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Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Kim on Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:51 am

Per Paul's Suggestion...Does this sound good to the Tee Dee guys?



"1. I think there may be merit in running the lighter load 4.75D X 4P APC prop & 35% nitro fuel in the TeeDee Class. This should yield the overall top RPM's of all the engines & ought to satisfy those who really enjoy seeing  " The big numbers"."
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Cribbs74 on Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:49 pm

Yes!
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  microflitedude on Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:38 pm

Sounds perfect as long as you are OK with it Kim - I know the APC's are harder on the fingers.
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  pkrankow on Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:53 pm

Mark Boesen wrote:
pkrankow wrote:Baby bee proposal:

5cc stock fuel tank (darn, my baby stunt bees are eliminated now, I bored the venturis out on both.  Most of my non-stunt baby tanks are probably out for the same reason)
unported back plate

A go/nogo gauge should be able to verify this within reason unless screened.

Crank to case fit, and piston to cylinder fit are allowed to be adjusted within reason.  Head and head shims may be selected within reason.  A brass bushed case would be outside the spirit of the competition, although technically allowable as adjusting the fit of the case.

Phil

Stock means stock, The way it was made at the factory? I think that's the best way to look at it...was it built with a cylinder shim or a brass bushing?

These things came from the factory in many different configurations, as STOCK. Different cylinders, different pistons, different cases, different heads, different reeds, different tanks, different back plates... The easiest level field to get is intake diameters, and no modifications to the cylinder and piston, whatever cylinder it is. So what IS stock on an engine that over the decades it is made had changes cycled into production without a break?

In part this is to come up with a class that can be judged. Popping the head and inspecting for grinding, measuring the venturi and back plate diameters, sure. These could be measured easily. Tearing each and every engine down to judge would be insane!

A cylinder shim would be no. That is adjusting the engine timing. Similarly a shaved case or piston would be out.

A brass bushed case on the crank is generally reconditioned to as close to stock as reasonable, and would require pulling the crank out the verify this or not. I think it would be outside the spirit of the competition but not easily verified. If the case was restored to original tolerances then it should be fine and not run significantly different from the anodized aluminum.

This limits the adjustments to the engine to polishing the crank, adjusting the compression via head shim count, and running the engine in prior to sending it.

Phil
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Mark Boesen on Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:32 pm

Hi Rod, Everybody,

I didn't realize the current Babe Bee with the "twin slit" exhaust is a dual intake port engine, I'd think that would be a considerable advantage over a single port engine.

So now what, do we allow a dual port "slit" type cylinders like the current Babe Bees and allow retro fitting of these newer cylinders to older Babe Bee & Golden Bee engines?

Or, stay with the older open exhaust single ports only Babe Bee/Golden Bee?

Or, maybe just go with late model Sure Starts with the grey snorkel back plate?

The idea was to use the most common engine out there with no modifications, but it seems there's no easy answers.
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Oldenginerod on Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:55 am

Remember, the later slit exhaust cylinders may be duel bypass, but they don't have SPI, which can make a huge difference to power.  There would need to be comparisons done, but I don't know how much advantage the later cylinders would be.
I guess you've chosen Babe Bee to avoid the problem of people sending in a "stock" Black Widow, or even a Killer Bee or Venom, but my original thoughts about a stock class weren't to limit it to one type of engine only.  It was just a way to allow people to be involved when they weren't into hot-rodding engines for all-out speed.  Maybe some folks have a couple of nice running engines but aren't mechanically minded and just want to know what they'll do in a controlled test.  It's not about winning but just competing.   (Though winning is always nice, so I hear  Wink ).

Rod.
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Kim on Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:13 am

Yeah, Mark and I are still working on it.
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  crankbndr on Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:06 am

I really don't get it, if it not about winning and just getting a number in controlled test any engine can be entered in Mouse or unlimited.
No need to over think it. Two Cents Two Cents
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Mark Boesen on Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:44 am

If there's prizes, glory and fame involved, there's going to be competition.

I thought it would be good to include products sold by Bernie (Cox International) but, never had the need to use a "slit type" cylinder I wasn't really aware that they changed to dual ports when I suggested including them. I'm leaning toward a "Vintage Babe Bee" class (including Golden Bee) for open port, single cylinders only. The only modification/change is to allow any reed to be used.
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Paulgibeault on Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:31 pm

I really like the idea of including single port Golden Bee's as well, very Nostalgic!

Cheers, Paul
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  getback on Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:34 pm

A Men Mark!
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Kim on Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:33 am

Awright Folks, Here We Go:

Mark and I have been knocking this back and forth for some time, trying to get a fair set of rules for this year's Tach Race.  The biggest obstacle has been composing reasonable rules for the third category that was originally called "Novice".

On this go-around, we have decided to narrow it to Babe Bees and Golden Bees, and call it the "Babe Bee Vintage Class".  This will allow a venue for guys who'd like to see their stock Bee's compete against others without modifying the classic little engines.

