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Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

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Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  RknRusty on Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:17 pm

Guess I better start a new thread since the Shoestring is no longer my contest plane. As I posted in the old SS thread, I got some flights in Saturday in preparation for this coming weekend's contest. We only got one on video, my first flight after having to fix a tank issue. I was trying a wide handle on this flight just to see how I liked it. I didn't, It was too responsive and my patterns were a little jerky.  So I changed to a Tom Morris handle with width and side to side adjustments and liked it much better.

Another change that I made is the prop. I've always used the 10.5x4 prop that came on the plane and it was okay, but a little fast. The new TF 10x4 flies slower at 5.3 seconds and still has great authority coming out of corners without losing thrust. Funny how the Master Airscrew had the same lap speed but completely stalled in corners. Not good at all in the down leg of a square. I'll never use an MA again for stunt. BTW, that's what I use on the SS. It gets a new prop next time I play with it. All in all, after the two changes on my next flight, I really locked in. I feel good about my chances now.

Here's a video of that first flight. This is the field I'll be competing on Sunday. I skipped the Horizontal 8(ADD Rolling Eyes ) and went straight into the Overhead 8. I had a great takeoff and landing, something that is easy to overlook for potential points. I got a little lost exiting the OH8, but not too bad other than that. Listen to the fp35 sing, I love it, a really sweet run. It likes it's new prop. Watch Wayne coaching me up after the flight. lol! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uy4Vq7eSoI&list=FLgYkP8ZpK_AtOfDvWYCANyA
Rusty


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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  Cribbs74 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:39 pm

I agree Rusty, the engine run was spot on. What brand of new prop are you using?

I wish the camera was a touch higher as I missed everything above your head!

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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  RknRusty on Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:48 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:I agree Rusty, the engine run was spot on. What brand of new prop are you using?

I wish the camera was a touch higher as I missed everything above your head!

That was a Top Flite Powerpoint wooden, 10x4. I'd been using a Powerpoint 10.5x4 that was on the plane ever since October, and busted it in February. The 10x4 really hit the sweet spot. Another thing I like is, now I know that if it's really windy, I can lean it out to run faster and still be reasonably close to my comfort zone.

When broke it on a bumpy landing and tried the MA 10x4, I was appalled at how wimpy it was. I learned something from that. Unfortunately I had no more TFs of the right size, so I hustled up and ordered 4 of them. I do have a Zinger 10x4 to practice with tomorrow. I wonder how it will compare. Another learning opportunity. My new TFs will be here by Thursday. Whew!

Yeah, the camera was too low. If you can see my bottoms, they were all about the same size and position. The outsides were a little tight, but not too bad for the first Skyray flight in a long time. My squares are the hardest for me to make neatly with this plane. That's one stunt that I can really nail with the Shoestring. It snap turns better than the Skyray, but that ability led to me over control the loops when I was first learning. My narrow Boesen handle has also helped me overcome that with the SS. I'm now getting to the point where I can match a certain handle to a particular plane. I need a narrow one for the Yak too. It turns corners like a humming bird.

I'm feeling pretty good coming into the weekend. I'm much farther along than I was heading into to H'ville last time. Only no more beginner's luck. I hope I get to fly tomorrow, but the weather is iffy. 10-16mph and a chance of rain between 10am and 2pm.
Rusty

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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  JPvelo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:53 pm

That is one sweet sounding motor. I can't tell from the video, is there a muffler on that?

Jim
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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  RknRusty on Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:05 pm

That was 2-1/8 ounces of gas. And yes, there was a muffler on it. Two flights after that the rear part pooted off the plane and went flying into the damn woods. That's a fairly hard to find OS#762. Boy it leaned out(no more pressure feed) and made a loud racket after it came apart. That would cause a DQ in a contest flight. I wish I knew how much it weighed. Someone had ground off all the fins and thinned it all over. It was a tiny little thing. I had an un-modified one like it on the SS, so I took it and lightened it as well as I could. Now I need to find another one. Funny, it fits the TT 25 and the OS fp35, but not the OS fp25 or the Max-s 35. I don't know what engine it was originally for. Mark sent it to me when I bought the TT from him.
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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  Ken Cook on Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:56 am

Rusty, does most of your maneuvers take place when flying there occur in the same spot? I see you have those trees behind you. That's a real advantage. Some planes can get lost with the green but I see many dark areas in the lower sections of those trees. You could use those shaded areas to place your bottoms accurately. Not only can this work as a height indicator, it can work like a azimuth. Use your peripheral vision to indicate your stop and starts of the maneuvers. Ken
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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  RknRusty on Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:52 am

The trees were helpful that day. The colors of the different types of trees contrast, and there's also a big dead one over there. My biggest difficulty as I'm learning to fly patterns now knowing where I am, and that gave me a clear reference. The wind that day was coming over the flats moving up over the lower circles and running into those trees like a barrier. It was easy to find a reference point. The only thing was the plane would really flutter at the closest distance to the trees. In fact on my last flight I omitted the inside square which is the most likely one to bottom out in that type of air. If it's the same way in the contest, I'll make long high tops and pull out with higher bottoms... better than splinters. I'm hoping I'll be the best beginner wind flyer. I'm betting on about 10mph, which is a typical flying day for me.

