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Dabbling in the Darkside (other nitro engines)

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Happy Re: Dabbling in the Darkside (other nitro engines)

Post  duke.johnson Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:20 pm

@sdjjadk wrote:Sorry to hear about the crashes.
I'm kind of glad I haven't flow mine yet. So do the Nobler arf's just go nose in without warning? Or just when the engine quits? Is it a CG problem or incidence problem? Is there is anything I can do to prevent it from nosing in?
This is my first T/F Nobler arf and the last Nobler I flew was a kit built Junior back in the 80's but I seem to remember it having no bad tendencies what so ever.

Shawn
My Nobler ARF crashed because of the pilot. It flew great until that.
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Happy Re: Dabbling in the Darkside (other nitro engines)

Post  RknRusty Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:22 pm

Do you have any idea why it kept sinking? Control rod bowing, maybe? Anyway, I'm glad it's okay. Other than scraping some of the Pretty off, they usually hold up pretty well. I should know, I've pancaked the SS about three times, under shooting inside loops.

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Happy Re: Dabbling in the Darkside (other nitro engines)

Post  RknRusty Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:29 pm

@sdjjadk wrote:Sorry to hear about the crashes.
I'm kind of glad I haven't flow mine yet. So do the Nobler arf's just go nose in without warning? Or just when the engine quits? Is it a CG problem or incidence problem? Is there is anything I can do to prevent it from nosing in?
This is my first T/F Nobler arf and the last Nobler I flew was a kit built Junior back in the 80's but I seem to remember it having no bad tendencies what so ever.

Shawn
I had never seen a Nobler in real life until Wayne brought his to the field a couple of week ago. Someone anonymously left an ARF at his club and nobody wanted it. After a meeting it was in his truck bed, so he took it home. All the control surfaces were glued and immobile. He fixed it up and put a Brodak .40 in it, and the thing flies great. It's rock solid and on track. I can't hold my SS as level in flat laps as he flies the Nobler. The landing glide is at least a full lap and no bounce on touchdown at all. But I don't know how much of that is the plane and how much is him. Last week the weeds in the field were slapping over the LE and punched holes all in the top of the wing covering. Yesterday, the blue wing had little red dots all over it like acne... or bullet holes. Ha, that's what he should have patched it with, bullet hole stickers.

Phil, I feel your disappointment. My second flight of the SS was off a stooge in tall weeds. They grabbed the lines and the plane took off and flew over my head and nosed in softly, breaking my defective Dural LG and brand new Top Flite 10x4 woody. All that trouble to set up to fly, and I'm already packing to go home. Grrrr!DAMMIT!

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Happy Re: Dabbling in the Darkside (other nitro engines)

Post  batjac Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:01 pm

@RknRusty wrote:Do you have any idea why it kept sinking? Control rod bowing, maybe? Anyway, I'm glad it's okay. Other than scraping some of the Pretty off, they usually hold up pretty well. I should know, I've pancaked the SS about three times, under shooting inside loops.
I have no idea. I put a couple of flights on it today and it flew great. I even let a friend fly it who hasn't flown C/L in over 20 years and he had no problem controlling it either.

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Happy Re: Dabbling in the Darkside (other nitro engines)

Post  RknRusty Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:10 pm

Funny wind rolloff, maybe. Ate you near trees or a building? In the churchyard I do 1/2A in, the wind rolls off the rooftops and there's one area that will pancake it every time you fly a flat lap through it. I always fly high through that quarter of the circle.

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Happy Re: Dabbling in the Darkside (other nitro engines)

Post  batjac Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:18 pm

@RknRusty wrote:Funny wind rolloff, maybe. Ate you near trees or a building? In the churchyard I do 1/2A in, the wind rolls off the rooftops and there's one area that will pancake it every time you fly a flat lap through it. I always fly high through that quarter of the circle.
That could be it. The ring is circled by trees.

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Happy Re: Dabbling in the Darkside (other nitro engines)

Post  pkrankow Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:12 pm

At least I got the engine running this time! Last time I couldn't get fuel into it, even though I flushed the tank a few weeks prior.

I am getting taller wheels, either that or I need to take off the existing landing gear and put on taller.

I also think some cleats on the first board for my stooge might be a good idea, and maybe another board or 3 so I have 10 ft or more roll space.

Phil
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Happy Re: Dabbling in the Darkside (other nitro engines)

Post  Cribbs74 Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:57 am

@sdjjadk wrote:Sorry to hear about the crashes.
I'm kind of glad I haven't flow mine yet. So do the Nobler arf's just go nose in without warning? Or just when the engine quits? Is it a CG problem or incidence problem? Is there is anything I can do to prevent it from nosing in?
This is my first T/F Nobler arf and the last Nobler I flew was a kit built Junior back in the 80's but I seem to remember it having no bad tendencies what so ever.

Shawn
Shawn they fly fine, they are nose heavy out of the box. In my case the engine was set too lean and when inverted it leaned even more causing the engine to seize.

