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Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

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Mad Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Kim on Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:28 am

This Cox Engine Winter Tradition continues, and looks like the weekend of January 24th & 25th will be the date this coming year.  It will again be run in my heated shop, so the conditions for each engine run will be as identical as possible.

The Race rules and categories will be pretty much the same as last year's with a few adjustments, and I'll have them copied here in a bit.

One possible difference, to be determined by a consensus of the competitors, is the possibility of using the new Cox Super Power Fuel.   There will be a considerable amount more of running/testing under the bridge before I have to order fuel for the race, and I thought it might be appropriate to recognize Dave (Kruzn) Sproul's efforts in bringing us a quality alternative source for fueling our little gems.

Please let me know what you think of this idea, we have plenty of time to decide, and I'll be glad to go with what the group would like to do.

Tach Race Class of 2014



Last edited by Kim on Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:46 pm; edited 15 times in total
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  pkrankow on Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:04 am

Someone will have to run the two fuels side by side and see if they tach the same.
Phil
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  getback on Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:18 pm

Can I get in on this years TACH RACE ?? Eric Huh...
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:20 pm

It's not by invite. Anyone can enter.
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  crankbndr on Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:19 pm

Glad your running the event again, I don't think there is many that could run a better show. Using the new fuel is great, I'm going to buy some too. Clapping cheers Beer Cheers Hand Shake
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Oldenginerod on Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:12 pm

If you check out Kim's picture from the last race you will note that my engines came in 6th & 7th. At least they weren't both last in their class. Looks like I'm gonna have to do some work to improve the status of the southern hemisphere competitors. I guess it will depend on what classes are available. There was some talk of introducing a "stock" class rather than "novice" as there was in previous years. My last entries didn't really match the classes. My Unlimited was more like a Mouse & my Mouse was more like a "Stock."

Rod.
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:43 pm

Not sure if I will compete this year, but I would really like to see 35% used. I would also like to see a prop change although we can't always get what we want. Very Happy
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Kim on Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:01 pm

Thanks you crank, I appreciate it!

The main concern I had was that the fuel would be safe for the engines entered in the race, and since they'll all be run on the same fuel either way, it would still be a fairly level playing ground.

The gray 5-3's are still gonna be about the best all-around standard for the race, and some members are concerned about higher nitro %'s.

I'm talking with Mark about setting the outlines for a "Stock" class that would be fair, and allow participation by those who don't want to do extensive mods on their engines.  We'll be figuring it out here shortly.
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:17 pm

Kim,

I was thinking out loud, when I commit an engine to a race such as this I am not concerned about longevitity.

I just like high numbers. We could probably hit 22K if we changed a couple variables.

Anyway, it is what it is... Thanks for taking responsibility again this year!!!

Ron
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Mark Boesen on Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:22 pm

Guys,
We can use any prop we want as it would be the same load for every engine, same as fuel type or the outside temp., that's what makes the Tach Race so special as it minimize all the variables as much as humanly possible and makes a comparison of one engine to another much more accurate.
The reason we use the grey Cox competition 5x3 prop is that prop have been around almost as long as the engines have, it was designed for those engine and made by the same company and was used in competition for many years. The bottom line is a stronger engine is gonna spin it faster, period.
If you remember we did run APC 4.75x4 the first year and the results were a lot higher then the Cox prop and probably at or above the recommended "red line" of the those engines, i.e. the ball socket. I don't care if we want to change back to APC props or even a .020 prop, i'll let the CD make that call.
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Kim on Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:57 pm

I'll of course be willing to run whatever the Forum and .049 Group decide. It's important to remember that I AM just a sport flyer and can only try to run the Race as fairly as possible for all entrants.

I hope we can have an open discussion here and over on the .049 Collectors Group, and get everything squared away to the satisfaction of the majority of the players.

The APC's are surely an option, though I'd appreciate help in setting them up and balancing them as I don't typically use them.
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:38 pm

Kim,

I don't want to upset the balance of nature or anything. I was just wanting more of a "wow" factor.

The Cox 5x3 may be a prolific prop, but so is the APC. To that end APC still produces props for our engines. One of the very few I might add. It wouldn't hurt to give them a little business.

