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LOL 049 medallion starter springs

Post  getback on Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:48 pm

I just got some of this babys and am not sure how to correctly fit them can someone show me a pic or try and tell me how? [with my bad hip the less time I am on the ground the better] Thanks Cold I guess there are starter spring people out there  Huh... I even mailed cox international ,but no reply
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  getback on Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:27 am

getback wrote:I just got some of this babys and am not sure how to correctly fit them can someone show me a pic or try and tell me how? [with my bad hip the less time I am on the ground the better] Thanks Cold I guess there are starter spring people out there  Huh... I even mailed cox international ,but no reply  
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  John Goddard on Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:26 am

Hello Mate
I don't recall seeing a medallion fitted with a spring, I could be wrong and praps
one of the other boys will chime in but....
If it's a bee type (wraps around the cylinder to anchor spring) or a teedee
type (spring anchors around the pressure nipple on crankcase) I dare say
you'd be able to anchor it around the venturi by 'adjusting it with some
pliers.
 Very Happy
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  G.O. Stang on Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:28 am

I personally haven't seen a starter spring on a medallion. Seen them on tee dees and those go around the NV and slide over the pressure barb on the carb body. This doesn't exist on the medallions so I would say you'd need to secure it some other way. If you've got the needle on that side, you could bend the spring to where the needle could go through it and hold it there. Never tried this myself though.
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  stevej on Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:53 pm

Your .049 Medallion doesn't have a pressure nipple? Mine do. Uses the same spring as the TD. Cox International sells them.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cox-Medallion-049-/221349496855?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3389754817
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  RknRusty on Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:05 pm

Here's mine. It didn't have a pressure nipple so I screwed a tiny wood screw into what was left of the nipple the previous owner had ground off. I also have anchored the spring to the bottom beam with a zip tie which works fine if it's beam mounted. I do that with my Norvel springs too.

049 medallion starter springs Captur13

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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  RknRusty on Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:16 pm

I've also had several of the TD/Medallion springs wrap up in the prop, so don't get too fond of it. But I have one that just keeps on working. Make sure the the tag end of the little loop at the tip of the prop hook is bent so it's not sticking out where it can be grabbed. It's hard to see, but the one in my pic is how you don't want it.

Sometimes those springs rubbing on the drive plate will make you think you have gray exhaust and cause a moment of fear.
Rusty

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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  G.O. Stang on Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:31 pm

stevej wrote:Your .049 Medallion doesn't have a pressure nipple? Mine do. Uses the same spring as the TD. Cox International sells them.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cox-Medallion-049-/221349496855?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3389754817

My bad. I don't actually have an .049 medallion so I was thinking of my .09. You are correct.
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  SuperDave on Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:24 pm

If you were to ask, which no one did, I'd say starter springs on small engines are for WIMPS!

I use my longest finger also known by other names I won't mention.  lol! 

(There that posted just fine)

SD
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  RknRusty on Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:44 pm

SuperDave wrote:
I use my longest finger also known by other names I won't mention.       lol!   
Yeow, that hurts just to read it.

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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  fredvon4 on Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:54 pm

add me to the wimp Shh  list...I much prefer the spring on my 049s and double wimp cuz I occasionally will use the electric on a PITA to start engine from 049 up to my 1.4  Devil 

BUT that said... I have a growing hanger of "one flip" engins thanks to Doug Galbreath professional tweaking and Ken Cook wonderful hints on fuel and fuel systems
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  Cribbs74 on Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:12 pm

I have seen those springs wind themselves around the prop first hand. I think if you do what Rusty said that will negate the problem somewhat.

