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Post  craig bernard on Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:40 pm

there is an art to doing tissue covering for sure!I was applying the tissue on a simple rubber band plane called the javelin on the wing using a white glue and a bit of water and it turned out looking like an old wrinkled paper bag how disapointing.some of these guys make it look so easy on the internet tips.It started out good then went wrong.Ill strip it off tomorrow and try again.I have day off tomorrow do to extremely bad weather keeps snowing here as fast as it can be snow blowed away! RC Plane Biplane 
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Post  statorvane on Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:44 am

The best tips I got for covering with tissue came with a Comet model kit. It was an illustrated step-by-step technique that worked well for me. I was even able to help a freind covering a Sig Kadet with Monokote using these covering techniques. You can't hope applying heat (or thinned dope) will remove all wrinkles from the covering; you've got to keep them from forming in the first place.

I wish I had these instructions avail to post. Maybe somebody here knows the instructions I am talking about, and can provide a link to some archive of it?

BTW, is that the Guillow Javelin by chance?
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Post  statorvane on Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:50 am

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Post  Ken Cook on Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:19 am

I might be able to shed some light on the covering. If your using the tissue that comes with the kit, your going to get wrinkles as it's a low quality tissue. Basically that tissue is known as domestic tissue. It's more or less decorative colored tissue used for wrapping gifts. When you see the tissue that's being used on most videos, it's known as Jap tissue. It has a bit more strength, and it has one shiny side which doesn't require as much dope. The thinned white glue method works excellent as long as you don't start trying to pull the tissue too tight. The wrinkled bag experience your mentioning is exactly what you will experience using domestic tissue. Using dope thinned to 60/40, the 60 being thinner will tighten the tissue, it will also shrink the structure if your not careful. The longerons on a fuse side for example can be sucked in leaving the final look to appear what is known as "horse starved". It will appear scalloped so to speak. The key to the white glue method is to not overthin the glue. Make it so a thin bead can be brushed on an the tissue will suck right onto it. Just slide it enough to position and leave alone.

A easier method which might work for you is the glue stick method. Use white glue stick and run the glue stick all over the structure. With the pieces laid over the structure, brush alcohol through the tissue. This is a clean easy method. When complete, dope the structure so that no moisture can alter the tissue. It will anyhow, this will just prevent humidity to some degree from sagging the tissue. Sig Supercote will shrink the tissue, followed by a thinned solution of Sig Lite Coat which will stop the shrinkage. Although Sig Lite Coat can be used from the start, it won't shrink like Supercote will.

You could always dope the frame work, 2 coats and lay the tissue over the frame and brush thinner through the tissue around the perimeter of the frame which will soften the dope already on the frame work and make for a attachment coat.

Just for the record, the Javelin is a great flyer and once trimmed out you will be amazed at how it flies. I lost many and reduced the rubber size that came with the kit. The Arrow is a real beauty as well and I had a flight one day of nearly that didn't return. I had a hawk which didn't think too highly of this plane. It swooped down and went after it just missing grabbing it. It was really amazing. The plane just banked as it was ready to grab a hold of it. Ken
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Post  stevej on Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:02 am

I prefer Easy Built tissue. Good colors, quality & price. Try a Uhu Stic glue stick. Goes on purple so you can see it, but dries clear.
http://www.easybuiltmodels.com/ebl.htm
http://www.easybuiltmodels.com/hotstuff.htm#uhu
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Post  craig bernard on Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:37 am

the guillows javelin is kind of a neat model i built all the framing and it came out really good that part however i do have some good quality tissue a freind gave me who now prefers monokote but it is white is there any house hold products that you can use to colour it once its on like spray paint house paint etc i dont really want to spend much money onmthis plus im snowed in!keep in mind that it isnt gas powered.this kit says youncan make it. 020 powered free flite i made the 1/8 firewall but changed my mind it seems on the flimsy side plus i can invision my. 020 flying away for good.the model was only about 15.00 dollars with tax.fun to build but you need patients i used tweezers for alot of it having big fingers and small parts as little as 1/6 by half inch long! Biplane 
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Post  Ken Cook on Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:25 pm

