is the wing made from the same material? Maybe thicker, 5 to 8mm?  

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EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Empty Re: EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:25 am

happydad wrote:
944_Jim wrote:
rsv1cox wrote:
Wish I had some pictures of the red reconstruction JW when I got it.  Fuselage badly bent ( straightened with heat), firewall disintegrating, about 3 square inches of the wing left, but they all went away when my computer crashed a couple of years ago.  The hard drive survives but I have got to find somebody to extract it's information.  

Bob,
I do IT.
There are (roughly) $25 hard drive adapters that let an internal hard drive be used as an external hard drive. We can work out the details if you PM.
I'll need the model number and manufacturer of the hard drive in order to suggest the appropriate adapter. Once the drive is connected, it will show up like a thumb drive on your computer. Once connected, you may have to adjust file permissions to take over "ownership" of those files. This isn't a hard issue to tackle, and we could work via phone to manage the task. Note I didn't say "project." It really is fairly easy.
This assumes the drive is still good.

944_Jim: Nice to know. I used to do a lot of things among which was repair Dell laptop computers, and desktops. All the desktops are long gone. Is there anything that can hook up another laptop HDD to my MacBook Air, just keeding. The 256GB SSD goes fast, it was my daughters and she needed money. The only other issue is the “N” and “RETURN” keys are intermittent. Key tops new, but the tiny little rubber cap is $10 plus shipping. As if the $10 wasn’t enough. I even tried a flash drive, SSM?, into the battery charge port and it works, but the battery is low after 2 hours, so it was only $200 I shouldn’t complain.
Hijack over.

p.s. I am also working on drawings for both the JW and Red Widow, but lacking time right now.
   I am trying to tile the drawings of the pictures shown above in posts, with permissions, and upscaling to 200%, then whatever % equals 21inch wingspan for the Red Widow and 19 for the JW, I think.
   Anyway upscale the tiled drawings until full size per posted wingspan and fuselage length. I think I can, I think I can. More when I have time.

Happydad RC Plane   United States     Old Bugger Old Bugger

Jim, Thanks for the offer. I am not computer savvy having been born in the stone age of computer science about the time when Alan Turing was constructing the beast that would solve the riddle of the German Enigma code in WW2.

Presently my son has the hard drive, give me time to get those numbers from him and I will get back to you.

And HD, are you going to share those drawings? My photographic approach I'm afraid will not hack it.

Bob
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EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Empty Re: EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE

Post  a betancourt on Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:00 pm

happydad wrote:
a betancourt wrote:Here are more photos of the plane.

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Whatsa10


a beta court: what material is the stabilizer made from in the view shown?

It looks like about 1/8inch foam material? 3mm? Is the wing made from the same material? Maybe thicker, 5 to 8mm?  

Happydad RC Plane   United States    Old Bugger Old Bugger

The stab and wing are 1/8" painted hard balsa.
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EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Empty what is it?

Post  happydad on Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:01 pm

a betancourt wrote:
happydad wrote:
a betancourt wrote:Here are more photos of the plane.

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Whatsa10


a beta court: what material is the stabilizer made from in the view shown?

It looks like about 1/8inch foam material? 3mm? Is the wing made from the same material? Maybe thicker, 5 to 8mm?  

Happydad RC Plane   United States    Old Bugger Old Bugger

The stab and wing are 1/8" painted hard balsa.

a betancourt: what is the item I have pointed to with a white arrow?

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Redwid10
Is it a locking mechanism for stabilizer-elevator assembly?

i don't like to ask too many questions at one time.

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EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Empty Re: EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:53 pm

That would be a significant difference, my two Jim Walter originals and my repro are 1/16" balsa on both wing and elevator.

That area on mine appears to be just pegs, perhaps for a rubber band or some sort of launch restraining mechanism.

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 P1010403


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EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Empty Re: EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE

Post  a betancourt on Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:59 pm

happydad wrote:
a betancourt wrote:
happydad wrote:
a betancourt wrote:Here are more photos of the plane.

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Whatsa10


a beta court: what material is the stabilizer made from in the view shown?

It looks like about 1/8inch foam material? 3mm? Is the wing made from the same material? Maybe thicker, 5 to 8mm?  

Happydad RC Plane   United States    Old Bugger Old Bugger

The stab and wing are 1/8" painted hard balsa.

a betancourt: what is the item I have pointed to with a white arrow?

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Redwid10
Is it a locking mechanism for stabilizer-elevator assembly?

i don't like to ask too many questions at one time.

happydad. RC Plane     United States       Old Bugger

The stab is fixed to the fuselage with rubber bands. The stab has two holes and the fuselage the two pegs, a small rubber band passes from the holes through the stab and are fixed on the pegs. The photos do not clearly show this since the previous owner fixed the stab with thread, I will take the thread out and will use a rubber band like the original.