That being said a properly cleaned engine only takes a couple flips to fire off. TD or reed valve. If they don't something is up with the engine. More than likely it's fuel quality/delivery, glow head/battery or compression is low.
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  getback on Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:10 am

Thanks for all the good info. Ron I do believe I may have some fuel issues being that its over a year old I was going to ask this question about the fuel how long is to long? Rusty thanks also I have never seen a spring wrap around a prop but has really got me thinking  Huh... wimp I guess I am , the hip problem sucks if it takes too long to get running ,all I can do to get up sometimes   DAMMIT! but I will maintain , my last couple times out to try and fly 50 degrees or less , I am sure there are people here that wish they could get that weather in the winter {KIM}  Cold THANKS YOU Theresa FROM COX INTERNATIONAL  Very Happy
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  fredvon4 on Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:40 am

I too have a hard time kneeling and getting back up so I tote a small folding chair and do a lot of starting and fiddling on my lap

049 medallion starter springs 01101410
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  roddie on Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:25 am

I'm still laughing SD.....  Laughing (apparently your Bee's never start backwards...  Wink )

I see people WIND THE CRAP  Sh*t Hit The Fan out of their spring starters... I usually go 1 turn. That's all it takes to produce more torque than you could ever exert with your finger (no matter how long it is..  Laughing  ) as long as all else is correct (engine tight, plug lit, good fuel) Over-winding.. bends the spring-coil out of shape and affects the alignment of the tab/hook.

Here's a "zero-drag" starter used on a Babe-Bee bench-run, to test a venturi throttle's rpm range.

Roddie

The banter with my wife starts around 2:10... (if you can make it that far...  Laughing )



Last edited by roddie on Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  SuperDave on Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:25 am

Fred:

Physical infirmities I know quite well at age 76.  But over the years I've managed to devlop the skills to do well on diagnostic problems: KISS.

"Keep It Simple, Stupid' works more often than not.  Overlooking the obvious only complicate the solution to a problem.

SD


Last edited by SuperDave on Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  RknRusty on Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:12 am

Speaking of over winding. I have had some engines that start more reliably with a half turn. And that's all the Norvel springs will turn without bunching up. I use those on other beam mount engines too. On the test stand, just zip tie the spring to the stand, or to the lower beam on your plane. Works great on a Brodak.

Rusty

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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  getback on Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:04 am

Thanks for all the info , I feel sure I have it bent out of the way enough to miss the prop, also to Fred for understanding the main problem, I am still going to try and build me a rolling table that if possible take off on , missed out on one at work metal mesh could have switched the wheels for larger , and extend the top with some thin metal. had a couple shelf too , going to have to warm up before I do this project though  :heater: Snowman 
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  John Goddard on Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:25 am

Echoing what the Rustmeister says about td springs ie don't get too attached to them
I think they reach a certain resonance then wobble into the prop.
All my Teedee's of every size with springs have done this, in the 2012 tach race one of the more
'sensible' forum members, did the same with my 020 as I recall.  lol!

As for less windback, remember the old idiom from the world of pull start cars....
less pull to start.
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  RknRusty on Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:10 am

Haha, I'd forgotten about that movie. I believe that was in Roddie's first post at CEF, wasn't it?

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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  Surfer_kris on Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:56 am

I've never had any problems with getting the prop entangled with the spring on its own, I must be doing something wrong...  Rolling Eyes 

On the frictionless types there should be a large enough gap between the prop and the spring so that they cannot engage on their own, even if the engine runs backwards. Half a turn is plenty of wind-back to get a snappy release and it will not deform the spring.

The Norvel springs can easily be use on the cox TD and medallions too. If you don't want to drill a hole in the engine lug, then just rotate the spring 180° and make a hole (and groove) in the engine mount.

Here is an 05RC with Norvel starter spring (no mods to the engine);

049 medallion starter springs Img_1322
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  getback on Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:39 pm

I like that Kris surfer dude , I will try that set up for I really don't like the way the spring starter point ends up at the top , I am right handed but wind with my left  Huh... ?? I know flipping sometime can take the fun out pretty quick  DAMMIT! also trying to get my engines to run better still some learning . Thanks to u guys it comes easier than trial an error all the time  Smile Smoking  Babe Bee .049 Small Cox Logo Babe Bee .049
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  Marleysky on Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:15 am

roddie wrote:I'm still laughing SD.....  Laughing (apparently your Bee's never start backwards...  Wink )

I see people WIND THE CRAP  Sh*t Hit The Fan out of their spring starters... I usually go 1 turn. That's all it takes to produce more torque than you could ever exert with your finger (no matter how long it is..  Laughing  ) as long as all else is correct (engine tight, plug lit, good fuel) Over-winding.. bends the spring-coil out of shape and affects the alignment of the tab/hook.