The only other time I flew on that circle was in the October contest, and the wind was coming from the opposite direction, through the trees in roiling tempests. I was even easier to confuse back then and the Shoestring's engine coughed, I panicked and aborted the 4th Overhead 8 loop. But to answer your question, I don't know what the usual prevailing is out there.

Out at the fort I have less visual points and sometimes get lost when the wind swirls. Sometimes I feel the wind change and move my stunts, ignoring the sock.  I'm finally learning that feeling changes in the wind direction doesn't mean I should move my maneuvers from one lap to another... stick with what I have already determined is the prevailing direction unless there's a really big blow, take another lap or two and re-think it. If you watch my early videos, you'll see me do stunts over here, then over there and back again. I still get lost sometimes, but I'm getting better about it. Especially when the engine and plane are flying with some authority. I'll try my best to use the judges as the upwind reference and stick with it unless I really feel danger. Sometimes I berate myself for being a slow learner, only able to learn one lesson at a time. But I do think the curve is getting better.

Rusty

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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  JPvelo on Thu May 01, 2014 1:07 am

Rusty,
Break a leg buddy, make us all proud!
I'm leaving for San Francisco tomorrow and don't know how much I will check in over the weekend so I wanted to put that out there now.

Jim
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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  topbrent on Thu May 01, 2014 5:40 am

That 762 muffler was used on .25FSR, .28F, .32F engines

I would get the proper, but heavier, E3030 muffler and try it out on your plane. If the E3030 functions on the 35/40 sized engines anything like the E2030 muffler does on the 20/25FP & LA25, then it basically runs as well as a tuned pipe.
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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  RknRusty on Thu May 01, 2014 9:16 am

Hi Topbrent welcome to CEF, thanks for posting.
I may have an E3030. And probably do have a 2030 since I have an fp25 with a muffler. I didn't know about what you're saying regarding the engine run, but I do know, when this old plane was first given to me it was too nose heavy and I took the existing muffler off and replaced it with the small modified 762. At the time I knew nothing of .35 size engines, only having had some experience with the TT 25 on my other plane. Going into this weekend, I can't change anything that might affect the way it flies, as the next time she becomes airborne, it's on the judges' stopwatch.

After this weekend, that plane is retired, and a shiny new one that's prettier, lighter, and tighter will replace it. That new one will have the aforementioned fp25, which was graciously given to me by a member of CEF. The original plan was to fly the new one this weekend, but life slowed my projects and the old beater gets one last go. The ol' GlueRay.  The new one will be a Skyray, however almost indistinguishable to the untrained eye, to a Flite Streak. And about 8 or 10 ounces lighter.

Speaking of the GlueRay, though heavy, with the 35 I can fly a respectable pattern with it. But something happened Tuesday at practice that bothers me. The closer I get to the weekend, the more I think up to fret over. As I have said, it's always windy at Fort Jackson, but the trees are a couple of hundred yards away, it was blowing straight down the RC runway where I fly, so not much swirling. The 15mph sock was full. I picked my reference point and took off to fly a pattern. After the wingover I pulled into my first inside loop going to 60 degrees on top to stay safe. After passing over the top it accelerated like an afterburner had kicked in and I had to pull full panic Up to keep it from bottoming out. I've never felt that before. So I aborted and went around a few times. The next time I felt a lull in the breeze, I did my 3 loops just fine and exited inverted. The wind was up again and I started my outsides, again with 60 degree tops... same thing, afterburners kick in and I'm pulling full Down to save it. I aborted the rest of the pattern and flew it out.

So now I'm worried about the plane. I thought I'd flown it in that much wind before... it's hard to know. But I've never experienced anything like what happened on those loops. Lately I've had to fix cracks in the stab and elevator, and the whole thing just seems too flexible to me. I cut new one out, but I'm really hesitant to perform surgery on the plane now. I guess I'll pray to the gods of control line for light wind. I'd like to know if anyone else reading this who's flown Stunt has had a similar experience. Does it sound like an airframe problem, or just to be expected for that much breeze?

Right now the forecast up there is good for Sunday, max 9mph. I can work with that.
See, I'm just worrying myself to death. Maybe I can learn to meditate between now and then. Ohmmmmmmmmm.
Rattlin' Rusty

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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  Cribbs74 on Thu May 01, 2014 9:28 am

Rusty,

Do a little light reading about biasing the wind. It sounds like that is what you are experiencing.
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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  RknRusty on Thu May 01, 2014 10:06 am

Cribbs74 wrote:Rusty,

Do a little light reading about biasing the wind. It sounds like that is what you are experiencing.

