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Baby Brothers

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Thinking Baby Brothers

Post  batjac Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:16 am

Well, after Duke let me fly his Wing Master and Ringmaster last week, I've been bitten by the C/L bug.  DARN YOU, DUKE! Devil  So, I downloaded plans for the Baby Ringmaster and Beginner Ringmaster.  I finally got the time to cut the wood, so I'll be starting the build.  It took a couple of evenings since I don't have ready access to my scroll saw and had to do it the old fashioned way by cutting them out with an Xacto knife.  

This won't be a build thread, as that's been done a few times already.  This'll just be a place for me to ask questions, as the only C/L planes I flew as a kid were Cox RTF's, and I've only scratch built R/C for the last 30 years.  I'm sure there're a few tips and tricks I'll need to learn.  And, as these are intro planes for getting back into C/L, I'm not going to work too hard on the finish for them as they'll be getting beat to crap.  Just spray paint on the fuselages and Monokote for the Baby wing.

For the Beginner I've followed the drawings pretty much.  The only thing different is the 1/8" spruce I'm putting on the L.E. and using the Baby Ringmaster control horn on the elevator as I think it looks cool.  This'll get a Babe Bee.
Baby Brothers DSCN0525_zps2d73f4f3


For the Baby, the only change is to use 1/4" spruce for the leading edge since I have about a dozen sticks of it.  This'll get a Silver Bee.
Baby Brothers DSCN0526_zpse3175181


The first question is about making leadouts.  Any web pages with pics on how to properly make them?  I did a search on here and didn't find what I was looking for.


The Noob Mark
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  OVERLORD Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:17 am

Hi Mark,

Have a look on this page. It has drawings on how to make the lead out eyes. Just scroll down a bit. Explanation is in French but for the drawings, that doesn't make much difference.

http://www.retroplane.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3561&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

This is only one method.

Happy building,

Lieven
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  pkrankow Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:11 am

For lead out guides take some pop-rivets, say 1/8 inch, knock the nail out of them and glue them into the wing where they belong.  You probably want to rough them with some sandpaper first.  Aluminum or steel shouldn't make much difference.

On the beginner since the guides are drilled through the wing brace this is super easy.  



On open-lead wings I have been tying an eyelet (available from Brodak) to make a large loop with heavy  spectra fishing line.  The loop has to be big enough to go in, through the bell crank, out, and pass the eyelet through.  Since AMA recommends a doubled Uni-knot this scheme works very easy.  Since the eyelets are tied on off the airplane getting the lengths very very similar is quite easy, but may take a couple tries.  Using Dacron is the same basic deal.  

Be extra careful with dacron or spectra around a heat gun or iron.  

On the baby you probably should use brass tube as indicated.  Deburr and slightly flare the insides with something like a Phillips screwdriver.

You may want to just order a wire lead out kit from Brodak, or Bernie at coxengines.ca for the Baby, but you can use steel fishing cable or solid steel wire just the same.  The recommended diameters I would have to look up.  (AMA's website again, under document downloads http://www.modelaircraft.org/documents.aspx#competitions control line rules should have it)  

With solid wire you wrap the wire around a mandrel (10p nail or similar) and then carefully wrap the wire onto itself 6+ turns.  With the bellcrank you bend carefully through and create an oblong eye and do the same.

Phil
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  duke.johnson Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:34 pm

Hey Mark.
Your leadouts for the small stuff is real easy. I don't know about you, but I couldn't read Lieven's link.lol!  Although I can almost figure out what these guys are talking about.
Baby Brothers Fb_des10
lol! 


Use .018" to .021" braided line, to make your loops/connections, I use copper or aluimium tubing to make crimp fittings. Running the line through the tubing, then the hole in the bellcrank, back through the tubing, bend a 180 in the wire back towards the bellcrank on the outside of the tubing, then back another 180 through the inside of the of the tube agian, and then crimp in two or three places on the tube. For the other end, same thing just no bellcrank. I can shoot you a picture if you would like, when I'm home.
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  batjac Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:46 pm

duke.johnson wrote:Hey Mark.  
Your leadouts for the small stuff is real easy.  I don't know about you, but I couldn't read Lieven's link.lol!  Although I can almost figure out what these guys are talking about.
Baby Brothers Fb_des10
lol! 
.

Well, it's been about 35 years since my high school French, but what it seems to say is, "Lift your leg really high or you'll catch the lines."

I think I see what you're talking about, but a pic would be helpful, Duke.

The Student Mark
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  duke.johnson Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:08 pm

Aaaaaaah Daniel Son. I'll take a picture, I have friends over for dinner tonight though. Should happen tonight. Happy to hear you caught the C/L Bird Flu.
Contagious Duke
Baby Brothers Images10
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  navion34 Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:28 pm

batjac wrote:

Well, it's been about 35 years since my high school French, but what it seems to say is, "Lift your leg really high or you'll catch the lines."

Absolutely, right answer
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  RknRusty Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:56 pm

Thanks for the translation. I was dying to know. Wish we had babes like that where I fly.