Ron
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Happy Re: Dabbling in the Darkside (other nitro engines)

Post  SuperDave Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:10 am

"and when inverted it leaned even more causing the engine to seize." - Ron

Seize or stop?  Inverted flight is no reason for an engine to seize. Rolling Eyes   

If so, I'd stop flying inverted!     lol! 

SD
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Post  Cribbs74 Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:32 pm

Seized. Not my plane nor did I set the needle. I was asked to fly it to test how it flew. Last time I do that. I hate breaking folks planes.
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Happy Re: Dabbling in the Darkside (other nitro engines)

Post  SuperDave Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:11 pm

Ron:

Did you do a post mortum on the seized engine yet?

Usually seized engines were run on fuel without proper lubrication OR were very tired to begin with. That's my experience anyway.

SD
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Post  Cribbs74 Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:24 pm

No, sure didn't Dave,  I was told it was fine though. Not sure of the fuel used, but the owner is not new to the game. My guess is a lean setting coupled with improper tank height/pickup.

Ron
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Happy Re: Dabbling in the Darkside (other nitro engines)

Post  sdjjadk Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:39 pm

@Cribbs74 wrote:
Shawn they fly fine, they are nose heavy out of the box. In my case the engine was set too lean and when inverted it leaned even more causing the engine to seize.
Ron
Yeah mine was nose heavy too.
I had to cut a small patch of covering and add a 1/2 oz. of weight inside the tail of the fuse to get it to balance with my .40 LA

Shawn
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Happy Re: Dabbling in the Darkside (other nitro engines)

Post  duke.johnson Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:56 pm

I believe I put a little weight in the tail of mine too.
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Happy Post Mortem:

Post  GUS THE I.A. Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:56 am

The Nobler flew well. Balanced fine. Tank position is not able to be altered. Engine is right-side-up when plane is inverted, but perhaps cowled too tightly- resulting in overheating from lack of airflow.Dabbling in the Darkside (other nitro engines) - Page 2 100_1310
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Post  RknRusty Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:36 am

Nice illustration. But it looks like a wingover started on the wrong side of the wind. You gotta have a tailwind at the top to help push it on over. But how did you pull up like that a quarter lap after the engine died? Or were you just trying to flip it over to avoid an inverted landing?

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Post  GUS THE I.A. Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:19 am

Ask Ron why he did not just step off the center, to land inverted in the grass, as is S.O.P. for this situation. A vertical fin repair beats a toast airplane, any day.
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Post  Cribbs74 Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:53 am

Ouch! lol! good drawing.

No need to ask, I'll tell you. Lack of experience on my part. Still feel bad about it.
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Post  pkrankow Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:14 am

I keep reading that exit ventilation is more important than entry ventilation for cooling purposes. Apparently if there is not enough space for hot air to exit overheating is more likely.

"Ouch" indeed.

Phil
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Post  SuperDave Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:54 am

Ron:

From such episodes we learn and learning usually has a "price". Sad 

SD
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Happy Re: Dabbling in the Darkside (other nitro engines)

Post  RknRusty Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:00 am

@pkrankow wrote:I keep reading that exit ventilation is more important than entry ventilation for cooling purposes.  Apparently if there is not enough space for hot air to exit overheating is more likely.

"Ouch" indeed.  

Phil
Yeah, Phil, I guess hot air is bigger than cold air. There is some rule of thumb multiple they use; exit area must be x times inlet area.
I fly profiles, so I'm always cool.Dabbling in the Darkside (other nitro engines) - Page 2 Cool

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Post  Cribbs74 Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:31 am

Just to give you guys a breakdown....that pic Gus drew is of my flight with his Nobler in Wichita KS. It seized up while going inverted and as the picture shows I tried to save it from an inverted landing by flipping it into the wind which results in slack lines and nosing in. My mistake.

This thread really went off track lol! 

The ARF TopFlite Nobler flies very well. There is some construction problems with it though.

Ron

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Post  RknRusty Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:42 am

@Cribbs74 wrote:Just to give you guys a breakdown....that pic Gus drew is of my flight with his Nobler in Wichita KS....
Oh. I would have left it alone if I had realized that... seeing as how I know you'd like to put some distance between yourself and that incident.

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Post  Cribbs74 Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:51 am

@RknRusty wrote:
@Cribbs74 wrote:Just to give you guys a breakdown....that pic Gus drew is of my flight with his Nobler in Wichita KS....
Oh. I would have left it alone if I had realized that... seeing as how I know you'd like to put some distance between yourself and that incident.
No worries. It is what it is. I learned it's better to land inverted. I was just trying to land it the right way.

Ron
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Post  Jason_WI Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:45 pm

Accurate drawing even showing the slack lines. Sorry I Had to point that out. I have the figure 9 down path as well on my RC planes. I keep a small shovel handy to dig the engines out of the dirt.
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