More than happy to answer any questions or to send any photos or information.
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EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Empty Re: EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE

Post  a betancourt on Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:35 pm

a betancourt wrote:
happydad wrote:
a betancourt wrote:
happydad wrote:
a betancourt wrote:Here are more photos of the plane.

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Whatsa10


a beta court: what material is the stabilizer made from in the view shown?

It looks like about 1/8inch foam material? 3mm? Is the wing made from the same material? Maybe thicker, 5 to 8mm?  

Happydad RC Plane   United States    Old Bugger Old Bugger

The stab and wing are 1/8" painted hard balsa.

a betancourt: what is the item I have pointed to with a white arrow?

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Redwid10
Is it a locking mechanism for stabilizer-elevator assembly?

i don't like to ask too many questions at one time.

happydad. RC Plane     United States       Old Bugger

The stab is fixed to the fuselage with rubber bands. The stab has two holes and the fuselage the two pegs, a small rubber band passes from the holes through the stab and are fixed on the pegs. The photos do not clearly show this since the previous owner fixed the stab with thread, I will take the thread out and will use a rubber band like the original.

More than happy to answer any questions or to send any photos or information.


Are you sure that the wing and stab are 1/16" on your plane? That seems to thin and prone to warping.

My original Firebaby, the one marketed by Lodela Cox, also had 1/8" stab and wing.

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EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Empty Re: EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:33 pm

Yes, pretty close.  My calipers read .068 on both wing and horizontal stab.    1/16" = .063.

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 P1010404

And yes warping is a problem.

Bob
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EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Empty It almost looks like the stab is adjustable, some.

Post  happydad on Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:33 pm

a betancourt wrote:
a betancourt wrote:
happydad wrote:
a betancourt wrote:
happydad wrote:
a betancourt wrote:Here are more photos of the plane.

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Whatsa10


a beta court: what material is the stabilizer made from in the view shown?

It looks like about 1/8inch foam material? 3mm? Is the wing made from the same material? Maybe thicker, 5 to 8mm?  

Happydad RC Plane   United States    Old Bugger Old Bugger

The stab and wing are 1/8" painted hard balsa.

a betancourt: what is the item I have pointed to with a white arrow?

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Redwid10
Is it a locking mechanism for stabilizer-elevator assembly?

i don't like to ask too many questions at one time.

happydad. RC Plane     United States       Old Bugger

The stab is fixed to the fuselage with rubber bands. The stab has two holes and the fuselage the two pegs, a small rubber band passes from the holes through the stab and are fixed on the pegs. The photos do not clearly show this since the previous owner fixed the stab with thread, I will take the thread out and will use a rubber band like the original.

More than happy to answer any questions or to send any photos or information.


Are you sure that the wing and stab are 1/16" on your plane? That seems to thin and prone to warping.

My original Firebaby, the one marketed by Lodela Cox, also had 1/8" stab and wing.


a betancourt: It almost looks like the stabilizer is adjustable fore and aft? similar to the wing in a different picture. The old TD-4 plane let you move the wing fore and aft some, and adjust the attitude of the motor up and down. It was held together with big rubber bands, sorry no pictures.
   My parents threw away my prop rod car, TD-4 plane and my water wizard boat when i went into the US Air Force in 1966. UGH.

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Post  a betancourt on Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:49 pm

Is not really adustable, since the fuselage is from the Firebaby and the stab was much wider than the one in the Viuda Negra the slot is much longer than needed.


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Post  a betancourt on Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:51 pm

rsv1cox wrote:Yes, pretty close.  My calipers read .068 on both wing and horizontal stab.    1/16" = .063.

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 P1010404

And yes warping is a problem.

Bob

Too thin, I have never seen a 1/16" wing on a 049 airplane before.

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Post  a betancourt on Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:30 pm

Here a Lodela Cox prop, if you see carefully on the white label you will see that this prop was sold as direct replacement for the PT-19 and Firebaby.

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Cox_lo10
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Post  rsv1cox on Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:13 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:Wish I could trace that bat wing out and reproduce it in balsa. I could knock the whole thing out for $15 to include an actual BW. Decals I can do also.

I did mine with zero dollar outlay Ron.

Scrap balsa, on hand BW engine, SIG airfoil wing, lustrekote dope B&W, and all hardware.  Levent did a great job on the decals.  

Tail wheel and apply decals left to do.

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 P1010419
EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 P1010418
EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Scan_249
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EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Empty Looks great!

Post  happydad on Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:44 pm

rsv1cox wrote:
Cribbs74 wrote:Wish I could trace that bat wing out and reproduce it in balsa. I could knock the whole thing out for $15 to include an actual BW. Decals I can do also.

I did mine with zero dollar outlay Ron.

Scrap balsa, on hand BW engine, SIG airfoil wing, lustrekote dope B&W, and all hardware.  Levent did a great job on the decals.  

Tail wheel and apply decals left to do.

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 P1010419
EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 P1010418
EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Scan_249

rsc1cox: the decals look great. The whole plane looks great. Are you going to publish the decals and the data on the plane? I have just been way to busy.
I have some data on the JW wing and on the Red Widow wing,
but no complete plane. Clapping Clapping Clapping Clapping you win. Great job.