Yes, thanks, Ron. For example...

Inside loops: and Outside loops:

Not that I'm wild about experimenting during a competition, but if it's so windy that I know I can't do it straight downwind, I'm willing to try.

That being said, I really doubt high wind will be an issue, I just need something to worry about.
Thanks,
Rusty

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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  Ken Cook on Thu May 01, 2014 3:28 pm

Rusty, I would hold the elevator with one hand and pull hard on the lines and see what's exactly going on. Your description sounds to me like your losing the stiffness in some part of the control system. If the pushrod is bowing, add a additional stiffner. If the control horn is flexing on the elevator itself, add a small piece of ply top and bottom of the elevator. After assembly, check again. Try and make it flex. If your holding full up or down, this seems that something is mushing out or you just don't have enough control throw dialed in. Not that I advocate engine or rudder thrust, if the winds are up in the 15-17 range some out thrust might be the solution. Remember something else, when was the last time you flew this plane? How was the temperature when you were flying it. Many times I'm flying in the winter with one particular prop and things are working great until spring rolls around and it all goes to crap. Props will work with more efficiency in the winter vs the hotter climate. Seeing that most of the maneuvers are down wind, this really shouldn't be much of an issue.This can certainly create a problem with speeds or just the needed drive through the wind.  

The overhead 8's is where things are going to blow you around. The other maneuvers are all downwind. Sometimes you just have to let it fly up there and don't panic. It will certainly get light on the lines up top. Ken
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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  RknRusty on Thu May 01, 2014 8:10 pm

Ken, The control horn is not flexing and well braced. But there is a slight bow when I force the elevator back against the control rod, which is braced with the loop of a cotter pin and it just moves within that. I can't even see the elevator move when I make the rod flex, but I know it's easy to underestimate the affect of a tiny bit of motion. I'll shore up that brace. I hadn't noticed it before but that wind probably forced the issue. The good news is the forecast is now 8mph both days, which is well inside my comfort range.

The whole elevator and stab are, in my opinion, too a soft grade of wood. But that's only apparent when I grab the tips and counter twist back and forth. I'd like to seal the wide hinge line but it's too gooky to stick tape to. By now you're probably shaking your head wondering why the heck I'm even asking about the obvious. It just all became apparent on the same turbulent day. I have new tail feathers cut out of better wood, but hesitate to rip into it the night before I fly. I have the repair kit packed though.

I'll let y'all know how me and the GlueRay do.
Thanks,
Rusty

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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  Ken Cook on Fri May 02, 2014 3:01 am

Rusty, I'm not wondering. I know exactly how you feel about it. I've experienced this and when your on limited time, things don't get done quickly enough. Finally at the beat of the gong your trying to fix something. Keep this in mind, if you can still fly the maneuver as an attempt and make it look like what is supposed to be done you will get scored on it. If you bail out you lose your pattern points. It certainly is another thing to do this if your going to risk losing the plane. I do believe your onto the elevator twisting due to it being soft. I've experienced similar situations. Ken
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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  roddie on Fri May 02, 2014 5:49 am

Good Luck Rusty... and don't worry about it. ohmmmmm  Smile My  Two Cents ; I think that the Skyray has given you the confidence to fly in more wind than you're used to flying your other airplanes in. If the forecast is spot-on for Huntersville, you'll do fine. If it's excessively windy, it'll be affecting all the flyers... not just you. Don't sweat it.  Cool
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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  RknRusty on Fri May 02, 2014 10:11 am

Thanks everybody. I'll check in now and then, but as you know, I ain't much of a phone typer.
See y'all in the funny papers.
Rusty

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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  getback on Fri May 02, 2014 7:06 pm

GO GET THEM RUSTY !!! Small Cox Logo Very Happy 
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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  RknRusty on Fri May 02, 2014 9:58 pm

Everybody having fun, talking planes, helping each other, no matter what your level is, makes the butterflies disappear instantly.

My Top Flite props came in the mail today. Easy to balance, only one dud in the four.
My profile event is at 10 am.
Good night.
Rusty

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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  Cribbs74 on Fri May 02, 2014 10:28 pm

Lucky dog. Enjoy!
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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  roddie on Sat May 03, 2014 8:40 am

Wish I was there right now!
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Re: Practice with the Skyray, getting ready for the contest

Post  RknRusty on Sat May 03, 2014 5:39 pm

Well I beat the crap out of my October score... or would have if they awarded me pattern points for my abbreviated beginner pattern. So I'll call that a good practice.

Now to carry it over to tomorrow.
Rusty

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