I think the new fuel combined with the APC might make for an exciting event. Keep in mind we have only tested the beta fuel samples and it may be a bit before the fuel is in full production and available for use.

Like I said I don't want to upset anything so whatever you decide is fine with me.

Ron
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  RknRusty on Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:43 pm

I'm fine with whatever nitro and prop we use. I'm an RPM and nitro freak like Cribbs, so when I play in my own shop I like to spin up RPMs that makes people dive under the table and hide. However for a level playing field I'm okay with whatever the CD decides. APCs are inexpemsive from eBay's Omnimodels.com at 1.99 shipping and a couple of bucks per prop. But lots of people already have the gray Cox 5x3 in their stash. I'm out of Sig 35, my usual fuel, so I'll order whatever the contest fuel will be. The new Cox fuel would be a nice gesture of support to Dave Sproul, but it is 25% sport, not racing fuel. It is very good stuff though.

I'll balance the contest props again this year if that would help. Or let me know if I can contribute anything. I have a Black Widow I made a video about a couple of years ago that might be able to compete. It's never flown since I built it.
Rusty

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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Kim on Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:50 pm

Thanks Guys. I'll surely take you up on your offer Rusty!

Running 35% fuel is fine if the members want to give it a go this time around. I know that I'm considered the CD in this deal, but want the Race to continue being fun for the whole crew, and will go with whatever we figure out here.
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:14 am

Not wanting to throw cold water on the rev-heads, but I would certainly prefer to see us stick to 25% nitro fuel, regardless of which brand.  Sure, we'll see higher figures, but how then do we compare any improvements we have made to our engines from previous years?  If everyone is happy with the quality of the Cox fuel, I think that fits well with the fact that we're a Cox based forum.  To that end, I also think it's appropriate to use a Cox prop.  Admit it guys, we are working with old technology here.  If we're going for world record breaking revs, then have an "open" competition where people can use whatever engine, fuel, prop, parts, climate, whatever helps with max rpm.  As for this competition, there is already a benchmark, so I'd prefer to stick with it.  It may then be interesting to allow owners to run their own tests on the same engine using different fuel & prop, just to see what sort of gain can be made.
Just my Two Cents  worth.

Rod.
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  pkrankow on Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:47 am

I'd like a setup that I can bench here at home and optimize. If the fuel tachs the same as Sig Champion 25% then use the fuel (several tank fulls of both fuels run the same day through 2 or 3 engines, each). I have a number of props, buying a new, common prop is fine. I would rather not buy different fuel, especially one I do not normally run.

Phil

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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:05 am

Oldenginerod wrote:Not wanting to throw cold water on the rev-heads, but I would certainly prefer to see us stick to 25% nitro fuel, regardless of which brand.  Sure, we'll see higher figures, but how then do we compare any improvements we have made to our engines from previous years?  If everyone is happy with the quality of the Cox fuel, I think that fits well with the fact that we're a Cox based forum.  To that end, I also think it's appropriate to use a Cox prop.  Admit it guys, we are working with old technology here.  If we're going for world record breaking revs, then have an "open" competition where people can use whatever engine, fuel, prop, parts, climate, whatever helps with max rpm.  As for this competition, there is already a benchmark, so I'd prefer to stick with it.  It may then be interesting to allow owners to run their own tests on the same engine using different fuel & prop, just to see what sort of gain can be made.
Just my Two Cents  worth.

Rod.

I'm such a rookie here that I don't know what a "Tach Race" even is. But I would think that whomever has the highest reving engine "wins"?

Why not two events, one with standardized fuels, engines etc. and another where anything goes. Melds the old and the new.
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  fredvon4 on Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:08 am

I am planning to enter this years for first time as I have spent some time tinkering...grin

I would like to see a Tee Dee class

I think the "stock" (novice) class is a good idea

I think supporting the New Cox Fuel is a great idea

I too, like Ron and Rusty, would like to have the Unlimited class use 35% and APC for the same WOW! factor.

