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Post  fit90 on Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:43 pm

I ran one of my Valentine Speed Bee II's today. It ran very well. I used a Cox grey competition 5x3 prop, Sig Champion 25% fuel with one ounce of castor added per quart and left the engine as it came. After four ounces of fuel it held a very steady needle valve setting. The glow head it came with looks like a Cox standard .049 glow head. I tried a Galbreath head and Nelson plug with three head gaskets but could not get it to start so I went back to the original configuration. The engine easily started with just a few flips of the prop (I did not use a starter on this one) and after it had four ounces of fuel through it it would peak at 17.5K RPM and hold an ultra steady 17K RPM with the needle approximately 1/2 turn rich of peak. While this engine will not set any speed records it did start and handle easily while posting some good numbers. I think this one will find its way into the air some day.

I will take it apart and post some pics later this week when I get some time.

Bob
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Post  nitroairplane on Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:12 am

Please remind me is the speed bee ii rotary or reed
Valve intake?they're nice engines though hope you get it in the air someday.
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Post  warrenlead on Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:11 am

With the galbreath head on a bee engine you could need up to 9!!! head gaskets, but you will get up to 2,500 more rpm. Last engine I tried needed 6 I think.

Cheers

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Post  fit90 on Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:58 pm

Bad news, I went out to run my Valentine Speed Bee II today, I switched the prop to a purple, much faster ( approximately 4.8X2.8 and much thinner and lighter) one I bought from kittingittogether.com, everything else was the same. Less than a minute into the run the venturi began to fall out of the backplate. After I shut the engine down I took it apart to investigate and found the bad news. The disc valve pivots on a metal pin. When I opened the engine up the disc valve was covered in thick black sludge (metal (aluminum) galling). After cleaning the mess I found the disc valve's hole that it rorates around the metal rod on was severely out of round and badly worn. Less than three and one quarter ounces of fuel through it and it is now just a pretty piece of trash.

Pics to follow.

Bob
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Post  fit90 on Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:02 pm

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Post  fit90 on Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:03 pm

Happy Valentine's Day (Valentine Speed Bee II) Dscn0415Happy Valentine's Day (Valentine Speed Bee II) Dscn0416
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Post  fit90 on Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:07 pm

The third picture tells the story. The hole on the disc at two o'clock is where the crank pin engages the disc. That hole is now oblong. Also, the hole in the center of the disc is now over sized and oblong. I don't know if this started as soon as I began running the engine or only after I put the smaller prop on it. By the way, it ran at 21K on the smaller prop. It was pretty cool until things began falling off.
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Post  RknRusty on Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:49 pm

Aw man I truly feel for you. I have left the flying field hanging my head because I destroyed something I had put a lot of time and work into, and in a split second watched it all blink out of existence because I overlooked something or for whatever reason blamed myself.

Sorry man. Did it come with prop size recommendations? Is it possible the engine wasn't up to what was claimed. I just wonder because that damage is so severe to have happened so quickly. After all it was called a "Speed Bee." I think you should let Valentine know about it, if for no other reason, just so he knows one of his engines totally lunched in a matter of minutes.


PS I flew the Tee Dee today.
I'll post details in my own thread.

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Post  RknRusty on Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:06 pm

I am trying to search for Ronald Valentine Speed Bee, but can't find any real info on it. I've seen what is probably a picture of it and it said something like 22K RPM. You couldn't have exceeded it that much. Can you give me a link to your engine? I think Valentine owes you a new one.


EDIT: I found it: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19155487&postcount=23. I have no experience with die-cast crankcases. Maybe they flex.

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Post  fit90 on Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:00 pm

I just left a message for Mr. Valentine on his website. Based on past dealings with him I would be surprised if he did not contact me to at least find out what happened. I did purchase the engine on ebay with no warranty. Being that I knowingly and willing purchased the engine without warranty I do not plan to ask for a replacement. It would be nice to talk or correspond with Mr. Valentine to hopefully find out if I did something wrong and keep this from happenig again.

Time will tell.

Bob
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Post  Cribbs74 on Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:52 pm

Bob,

Apart from the oblong holes is there any other apreciable wear? Did any swarf go through the engine? If not would it be possible to have the holes Tig welded and re-drilled? I am sure they would have to be precise but it is possible. The purple anodized coating would be marred, but it would still be functional. I know next to nothing about these engines apart from their existance so excuse me if I sound ignorant. Just wondering if it is salvageable.
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Post  Big Al on Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:33 pm

Bob, I wouldn’t write your engine off as trash just yet. You need to carefully access/measure the damage.

