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Post  Ken Cook on Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:52 pm

My flying partner Dan has purchased this contraption recently which has been very interesting to say the least. Dan is testing it in this video with our Guillows trainer we use at our stunt field for training newcomers. This device has a patent date of 1949. I can't say for certain as to how old this particular piece is. Very well made unfortunately, the triangular gusset in which the line clips attach to has a mechanical advantage to the down leg vs the up. We all agree that making a new correct triangle would assist this hiccup.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=734190353317768&set=vb.513140418756097&type=2&theater

Here's a better up close picture of this device https://www.facebook.com/PhillyFliersCL/photos/a.513142608755878.1073741825.513140418756097/731890976881039/?type=1&theater


This reminds me of Ian's Around the Pole flights. Ken
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Post  Cribbs74 on Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:17 pm

That is pretty darn cool Ken.

Too bad it wasn't more responsive. Maybe it could be made to be.
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Post  roddie on Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:38 pm

Getting the "control-ratio" worked out shouldn't be much of a problem.. It could possibly have an adjustment built-in. What I did notice.. is that it's designed around a counter-clockwise circle. Wouldn't it be better for rotary-valve induction (most) engines, running R/H props.. to build models for this set up; to fly a clockwise circle? What I'm getting at is; for the physically challenged flyer.. that this system would definitely appeal to..... the more positive line-tension associated with clockwise control-line flight would certainly make a difference in launching.. and in breezy weather. The airplane would just be set-up with opposite control-linkage and offsets. "Stunting" the model may be challenging.. but not more so; than if it were flying a ccw circle. A handicapped flyer would probably be very satisfied with being able to do "roundy-rounds".. and wing-overs.

Ian and I have been sharing ideas about RTP/"outside the circle" flight.. and I really think it deserves more attention.. especially for the handicapped flyer.

This appears to be a patented system shown. Someone posted a comment on the Philly-Flyer's FB page about it possibly being a "Goldberg" system. Is this correct Ken?
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Post  Cribbs74 on Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:38 pm

I was thinking it would be cool to lay down and fly the plane like Dan did. sleep
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Post  RknRusty on Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:46 pm

Roddie I think that was a reference to Rube Goldberg. lol! But only at first glance, because a Rube Goldberg device is traditionally a Kludge, which this is not. It's simply elegant(the antonym of kludge). I love it. Ian, come look!
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Post  Ken Cook on Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:57 pm

I had the device in my hand last weekend. This is quite heavy and extremely well built. I was more amazed at the fact it was in my hand and I didn't take close ups of the manufacturer label. I was just in awe in regards to the mechanics of it. I was really wondering how many of these even still exist today and if one came across it, would you know what it is? It reminds me of something you would see on a railroad siding.

I see no benefit in flying clockwise. I never needed to nor would I want to. Of course this is my opinion. I've flown some pretty hot speed planes and never had the need to fly clockwise. This is mainly due to a properly trimmed plane and proper tip weight and properly trained launcher. A stunter or a sport plane really doesn't develop enough torque to roll inboard like a speed plane would. Setting up your gear properly and placing drag on the outboard wheel is all that's necessary to provide line tension on take off. Once the plane is in the air, a properly trimmed plane is going to give you line tension. My racing clown has engine inset and the leadouts swept as far forward as possible and this plane doesn't fly into the circle. Ken
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Post  getback on Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:06 pm

I had some videO problems or something butttt final got to see it very cool!!! Does look like the controls at the junction where the line come together ... the rods at the triangle are funky looking . Had to see the pic again that is wild i have thought of maybe a servo would work for RC round and round outside the circle Cool   GOOD STUFF KEN , Thanks Eric
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Post  Oldenginerod on Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:48 am

I recall seeing a video once of a chair that was placed outside the circle which had a joystick connected to a tower in the centre of the circle, so rather than the control lines being close to the ground like Ken's friend's contraption, the lines were held higher, more like shoulder-hight. Looked like a pretty relaxed way of flying. I've tried, but I can't find it on the internet again.

Rod.
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Post  Ken Cook on Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:51 am

Ron, Dan can really showboat it up a bit especially at Brodak's. Joe Gilbert and Dan can provide quite an interesting show between the two of them. Routinely laying on their backs flying overhead maneuvers is pretty interesting. Dan flying the two Ringmaster's simultaneously is also pretty cool. Ken
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Post  ian1954 on Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:17 am

The thing I like about this is that the pilot gets to see more of the plane rather than just the profile. The flight definitely looked smooth and relaxed and almost certainly more relaxing that spinning around but damp grass wouldn't be very pleasant to lay on!

I did wonder about line tension. An unexpected line slackening would certainly be disconcerting. I expect it would be better to trim the plane the traditional way before connecting it to this apparatus.

I had a bit of trouble with the "Ruby Goldberg" / "Kludge" portion in these postings. After a bit of searching I realised that the equipment had been described as "Heath Robinson". It certainly doesn't look kludge to me - it works. Certainly no more kludge than any control line linkages. (Or this site constantly miscorrecting  my spellings!)

I must get around to a longer line set up with my RTP progress.
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Post  Surfer_kris on Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:53 am

Haha, that's a funny invention... Smile

There was also a control line "chair", for the balance or otherwise impaired, a few years ago. Now one can even put the chair outside the circle and not have to move at all...

It does seem to remove one of the upsides with CL though, and that is the direct contact with the plane that one can have through the lines. Remove that and one might as well do RC and enjoy a full three-dimensions in space rather than just two (albeit a curved surface on a half-sphere).
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