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Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

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Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  Kim on Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:32 am

So, the rains go away for a bit, and I call Patrick to tell him he needs to check out these weird Sullivan Cables I bought for him.  Turns out, he was getting ready to go to the park in town and see if he could find an empty spot to fly his PT-19.

I told him to bring it out, if he wanted, and we'd do a PT-19 Day out in the front yard.  I've got three that are more-or-less flyable, and so, the crazyness was on!!!

I got the pile of parts out, along with a big bag of rubber bands, and started assembling me some aircraft. Two are left over from the late 1970's, another one, my nicest, I got no clue about...but the first two have been stretched almost to the limits of their repairableness.

The Super PT is looking a bit faded...need to hit it's lettering again with the correction pen:



Need Bernie or Matt to find me some PT rudders in a box somewhere.  I keep breaking off their little nose-nub...but as with most things...rubber bands save the day:



My "Sunday-Go-to-Church" PT.  Even my nicest 19 has some repaired dings, but she flys:



My Ultra-Rare (and super-secret) "RF-19".  The modifications around the cockpit area are for the accommodation of camera equipment, with the intent of capturing inflight formation footage of another PT-19...as soon as I get to where I trust Patrick NOT to fly into me when we share a flight circle.

In the interest of National Security, please destroy your computer after looking at this photo:




The Boys park on their tightly-packed plywood carrier deck, with Patrick's 19 staged on the official launch board, while his P-40 snubs the Cool Crowd.

Also, please note my high-tech "Runway Helper"...a slab of insulating foam...unceremoniously wedged under the corner of the regular runway.  I had to yell at Patrick not walk on it...people just don't respect my art!



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After receiving my usual lecture on what lead-sleds these little planes are, I attempted to help Patrick launch his from our little runway.  Ignoring my suggestion to just stay where he was, and let the plane accelerate WITHOUT yanking it around, Patrick hauled the PT sideways off the runway, and into the grass, where it flipped.  Interrupting his "I told you so" with a volumed-up rerun of my first suggestion, we tried again, and the little trainer lifted happily away, with runway to spare.









Of all the assorted Ringmasters, Strings, Busters, Winds, Swoops, Voodoo's, Otto's, and other cool stuff I've been able to get my hands on...NOTHING takes me instantly back to 1968 like a Cox PT-19 with a good-running .049, doing it's thing out at the end of 35' of line.





Suffering through yet another of Patrick's dissertations on the crumbyness of Mr. Cox's wonderful little model, I preceded to fly each plane, pulling easy loops on the downwind side...in an attempt to demonstrate that they need to be "flown" through their loops, rather than have their pilot just haul in a bunch of energy-wasting "Up" control.









Don't think I made any points as Patrick tends to simply dismiss any evidence that conflicts with his long-held views.  Just as well...I had fun !

Sunset, and the Boys all survived to have more adventures another day:



Last edited by Kim on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:28 am; edited 6 times in total
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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  getback on Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:05 am

Looks like Great Fun !! man that takes me back just watching as I did also learn to fly with a PT-19 trainer ,,, I think I still need more training though  Very Happy lol! Enjoyed Kim keepem comeing !!! Getback
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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  Kim on Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:51 pm

getback wrote:Looks like Great Fun !! man that takes me back just watching as I did also learn to fly with a PT-19 trainer ,,, I think I still need more training though  Very Happy lol! Enjoyed Kim keepem comeing !!!  Getback

Yep...was a good way to wrap up an otherwise rainy day !

I bet if you got one of these on a set of lines, you'd be up to speed in no time!
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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  SuperDave on Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:56 pm

At first reading of the subject line I thought the poster was describing us people of advanced age.


 lol! 

SuperDave

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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  batjac on Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:07 pm

Kim wrote:
Suffering through yet another of Patrick's dissertations on the crumbyness of the Mr. Cox's wonderful little model, I preceded to fly each plane, pulling easy loops on the downwind side...in an attempt to demonstrate that they need to be "flown" through their loops, rather than have their pilot just haul in a bunch of energy-wasting "Up" control.

I assume you mean a controlled entry into a loop instead of just cranking in full up and letting the elevator stall, but if you'd enlighten us poor neophytes as to the proper way to loop a Cox PT-19, we'd be ever so grateful.

The Student Mark
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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  Cribbs74 on Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:30 pm

I find it funny that the one complaining actually has a model of one and on his own free will went in search for a spot to fly it.  lol! 


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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  ian1954 on Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:50 pm

I liked the video especially the looping loops! Planes older than some of our forum mambers and still flying!
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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  Kim on Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:54 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:I find it funny that the one complaining actually has a model of one and on his own free will went in search for a spot to fly it.  lol! 



Yeah...'course, the carping goes both ways with me and Patrick...and it's been pointed out to me more than once that if he bugs me so much, I ought to just quit flying with him.  

Good point, actually, but he DOES come around to some things eventually, and as my friend Beth has pointed out, if we're gonna keep flying, I'm gonna have to work with him on his level, and realize that I may also be his only positive social contact.