But hasten to add that some of the fellows that want to compete every year prefer to see % improvement over last years standard, and that is quite understandable

I also realize that adding classes and additional variable like different props and fuels greatly complicates Kim's already daunting task

That all said, this yearly contest is fun to see and read about....Great work by all involved and I support what ever the CD decides
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Kim on Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:52 am

rsv1cox wrote:
Oldenginerod wrote:Not wanting to throw cold water on the rev-heads, but I would certainly prefer to see us stick to 25% nitro fuel, regardless of which brand.  Sure, we'll see higher figures, but how then do we compare any improvements we have made to our engines from previous years?  If everyone is happy with the quality of the Cox fuel, I think that fits well with the fact that we're a Cox based forum.  To that end, I also think it's appropriate to use a Cox prop.  Admit it guys, we are working with old technology here.  If we're going for world record breaking revs, then have an "open" competition where people can use whatever engine, fuel, prop, parts, climate, whatever helps with max rpm.  As for this competition, there is already a benchmark, so I'd prefer to stick with it.  It may then be interesting to allow owners to run their own tests on the same engine using different fuel & prop, just to see what sort of gain can be made.
Just my Two Cents  worth.

Rod.

I'm such a rookie here that I don't know what a "Tach Race" even is.  But I would think that whomever has the highest reving engine "wins"?

Why not two events, one with standardized fuels, engines etc. and another where anything goes.  Melds the old and the new.  

Hey,
"Tach Race"was started by Mark Boesen and his buddy Chris over on Marks .049 Collectors Group' as way to give the guys something to ward off the long winter days.
Chris ran it several times, and I came to running it a few years ago.
The idea is to have a neutral ground where engines are run on a specific fuel with a specific prop, in as identical conditions as possible. I run the race in my heated shop to give everyone as square a deal as possible.
All of the races I've CD'd are here on the Forum and can be found with a search by year.
I'll re-post everything here, once Mark and I get all the particulars nailed down.

Also, I'm retired now, and have a BUNCH more time to do these things, so a Tach Race Category with alternate fuels and props would not be out of the question. I just need all competitors in agreement, because, as I've said before, I get a slight case of nerves at just having others' engines in my possession, and don't need the guilt of blowing up someone's pride and joy.

It's always a lot of fun once the thing gets going, and even more with the afterglow when I've confirmed that everyone engines are back home !
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  getback on Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:18 am

I am new and GOOD with what ever Ya'll decide , If mine BLOWS up it was not ur fault I would never hold that over you. ( just send the pieces back )  lol!   Please post the rules after a decision has been made. Thanks Eric Pumpkin
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  pkrankow on Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:22 am

For bladder fed and pressure tapped engines it is a good idea to provide the entire fuel system with a diagram to the setup.

For unlimited fuel and prop maybe the fuel and prop also need shipped since it is about an entire system and not so much what the engine can do according to the specified system.

Last, what is the requirement for a "craft" unlimited engine? That is a large number of the parts are built instead of bought. Merely re-bushing with a brass main is not a craft engine. Are they eligible? (no I don't have one ready, and I don't expect to have one this year.)

What ever happened to the slow tach race?

Phil
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  dckrsn on Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:11 pm

getback wrote:I am new and GOOD with what ever Ya'll decide , If mine BLOWS up it was not ur fault I would never hold that over you. ( just send the pieces back )  lol!   Please post the rules after a decision has been made. Thanks Eric Pumpkin
I'm with Eric here, in fact, I'd be flattered if my entry blew up on the test stand. Smoking
Hasn't happened yet, and maybe there should be a prize for it.
Not funny, I know. A prop flying off an engine is scary enough for me.  affraid
With all I've read in this thread so far, Kim should be canonized for
dealing with all the variables and suggestions so far.
Thanks Kim.

The "stand back and let him breath people", Bob
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  getback on Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:18 pm

lol! lol! Bob lol! lol! I think he may have a sword to deflect flying parts Very Happy Very Happy Thank You!!! Kim Airplane
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  RknRusty on Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:01 pm

getback wrote:lol! lol! Bob lol! lol! I think he may have a sword to deflect flying parts Very Happy Very Happy Thank You!!! Kim Airplane
Nah, just a bucket over his head.

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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Kim on Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:42 am

Thanks for all the participation guys! Mark and I are following it, and trading notes on the ideas. I've told him that we can expand the categories as far as we want...just got to keep them within my abilities to pull off.

Appreciate the compliments...it's GREAT to be part of something like this with all these great members!

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