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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  batjac Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:25 pm

I should really learn to be patient.  I got impatient waiting for my order from Bernie to arrive with my 1/2A engine mount, so I went ahead and made one up last night for the Beginner.  Wouldn't you know, I just went to the mailbox and there was Bernie's package... Rolling Eyes   I guess I can use the engine mount on the Baby Ringmaster instead.

Baby Brothers DSCN0542_zps257babca

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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  RknRusty Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:05 pm

Yours will work just as well as the clip-on plastic one, and it will look better.
However when I make a wood mount, I usually make the side braces taper all the way back past the LE so the nose doesn't snap off in a crash. You don't have that option with a clip-on mount.

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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  batjac Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:49 pm

RknRusty wrote:However when I make a wood mount, I usually make the side braces taper all the way back past the LE so the nose doesn't snap off in a crash. You don't have that option with a clip-on mount.

That's why I put 1/32 ply doublers covering the L.E. and the T.E. of the wing.  I figured those'd be likely failure points.  I was also a little leery of the 1/16 tail surfaces, so I reinforced the mating surfaces on the stab/elev.

So the Beginner is done and ready for paint. I haven't decided whether I'll keep the muffler or not, but I'll decide by the time it's ready to fly.  Now to start on the Baby.

Baby Brothers DSCN0546_zpsd0921618

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Last edited by batjac on Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  sdjjadk Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:12 am

Excellent build so far. However, it looks like there isn't much offset on the rudder from looking at your last picture so I'd recommend using washers to shim the engine and give it some right thrust.

Shawn
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  batjac Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:51 am

sdjjadk wrote:Excellent build so far. However, it looks like there isn't much offset on the rudder from looking at your last picture so I'd recommend using washers to shim the engine and give it some right thrust.
Shawn

Thanks for looking out for me, Shawn.  But I did build in a little right thrust when I glued on the firewall. You might be able to make it out in this pic.  Between the fin and the firewall, I should have enough right thrust.  If not, testing will show me I need a little more to keep it tight on the lines.

Baby Brothers DSCN0543_zpsc0d2eeeb

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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  RknRusty Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:10 am

Any chance you can add a little blocked gusset between the wing and the nacelle to further protect the nose from lateral movement?

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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  duke.johnson Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:23 am

Nice job Mark! Hope you and the family can come up to Chehalis, Wa. for the Ringmaster Flyathon in October with these planes.
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  sdjjadk Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:16 pm

batjac wrote:

Thanks for looking out for me, Shawn.  But I did build in a little right thrust when I glued on the firewall.  You might be able to make it out in this pic.  Between the fin and the firewall, I should have enough right thrust.  If not, testing will show me I need a little more to keep it tight on the lines.



The Offset Mark
Looks nice. Keep up the good work. Smile

Shawn
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  batjac Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:59 am

Well, I put the third coat of paint on the Beginner this evening.  After it's had 24 hours to dry I'll reassemble it.  I'll get pics when it's together.

The Baby wing is framed up and end ribs glued in place, but work's been a pain so I haven't had time to work any more on it.  Maybe tomorrow evening.

But, I just remembered that there's the third Brother to cut out and assemble, the Baby Bipe.  I'll print those plans out when I get more paper.  I've run out of paper printing various C/L and R/C plans lately.

The Tired Mark
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  duke.johnson Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:30 am

Keep your chin up Tired Mark! You should think about building the little sister, the Micro Ringmaster. I'm going to build one for a .020 pee wee.
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  pkrankow Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:39 am

I built a Ringmaster PT bipe, but haven't flown it because I haven't set up a way to launch yet, and haven't had useful assistance either.

It is a sharp looking plane. I did all yellow, but could use some detail.

Phil
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  duke.johnson Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:32 pm

Phil
What's the PT Bipe? I can't recall. I've seen the Beginner bipe, Baby Bipe, S-1 Size Bipe, and the Tri-plane Ringmasters.
Duke
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  batjac Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:34 pm

duke.johnson wrote:Keep your chin up Tired Mark!  You should think about building the little sister, the Micro Ringmaster.  I'm going to build one for a .020 pee wee.  

I haven't seen the drawings for the Micro Ringmaster. Where would I find those? I've got a .020 with nothing to do.

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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  duke.johnson Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:48 pm

Go to Stunthanger's vendor corner under PDK-Pat King kits
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  pkrankow Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:51 pm

"primary trainer" it is all slab parts.

I'll get a pic up of it for you. I got the plans from another forum and had to scale the image.

Phil
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  pkrankow Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:26 pm

Pictures,

Baby Brothers Img_2014



Baby Brothers Img_2015


Baby Brothers Img_2016


It was an easy build, and practice for scaling plans.

I made the rubber band mount to match my lil wizard, it was an add-on. Still haven't flown it. I think I'll put my baby stunt bee on it when I get my stooge set up.

Phil
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Thinking Re: Baby Brothers

Post  duke.johnson Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:33 pm

Got it, that's what I was calling the Beginner Bipe.
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