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CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

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CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  JPvelo on Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:47 am

2015 Profile Scale Speed rules:

Models will be of an actual aircraft type and must be recognizable as the subject being modeled. The model may be painted/covered in the scheme of your choosing, the paint/covering does not need to replicate an actual aircraft.

Minimum wingspan 15 inches, biplanes 12.5 inches, minimum wing area 45 square inches, minimum length 12 inches. Length is measured from the face of the prop drive plate to the rearmost part of the model. Fuselage will be of the profile type, meaning a flat "plank" or "slab".

Engine cowlings are not only permitted, they are encouraged to enhance the scale appearance of the model. Cowlings on models with the cylinder aligned horizontally must leave the entire glow head exposed and no part if the cowling will extend past that point. Vertically aligned cylinders may be fully enclosed if they fall within the scale outline of the aircraft bring modeled "Cheek blocks" or "nacelles" will not extend more than 3&3/8 inches past the back of the engine crankcase. The back of the crankcase on a reed valve engine is where the tank or backplate mates to the engine.


All controls, bellcrank, leadouts if used, and pushrod will be exposed and visible.

If building a model of a fixed gear aircraft the model must have a landing gear similar to the full scale aircraft, the gear does not need to be in the scale location. Models of aircraft with retractable landing gear may omit the landing gear entirely. Take off dollys may be used, hand or stooge launching is also permitted.

Any .049/.051 reed valve engine or combination of engines totaling not more than .051 assembled from reed valve crankcases with cox parts or reproduction parts of the type sold by Cox International and EX Model Engines will be  permitted.

http://coxengines.ca
http://www.exmodelengines.com

Aftermarket fine thread needle valve assemblies will also be permitted. Entrants may make their own reeds. Any style glow head or glow plug may be used. Engines will be run "open faced", meaning no mufflers or exhaust extensions will be permitted. After market prop nut type spinners may be used.

Engines may be of the integrated tank "Bee" type or use an external tank or bladder. External tanks and bladders may be enclosed within the engine nacelle.

Models in the Tee Dee class may use any cox .049/.051 engine or combination of engines totaling not more than .051 assembled from cox parts or aftermarket parts of the type sold by Cox International and EX Model Engines may be used.

http://coxengines.ca
http://www.exmodelengines.com

Aftermarket needle valves, glow heads/plugs, carb bodies, and spinners may be used.
Engines will be run "open faced" with no mufflers or exhaust extensions.

There will be no restrictions on propellers used in either class.

Fuel will have a maximum nitromethane content of 35%

Models will be flown on lines that are a minimum of 35 feet from the handle to the center line of the model and timed for 12 laps (1/2 mile) after becoming airborne and the engine has had a chance to "unload".

You may submit more than one entry but each entry must have its own engine, no swapping engines from model to model.

Models that have placed in the top three in a previous contest may not be re-entered.

Photographs of finished, flight ready models must be posted by Monday, December 14th 2015 in order to qualify. A separate thread for qualifying model photos will be opened October 1st. Models will be judged by a polling of members for "best model".  An official flight video must be submitted to win the best model poll.

Competitors will have until midnight Thurday, December 31st to submit video of your official flight via private message to JpVelo. Flight videos may be submitted at any time between now and December 31st. Submit only one video per model, once your video is submitted it is your official run and cannot be withdrawn and replaced with a new video. Models may be flown by the builder or flown by proxy.

Video will include launch and landing. You are allowed to "whip" the model as much as needed to get it safely in the air and up to speed. When you are satisfied the engine has unloaded and you are going  max speed you will raise your hand over your head. The signal to start timing will be when you drop your hand. Timing begins the first time the model passes between the camera and the pilot after the signal. The pilot must be in the video and the hand signal must be clear. Timing will be for 12 laps (1/2 mile).


Here's the sample video:



When you private message the video to me send the URL code only, that will look like this:
http://youtu.be/c5HjoIOtmoU
This will make it easier for me to send the videos to the judges.




Jim


Last edited by JPvelo on Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:12 am; edited 15 times in total (Reason for editing : Clarification of)
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  RknRusty on Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:38 am

Thanks, Jim. Sounds great, I'll consider the rules to be now chiseled in stone unless you decide to tweak a section for clarity. This is exciting and completely new for me. Thanks for thinking it up.