The main importance in rubber band freeflight models is the weight. Guillows is not well known for having light wood in their kits. In fact they can fly really well if you do build one using the lighter stuff. I wouldn't paint the tissue or even use color dope as it will just add weight. If the tissue you have is white, I would use a colored Sharpie to place pinstripes or whatever. I also would find some tissue in different colors which can be used for wing tip panels , stripes, etc. Tissue can be easily doped on. I highly recommend your final model to be coated with at least 2 coats of thinned dope be it nitrate or butyrate. It will just keep the tissue taught and will strengthen the underlying structure. Thanks for that link Steve. Ken
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Post  RknRusty on Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:30 pm

This is a great thread. I've bookmarked several links in it. I'm still shy on tissue wing covering, but I just used it on my first profile fuse and it looks nice. Thanks for all the helpful information.

Rusty

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Post  Ken Cook on Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:43 pm

My Guillows Arrow was covered using the tissue that came within the box. I tried to get some close ups to show the wrinkles. This plane is nearing 10 yrs old but it really has been a lot of fun. The fuse has had some issues. The front end hit the gable end of a maintenance garage on landing one day. It collapsed the F-1 former back and broke the stringers as well. I repaired and patched back the covering. This tissue was installed using the white glue method followed by some dope. One of these days, I'm going to build the 54" span Comet Taylorcraft I've had. It's amazingly large for rubber but it looks just way too cool. Also in the pics are my Pacific Ace with Sharpie trim lines. This plane has Jap tissue . Jap tissue looks great, but it will fade quickly in the sun as this tissue was a real deep red. It now has a pinkish hue to it. You can see the scalloped look of the stringers on the bottom of the fuse. The tissue is shrinking due to age and has pulled in the wood. A great little flyer. The one pic shows how my huge ham hands crushed the fuse and broke the stringer. Ken

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Post  craig bernard on Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:17 pm

thanks for the picks looks to be a not bad job on tissue covering and being 10years old. What about this krylon clear spray does anyone have a comment about it.one fellow mentioned the tissue that comes with kit is basically the same as the stuff for rapping gifts.can you use the wrapping gift tissue or dont waste your time i have lots of different colours of that christmas just passing and all.i dont have a clue so i have to ask my closes hobbie shop is about an hour drive away.. Snowman 
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Post  Cribbs74 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:29 pm

The guy who mentioned that it's wrapping paper is the same guy who commented in the post right before yours.

His recommendation was that it works, but will usually wrinkle. So it's up to you if you want to use the Christmas supply. It just depends on the finish quality you desire.

I am not sure about paints, I will leave that for someone more knowledgeable than I to comment.

Ron
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Post  statorvane on Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:58 am

Ken wrote:One of these days, I'm going to build the 54" span Comet Taylorcraft I've had. It's amazingly large for rubber but it looks just way too cool.

My brother and I built the Aeronca Chief - 54" wingspan. The kit came with a balsa prop which was interesting.

We found the fuselage could have used sturdier wood. The frame is constructed from 1/8" balsa and would not stand up to normal use, etc. Had that scalloped look like your Pacific Ace. Could have used a bigger section or harder balsa. It's been 40 years since, so I can't remember how hard the supplied wood was.

The wing however was indestructible. It flew very slowly; gracefully. The rubber supplied would not really provide much duration or power. Still, a cool kit and I think the Taylorcraft will be similar.
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Post  gcb on Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:24 pm

I didn't see anyone suggesting grain direction. If you tear the tissue a little bit in two directions parallel to the edges one way will tear straight and one ragged. The straight tear is the grain direction. This should be applied spanwise on wings and parallel to the bulkheads on fuselages. That will provide best strength and resistance to tearing.

George
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