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Post  a betancourt on Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:42 pm

rsv1cox wrote:
Cribbs74 wrote:Wish I could trace that bat wing out and reproduce it in balsa. I could knock the whole thing out for $15 to include an actual BW. Decals I can do also.

I did mine with zero dollar outlay Ron.

Scrap balsa, on hand BW engine, SIG airfoil wing, lustrekote dope B&W, and all hardware.  Levent did a great job on the decals.  

Tail wheel and apply decals left to do.

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 P1010419
EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 P1010418
EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Scan_249

Excelent!

It will fly very well.

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Post  rsv1cox on Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:45 am

I didn't know we were running a contest HD. If I did I might have tried harder. Smile

I already have plans for another one, only this time use 3/16" balsa for the fuselage instead of 1/8" and SIG's 4" airfoil vice the 3" I used on this one requiring a 1/4" add on the trailing edge. Next one will cost me for balsa mostly from SIG so I hope they have their balsa inventory back up. I owe Kim a Zipper model too, might as well order the balsa for that too. Kim sent me his tracings and plans for his 10% up build.

This BW airplane is nose heavy with the BW engine sticking out there. If it ever does see air time it will be with a standard Babe Bee.

Levent did the decals and generously shared them. I could never have done them to his high standard. I'm going to use water slide on the wing and white backed decals for the tail, necessary like the original due to the black background.

Did the controls this morning, different bell-crank than the original but it will work.
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Post  NEW222 on Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:14 pm

Simply amazing there Bob. You knocked another one out of the park!
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Post  rsv1cox on Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:55 pm

NEW222 wrote:Simply amazing there Bob. You knocked another one out of the park!

Thanks Chancey. Levent's the hero on this one. It would be nothing without the decals. In fact, most of my efforts would be substantially less without inputs from the CEF peanut gallery.

Bob
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EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Empty don't mean to change subject, but this is similar...

Post  happydad on Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:47 am

all: I don't want to change the subject of the Cox Black Widow, (Red Widow?), but has anyone done any measurements on the PT-19 to make a balsa version? I know someone made a copy(?) of the PT-19, but was it a replica like that done with the Black Widow? I saw a PT-19 on the bay tonite and got some pics of the wing, stabilizer and rudder, sort of.

I do not know the measurements of the wing, the stabilizer or the rudder. Does anyone have any data on those? I can start another Thread topic if there is interest.


EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Pt-19-11
wing plus

EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Pt-19-12
stabilizer and rudder

anyone interested??

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Post  944_Jim on Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:27 am

HappyDad,
Sterling made a PT19 kit. One of the members here used the plans (found on Outerzone) to make a flat wing/profile fuselage model. ISTR all outlines were used full size off the plan sheet.
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t12133-my-pt-19-entry-for-the-official-international-cox-pt-19-fly-it-if-you-got-it-day

Another guy designed a coroplast PT that really looks the part. His plans make a full-size copy. That particular version was also showcased here.
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t7901-my-take-on-keith-morgans-pt-19-trainer

Maybe one of these is what you are thinking about?
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Post  Levent Suberk on Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:14 am

Happydad if you want decal sheet for PT19 then let me know the plan link.
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EXTREMELY RARE COX THIMBLE DROME PROTOTYPE "BLACK WIDOW" GAS MODEL AIRPLANE - Page 3 Empty Thanks

Post  happydad on Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:31 am

944_Jim wrote:HappyDad,
Sterling made a PT19 kit. One of the members here used the plans (found on Outerzone) to make a flat wing/profile fuselage model.  ISTR all outlines were used full size off the plan sheet.
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t12133-my-pt-19-entry-for-the-official-international-cox-pt-19-fly-it-if-you-got-it-day

Another guy designed a coroplast PT that really looks the part. His plans make a full-size copy. That particular version was also showcased here.
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t7901-my-take-on-keith-morgans-pt-19-trainer

Maybe one of these is what you are thinking about?

I wasn’t sure, but now I remember both. I am favoring the Coroplast version. Now if only I could find some. Anyone know of a source, or is it mentioned in the articles?

Can’t sleep. Went surfing with my youngest daughter and my 2 grandsons and had the best time in many years. I live too far from the ocean to drive every weekend. I used to live next to a lifeguard station before I got married. Many years ago.

I need to go slope soaring near the lake here. In the afternoons it gets pretty good. I haven’t done that since 2016 after my 2nd hip rep,acement, the doctor said he could hear them creaking.

Thanks for all the info guys.

Happydad RC Plane  Old Bugger     United States Sleeping at Computer
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Post  Levent Suberk on Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:17 am

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Post  Levent Suberk on Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:19 am

Interesting all red Canadian Cox PT19:

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t3540-canadian-pt-19
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Post  Levent Suberk on Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:22 am

Hope that Bob don't say anything about hijacking the Black Widow thread Very Happy
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