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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  JPvelo on Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:42 pm

RknRusty wrote:Thanks, Jim. Sounds great, I'll consider the rules to be now chiseled in stone unless you decide to tweak a section for clarity. This is exciting and completely new for me. Thanks for thinking it up.

Rusty
Thanks Rusty, I've been kicking this around for awhile and am really pleased with the response so far. This could be a real blast if we get enough participation.

Jim
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  OVERLORD on Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:47 pm

I feel it's gonna be an intercontinental contest.
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  navion34 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:59 pm

This challenge is a very good idea.

What about the airfoil ? Is it allowed to fit a "sheet airfoil" or a real airfoil is to do, and what is the minimum thick of the wing ?

I hope I don't miss something where it's noted.

Regards,

Rémy
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  JPvelo on Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:10 pm

navion34 wrote:This challenge is a very good idea.

What about the airfoil ? Is it allowed to fit a "sheet airfoil" or a real airfoil is to do, and what is the minimum thick of the wing ?

I hope I don't miss something where it's noted.

Regards,

Rémy
No minimum thickness, a sheet wing is recommended for maximum speed.

Jim
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  navion34 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:12 pm

Thank you Jim,
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  Kim on Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:43 pm

Ya know...just because this is a "Postal Contest", there's still no reason that we can't consider a "Get-Together"...is there ???

By April, I ought to have a good case of wander-lust going on so, maybe a few of us can pick a spot central enough between us for a "Mini-Speed Nationals" ?
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  JPvelo on Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:04 am

Kim wrote:Ya know...just because this is a "Postal Contest", there's still no reason that we can't consider a "Get-Together"...is there ???

By April, I ought to have a good case of wander-lust going on so, maybe a few of us can pick a spot central enough between us for a "Mini-Speed Nationals" ?
That would be cool!

Jim
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  roddie on Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:17 am

Is this going to be an "all-out" dash... for fastest lap-time out of 10 only... or could we make it interesting by awarding appearance points 1-10... 10 being "highly recognizable" as a scale subject?
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  JPvelo on Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:19 am

roddie wrote:Is this going to be an "all-out" dash... for fastest lap-time out of 10 only... or could we make it interesting by awarding appearance points 1-10... 10 being "highly recognizable" as a scale subject?
I want this to be an all out speed dash with stand off scale planes. By "stand off scale" I mean the model MUST BE EASILY RECOGNIZABLE as the subject plane. Outlines and proportions need to be reasonably accurate. All models need to be "highly recognizeable" as you put it.

If someone wants to start a thread to vote on the best looking or most scale they are welcome to but I prefer that to not happen until AFTER the speed competition is over with.

Jim
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  RknRusty on Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:28 am

....and maybe we can develop more ideas if it becomes an annual event. The first run probably poses questions we haven't anticipated.

Rusty

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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  JPvelo on Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:01 am

RknRusty wrote:....and maybe we can develop more ideas if it becomes an annual event. The first run probably poses questions we haven't anticipated.

Rusty
Agreed, let's keep the first one simple and fun and build on that experience next year.

Jm
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  JPvelo on Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:11 pm

JPvelo wrote:
roddie wrote:Is this going to be an "all-out" dash... for fastest lap-time out of 10 only... or could we make it interesting by awarding appearance points 1-10... 10 being "highly recognizable" as a scale subject?
I want this to be an all out speed dash with stand off scale planes. By "stand off scale" I mean the model MUST BE EASILY RECOGNIZABLE as the subject plane. Outlines and proportions need to be reasonably accurate. All models need to be "highly recognizeable" as you put it.

If someone wants to start a thread to vote on the best looking or most scale they are welcome to but I prefer that to not happen until AFTER the speed competition is over with.

Jim
Roddie, I feel like I owe you an apology. Reading over my post I think it may have come across as a little snarky.  Having had some time to think about it an appearance contest  would be a fun aspect to this thing. We could do two separate categories, most scale like and best over all.  Most scale like for models trying to replicate a specific aircraft, a photo of the aircraft would be provided to judge the model against. There's no reason the same model couldn't win both categories. If we can get Admin to set up voting I say go for it. It would even be fun to judge the "beauty contest" before the actual race.