Here's a "zero-drag" starter used on a Babe-Bee bench-run, to test a venturi throttle's rpm range.

Roddie    

The banter with my wife starts around 2:10... (if you can make it that far...  Laughing )



Roddie. - happy birthday again!    Watched your movie of the "throttled 049".  That looks like it works real good.  Have you tried it in a flyable airframe? Don't know what fun it would be flying slow in CL, but for powered gliders or RC you could extend your flight time by idling back.   Loved your wife's comments at the end of the video!!   ( next time just tell her to just " go make me a sandwich ")
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

Post  roddie on Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:32 pm

Marleysky wrote:
roddie wrote:I'm still laughing SD.....  Laughing (apparently your Bee's never start backwards...  Wink )

I see people WIND THE CRAP  Sh*t Hit The Fan out of their spring starters... I usually go 1 turn. That's all it takes to produce more torque than you could ever exert with your finger (no matter how long it is..  Laughing  ) as long as all else is correct (engine tight, plug lit, good fuel) Over-winding.. bends the spring-coil out of shape and affects the alignment of the tab/hook.

Here's a "zero-drag" starter used on a Babe-Bee bench-run, to test a venturi throttle's rpm range.

Roddie    

The banter with my wife starts around 2:10... (if you can make it that far...  Laughing )



Roddie. - happy birthday again!    Watched your movie of the "throttled 049".  That looks like it works real good.  Have you tried it in a flyable airframe? Don't know what fun it would be flying slow in CL, but for powered gliders or RC you could extend your flight time by idling back.   Loved your wife's comments at the end of the video!!   ( next time just tell her to just " go make me a sandwich ")

Ah yes... and she does make GREAT sandwiches!!!! The Ace (venturi) type throttle shown in the vid has only been bench-run by me. I plan on trying it in a marine app. on a small out-rigger hydroplane. As well as throttle control; it should help to prevent engine over-speeding if the model flips over and also provide for an anti prop-cavitation aid when launching.. helping to get the hydro up on it's step and plane-out.  

The issue(s) for this throttle/engine combo in a control-line airplane app. are the power to weight ratio for the reed-valve engine being marginal.. and the fact that the firewall must be designed for the plunger (needle) to pass through it's center and straight into the engines rear air-intake. On a profile fuse, this isn't impossible.. but it does pose challenges for fitting a 90 degree bell-crank and return-spring to actuate the throttle linkage for a 3rd line to control. I had put some thought into this for a 1/2A Navy-Carrier scale model. It would need testing.. and the throttle return-spring would need to be of a tension as to not be affected by the drag of it's 3rd line while holding the throttle normally full-open until the line is tensioned.. but not so much as to affect the function of the two main control lines. This would be the "lightest-weight" option as compared to a servo-driver/receiver/battery set-up; which would add too much weight to be practical (even with the lightest weight modern radio gear). Carrier models aren't required to "stunt". I believe that they are judged on "top-speed" and in turn; slowest speed (timed laps) and their ability to make an "arrested" landing on a simulated carrier-deck. This also requires a durable landing-gear. It would be interesting to try a throttle-linkage which is connected to (or actuated by..) the main bell-crank. This probably sounds crazy initially.. but if the throttle could be proportionately "closed" with up-elevator input, it may be enough to pitch the nose "up" while at the same time; bleed-off airspeed as the engine runs slower. The Ace throttle is quite "linear" in operation.. so it may be possible to dial-in using a clevis in the throttle linkage.. plus there would only be the two conventional lines to deal with. It would definitely be a "balancing-act" though.. because giving up-input at max speed will obviously cause the model to climb before it slows down enough. Whereas the model is not designed to "stunt".. it could be built with minimal elevator area.. (like a speed-model) which just might be enough to work.

Thanks again for the Birthday wishes!!
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LOL Re: 049 medallion starter springs

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