So, I swallow hard and just agree most of the time, except for when I see that I can make an obvious point that there MAY be another way to look at something.  I'll probably still carp a bit though...

As far as looping the PT-19's, I've always joked that we were able to do it only because we didn't know we couldn't!

One mod we always did that may have unknowingly helped us was the installation of a tailwheel.  I found out real quick (with my first QZ-19) that the 'tail stake" the model comes with wasn't good for anything other than breaking the rear end out of the plane when it dug into the grass.  I figured later that the slightly rearward CG location helps make the trainer a bit more maneuverable.





I also move the pushrod up to the hole closest to the hinge.  I've never experienced what I could absolutely describe as tail-stalling...more just a sudden deceleration of the plane as that wide wing goes hard against it's relative wind.  This happens when the pilot just jerks in a bunch of up-control, with the old dog loosing it's juice just as it goes vertical and starts in-circle, performing that dreaded, line-eating hammerhead/spin we've all seen.

The trick, as I see it, is to feed in the up command smoothly, increasing to full "up" as the PT goes over the top.  This is one of the things that is lost on my bud Patrick, as he's what I call a "mechanical" flyer...he knows up and down, but hasn't learned the 'feel' of the plane as it flys.  He just hauls up and hopes for the best.



Speaking of line tension, the PT also needs a tip weight...I use a penny or nickle, and have found that this REALLY helps it go on over the top without a tendency to come in and visit it's pilot.



Of course, you got to have a good-running engine, and in spite of the general preference toward 5-3 props, I STILL prefer a 6-3 for these guys.  If you can get a 6-3 to going around 13-14K, you're in business.

It's admittedly an exercise of balancing between the theories of "Rock-on-a-String" and actual aerodynamic stuff...with both having a say.

The PT WILL loop from level with a good engine run, but I like to cheat, and start things with a wingover (more or less) or dive to get things going.  This is how the REAL ones do it, so it could truthfully be called a "Scale Maneuver"!!!
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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  Kim on Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:05 pm

ian1954 wrote:I liked the video especially the looping loops! Planes older than some of our forum mambers and still flying!

Thanks Ian!

The old dogs keep on flying !

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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  Cribbs74 on Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:11 pm

I didn't catch the video the first go around. Impressive Kim, I didn't know the PT cpuld even do that! Stock engine to boot!
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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  batjac on Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:21 pm

Kim, I see in a lot of your videos, you do pilot's view on the camera.  What rig do you use to get the video?  Sometimes I see your arm, and sometimes not.  Do you use a hat cam, or what?

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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  Kim on Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:07 pm

Yo Mark,

On that video, I was using a GoPro camera on a home-made stand.  I was just holding it during the taping, but I can also set it on the ground and position it to catch almost half of the flight circle.  





I also use a regular digital video camera...aiming it along side the handle...mostly with the intent of getting fairly-focused, zoomed still frames from it that the GoPro can't make:

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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  1/2A Nut on Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:55 am

Well done on the vid can you dial in a tad zoom? I have two PT 19's at the moment owned one as a kid and had to have them again. I have TD cylinders installed and high compression heads allowing me to run them a hair rich to soak the plastic around the engine bay to reduce the chance of exhaust heat melting the edge of the plastic.  Thumbs Up 

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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  Theo Kleynhans on Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:28 am

Great to see this Kim. I have never seen a PT-19 fly before this.

I bought one from a guy a few months ago that is almost brand new. Only flown twice. I think I also need to get it out and fly it for a bit.

Nice video work Kim.

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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  Kim on Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:21 am

Hey 1/2A!

The guys here got me to using Spiderwire a while back, and I've been flying my PT's on 35 feet of the stuff.  I've mostly used the 15 lb strength, and while it was a hassle at first...wanting to tangle and all...I've apparently learned to treat it properly, as I've had less and less problems.  

You can wind in a LOT of loops and the stuff still slides over it's self just fine...which is important...as the PT's can't pull outside loops to unwind them (at least MINE can't !!!)

I usually fly the .049s and such on 25% Sig Champion fuel, and still have some GlowplugBoy 24% I got a while back.

I can zoom the video by going to a different camera (or maybe using the GoPro--still teaching myself about that thing), but with much more zoom than I used in this one, the plane becomes really hard to track and the video difficult to watch.

I'm been experimenting with plane-mounted cameras, and haven't yet tried some of the new, HD Key Fob versions on the PT's...that's on the project list.  The main problem so far is getting the tiny cameras insulated from the .049's vibration, which caused some distortion of the video:





You MAY have a Model Airplane Addiction IF:  Playing with the Toys you have conflicts with the arrival of the toys you've ordered !!!



Last edited by Kim on Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  Kim on Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:30 am

Theo Kleynhans wrote:Great to see this Kim. I have never seen a PT-19 fly before this.

I bought one from a guy a few months ago that is almost brand new. Only flown twice. I think I also need to get it out and fly it for a bit.

Nice video work Kim.