Jim
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  pkrankow on Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:54 pm

If we are doing appearance judging I would prefer a points system with a standardized questionnaire. Standardized the images the airplane too. Say...

bottom
profile
top
front quarter from about 30 degrees above
rear quarter from about 30 degrees above
Choice

Yea 6 pictures showing all angles. Bottom and top would be used for dimension judging.

We can still do a popular voting on appearance.

Phil
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  roddie on Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:05 pm

JPvelo wrote:
JPvelo wrote:
roddie wrote:Is this going to be an "all-out" dash... for fastest lap-time out of 10 only... or could we make it interesting by awarding appearance points 1-10... 10 being "highly recognizable" as a scale subject?
I want this to be an all out speed dash with stand off scale planes. By "stand off scale" I mean the model MUST BE EASILY RECOGNIZABLE as the subject plane. Outlines and proportions need to be reasonably accurate. All models need to be "highly recognizeable" as you put it.

If someone wants to start a thread to vote on the best looking or most scale they are welcome to but I prefer that to not happen until AFTER the speed competition is over with.

Jim
Roddie, I feel like I owe you an apology. Reading over my post I think it may have come across as a little snarky.  Having had some time to think about it an appearance contest  would be a fun aspect to this thing. We could do two separate categories, most scale like and best over all.  Most scale like for models trying to replicate a specific aircraft, a photo of the aircraft would be provided to judge the model against. There's no reason the same model couldn't win both categories. If we can get Admin to set up voting I say go for it. It would even be fun to judge the "beauty contest" before the actual race.

Jim
No apologies needed Jim... I was merely "throwing the idea out there" to test the waters. It's all good!
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  JPvelo on Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:01 am

Kim wrote:Ya know...just because this is a "Postal Contest", there's still no reason that we can't consider a "Get-Together"...is there ???

By April, I ought to have a good case of wander-lust going on so, maybe a few of us can pick a spot central enough between us for a "Mini-Speed Nationals" ?
I attended my first meeting of "The Central Arizona Control Line Club" tonight. I told them about the contest and the guy that does the newsletter wanted a link to the rules so he can post it in the next issue. Maybe there will be enough local participation to hold "mini speed nationals here"! You cold climate guys would love April in Phoenix, should be about 85 degrees then.

Jim

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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  pkrankow on Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:17 pm

When measuring the fuselage length, does a control surface extending behind the bulk of the fuselage count?

Just checking, I expect the answer is "no"

Phil
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  JPvelo on Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:50 pm

pkrankow wrote:When measuring the fuselage length, does a control surface extending behind the bulk of the fuselage count?

Just checking, I expect the answer is "no"

Phil
Yes, it counts. 12 inches overall length.

Jim
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  pkrankow on Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:59 pm

JPvelo wrote:
pkrankow wrote:When measuring the fuselage length, does a control surface extending behind the bulk of the fuselage count?

Just checking, I expect the answer is "no"

Phil
Yes, it counts. 12 inches overall length.

Jim
Excellent! I didn't screw up then.
Phil
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  roddie on Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:17 am

I thought it might be important to mention; that the model choice must be a "single-engine" aircraft... the rules "language" does not particularly specify this...

Someone will build a P-38 or F-82... and blow us all away like a deer in the headlights! Shocked
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  RknRusty on Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:19 am

roddie wrote:...Someone will build a P-38 or F-82... and blow us all away like a deer in the headlights! Shocked
Yeah, if they don't hurt themselves turning 1 second laps!

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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  GUS THE I.A. on Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:22 am

I offer Wichita as a good centralized location for a get-together. We have nice, paved circles to fly from. We already fly Mouse racers here, and this sounds like another good venue for the Cox engines!
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  Kim on Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:05 am

GUS THE I.A. wrote:I offer Wichita as a good centralized location for a get-together. We have nice, paved circles to fly from. We already fly Mouse racers here, and this sounds like another good venue for the Cox engines!
That's within "Striking Distance" for me !!!

Traveling Kim
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Re: CEF Profile Scale Speed rules.

Post  Kim on Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:31 am

Reckon I'll renew my AMA Membership if I'm gonna hang around you guys !
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