First, inspect the Venturi and backplate. It appears that this was assembled as a press fit. What is the condition now? Can you insert the Venturi into the backplate with your fingers? If so, how much clearance is there? If the answer is that it is still an interference fit or even a thumb push fit, then there may be an easy fix. Even worse case if it falls through on its own, it can still be repaired. We just need to know the actual current fit.

Second, how much side (radial) play does the rotor disk have? Also end (axial) play? I’m guessing that the rotor is running on a pin that is pressed into the backplate. This pin has a ‘head’ which fits into a recess in the rotor. Its purpose is to control the axial clearance of the rotor on the pin. There will be an intentional clearance between the OD of that part of the pin and the recess in the rotor. The critical fit (which you can’t see without disassembly) is the rotor on the smaller dia of the pin. Checking both side and end play will determine if there is a problem there. BTW, the elongated hole in the rotor which engages the end of the crank pin is made that way for a purpose and is not a problem. That prevents any rotor run out from putting radial loads on the crank pin.

Cheer up; it will look better in the morning!
Al
P.S. I know better then this, but I’m going to go out on a limb and wager a glass of your favorite beverage that it will turn out that a drop of loctite, JB weld (or whatever the REAL engine guys come up with) and you’re back in business.
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Post  nitroairplane on Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:14 am

Well did you use an electric starter on it ever?
That is truly unlucky i feel to go and check my tinier valentines!
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Post  fit90 on Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:07 pm

No electric starter on this one. If I had to guess I would say that the engine was not made to run at 21K RPM because the aluminum that the disc is made from is so soft, especially compared to the pin it rotates on and the crank pin that drives it.

I read the little sheet that came with the engine and either near or at the very end it said that these engines are very fragile.

I guess I had better be tough because I am not always smart. I should have read the sheet first.

Bob
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Post  nitroairplane on Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:11 pm

Yeah all Valentines come with that sheet!
It also says your name i bet!
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Post  dankar04 on Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:09 pm

Very sorry to hear this. I hope the builder does right by you as they engines are not cheap. I have been tempted to buy some Valintine engines but never heard of anybody running any. Keep us posted.
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Post  nitroairplane on Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:11 pm

dankar04 wrote:Very sorry to hear this. I hope the builder does right by you as they engines are not cheap. I have been tempted to buy some Valintine engines but never heard of anybody running any. Keep us posted.
Dan

I run my litte DiVa 0.098cc that I got from him its a great engine.
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Post  fit90 on Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:01 pm

Thank you to everyone for the insight, encouragement and words of wisdom. Big Al, I think you are right all the way around. The venturi is a friction fit. The initial reason for disassembly was to make sure I did not push the venturi in too far and have it interfere witht the disc. The disc appears (I have not taken it apart this far yet) to rotate around a steel pin pressed into the backplate. If I get some time this weekend I will investigate further. If the disc has excesive run out I will try to put a bushing in it. Until I get some more time it will just be that little mystery tugging at the back of my mind.

When I get it taken down the rest of the way I will post some pics.

Thanks again guys,

Bob
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Post  nitroairplane on Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:06 pm

BTW guys I have been trying to contact Ronald Valentine for the past month but have got no response has anyone spoken to him recently?
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Post  fit90 on Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:11 pm

I have not gotten a reply to my email to him Sunday evening. The few times I emailed him he responded pretty quickly. Hopefully he is on vacation or something good like that.
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Post  nitroairplane on Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:17 pm

fit90 wrote:I have not gotten a reply to my email to him Sunday evening. The few times I emailed him he responded pretty quickly. Hopefully he is on vacation or something good like that.

Yeah hopefully!
I am getting rather worried though because we were in contact about once a week through ebay,email etc and then 1 week he just didnt respond and since then i have emailed him 3 time and ebayed him once and gotten no repsonse.
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Post  fit90 on Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:49 pm

Took the back end of the engine to my friend the machinist today to see about getting a bushing made for the disc. He said "No problem" so some time next week I should have everything I need to reassemble the engine and give it another go. While showing Ed "the machinst" the parts he thought that the materials were adequate and that perhaps the disc could have worked loose from any number of causes. Anyway, next week it will have a stainless bushing and if I get lucky it should be ready to run Thanksgiving weekend.

I will take and post pics befrore reassembly.

Can't wait,

Bob
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Post  RknRusty on Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:33 pm

Get a video while you're at it, I'd love to see and hear it run. I bet your camera will do that won't it.

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Post  fit90 on Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:04 pm

I will read the manual tonight and find out. Worst case scenario might be video without sound.
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Post  nitroairplane on Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:25 pm

fit90 wrote:I will read the manual tonight and find out. Worst case scenario might be video without sound.

Yours came with a manual!
Mine just came with a certificate of authentification s'ppose he knew i had some experience?
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