Theo

Thanks Theo!  

Be sure to get some flying photos of that rascal!!  Maybe put a tailskid or wheel on the back end, unless you can fly it on smooth dirt or (shudder!) concrete.  That tail stake sure loves to break out the rear fuse.

I think it would be cool to have a "Cox PT-19 Marathon" in the manner of the Brothers of The Ring's "Ringmaster Marathon".  Like the immortal Ringmaster, these little guys are EVERYWHERE across the globe!

'Course, with my current record of participation in our contests, I'd probably be the only one to fail in taking part!
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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  batjac on Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:45 pm

Well, unless someone objects, or has a different day,

I hereby proclaim September 20th to be International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day!

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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  Kim on Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:36 pm

batjac wrote:Well, unless someone objects, or has a different day,

I hereby proclaim September 20th to be International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day!

The Presumptuous Mark

Leave it to the Presumptuous Mark to take up the Banner !!!

SEPTEMBER 20th !!!!!

Now, let me go find my Calendar Book !!!
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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  Kim on Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:33 pm

OKAY....It's Officially UN-Official !!!

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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  roddie on Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:40 pm

Hey Kim! Always a treat to read your posts! Did the PT-19 ever come with a L/H prop? It seems to me that the one I have.. "did" originally.. including a L/H "cam-style" spring-starter. (I can't imagine where else I would have gotten the spring-starter) I can't remember what it had when I bought it back in the 90's. A L/H prop should eliminate the need for a tip-weight.

One thing I did, way back when... was to mount a single AA battery-holder inside the fuse over the CG... and soldered together a harness with a micro toggle switch just forward of the front windscreen.. with a cannibalized/hard-wired Cox glow-clip to the head. Cold-starts required more amperage to light the plug... but once the engine was hot... I could re-fuel.. flip the toggle switch and re-launch in seconds! The tiny toggle switch looked kinda' cool where I had it mounted... (like a "stick") and the wiring harness was all hidden inside the fuse.

As if the model wasn't already heavy enough...  lol!

Here's the "old" fuse that shows where I mounted the battery holder and the toggle-switch.



I ordered a new fuse and fuel tank from Cox in 1994. The fuse was $6.00 and the tank was 68 cents.



Here's my PT-19 as she sits today. I noticed recently, that the fuel tank (which I do have) is not attached. I think I recall that it kept falling off. (haven't flown it in years.. and this September 20th it will be ready for Mark's challenge.. possibly with a 6-7cc wedge-tank mounted in there somewhere)



Last edited by roddie on Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  Kim on Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:05 pm

roddie wrote:Hey Kim! Always a treat to read your posts! Did the PT-19 ever come with a L/H prop? It seems to me that the one I have.. "did" originally.. including a L/H "cam-style" spring-starter. (I can't imagine where else I would have gotten the spring-starter) I can't remember what it had when I bought it back in the 90's. A L/H prop should eliminate the need for a tip-weight.

One thing I did, way back when... was to mount a single AA battery-holder inside the fuse over the CG... and soldered together a harness with a micro toggle switch just forward of the front windscreen.. with a cannibalized/hard-wired Cox glow-clip to the head. Cold-starts required more amperage to light the plug... but once the engine was hot... I could re-fuel.. flip the toggle switch and re-launch in seconds! The tiny toggle switch looked kinda' cool where I had it mounted... (like a "stick") and the wiring harness was all hidden inside the fuse.

As if the model wasn't already heavy enough...  lol!

Thanks Roddie!

I want to think that some of them did, but not sure....these poor things got so little of their original stuff!!! The my PT's just get the "Penny Treatment" either way...feel like it brings them good luck !!!

Cool deal on the flight-pack! My poor QZ had various "Attachment Experiments" tried on it...like a penlight taped across the pilots' heads (didn't do much), and for a brief time, had a "Fly by Night" kit from America's Hobby Center (We were somewhat obsessed about flying at night).

As you pointed out: The LAST thing a Cox PT-19 needs is extra ballast !!!!

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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  roddie on Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:28 pm

Kim wrote:

for a brief time, had a "Fly by Night" kit from America's Hobby Center (We were somewhat obsessed about flying at night).


Imagine what you could put together for night-flying with today's LED technology! You should re-visit that Kim. It would be a nice effect for when twilight falls; after a nice afternoon of flying.
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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  Cribbs74 on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:11 pm

Here is a friend of mine doing some night flying in Clovis NM.

He did some neat LED work with this little foam flyer.

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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  RknRusty on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:26 pm

That's really cool. I would like to try and catch the night show at Joe Nall next year. They say it's amazing and goes on into the wee hours of the morning.

Now I have a reason to get my PT flying again, September 20. It's not far from airworthy anyway.
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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Post  1/2A Nut on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:55 pm

I can hear Ethel a half a mile away screaming to her old man... "aaaaaahhhhh Good Lord thars an alien space craft flopping about just over yonder way! Git yor rifle paw that dang thing might come at us next!!"

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Re: Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

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