The sure start engines presented so many variables as to make it impossible to lay down rules to give a fair race, at least this time.  It can be revisited in the next Tach Race, and I hope members will see and understand our dilemma.

We've also re-worked the other classes for more WOW effect, and hope this is good with the majority. Please do your best to make these as "Redneck-Friendly" as possible so that I'll have a reasonable chance of getting them started.  I'll be practicing my fuel bladder technique over the coming weeks, and should be competent to run any of those fuel systems if they're entered.

A BIG thanks to Mark for rewording and spotting mistakes in the original set of rules, which we e-mailed back and forth between us a bunch of times over the past few days.  Even though I've read and re-read this thing about a dozen times, there MAY still be mistakes here and there, and I will appreciate anyone letting me know about them.

As each engine arrives, it will photographed next to it's return mailing label.  This has worked for me in the past races as far as keeping track of engines and their owners.  I'll also post a note here, so that participants know they made it.

As always before, please let me know of any questions, and between Mark and myself, we ought to be able to answer them fairly quickly.


Tach Race 2015


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UNLIMITED

Any combination of Cox parts, reed or rear rotor.
Any porting, grinding, chopping, you think will work.
Any head/glow plug or glowhead, RR-1 or Rear rotor type of rear induction systems are fine.
NO front induction TD/Medallion crank/crankcase. NO Cyclon, VA, & Norvel stock or modified to reed induction. Intent is that these be Cox-based engines like the Black Widow, Sure-Start, Space Hopper, RR-1, Space Hopper, etc.

Fuel will be Sig 35%
Prop will be an APC 4.75x4
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MOUSE 1

Any AMA legal Cox rear reed, with tank. Except no Cyclon conversion.
See AMA rules for more info.

Fuel will be Sig 35%
Prop will be an APC 4.75x4

AMA Class Mouse Racing 101:

The engine part is really simple. There are ONLY three criteria.

1. The engine maximum displacement must not be larger than .0504 cubic inches.

2. The engine MUST use a reed valve. (This means that 99% of competitors use a Cox product [All...in our Tach Race's case] and the other 1% machine or make their own type of reed induction system)
***The Cox RR-1 Rear Disc induction engine is therefore not allowed.

3. The engine MUST draw it's fuel from an attached, integral tank. (This means that 99% of competitors use a Cox Black Widow tanks, and the other 1% machine or make their own integral tank. Separate tanks are not allowed.

Engine modifications are unlimited. You can grind away, chrome plate, port, polish, & modify to your heart's content.

And that's IT! How much simpler can it get?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
TEE DEE CLASS

.049 or .051
Rules same as Unlimited.
Included fuel systems allowed.

Prop: APC 4.75x4
Fuel: Sig 35%
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
BABE BEE VINTAGE CLASS

1. Any Babe Bee or Golden Bee with single intake port cylinder and open exhaust ports. (no aftermarket parts)
2. No modifying of any parts other than replacement of like parts. (no, machining, grinding, filing, lightening, etc.)
3. Reeds- any factory type replacement. (Mylar reeds have been used since 1980)
4. Stock factory heads, no high compression heads, any number of head gaskets
5. *Any winning engine will be Subject to inspection by Contest Director.

*Please note: Cox International sells original type glowheads, they also sells high compression glowheads that look the same...see #4)

Contest Fuel will be the new Cox Super Power Fuel, if available...if not, we'll go with 20% Sig.
Prop: We're going to use a 5x4 'retro prop' from Cox International: http://coxengines.ca/cox-.049-propeller-5-x-4.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
.020 UNLIMITED

Same as the 'Big Boys' Unlimited rules listed above.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
.020 PEE WEE

Un-modified Pee Wee .020's
1. Any Stock Pee Wee .020
2. No modifying of any parts other than replacement of like parts. (no, machining, grinding, filing, lightening, etc.)
3. Reeds- any factory type replacement.
4. Stock factory heads, no high compression heads, any number of head gaskets
5. *Any winning engine will be Subject to inspection by Contest Director.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Both Classes:
Fuel: 35% Sig
Prop: Cox .020 Racing Propeller 4 x 2.5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Contestants will send engines (Limit one engine per class) in a returnable box with return label filled out (no priority mail) plus adequate funds to cover return shipping and insurance if desired.

Engines can be sent to either of these two addresses:

Kim Stricker
300 C.R. 326
Jackson, Missouri 63755

Kim Stricker
P.O. Box 6
Jackson, Missouri 63755

Cell: 573-576-5734


Last edited by Kim on Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Mark Boesen on Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:14 pm

Looks good Kim!
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  getback on Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:06 pm

Thanks For the Hard Work Kim and Mark , got my print out . Eric Small Cox Logo
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Cribbs74 on Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:14 pm

Shoot Kim,

Sorry for the reply delay. Looks good, I am very happy with the rules!
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Kim on Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:29 am

Thank you guys!

It's a considerable load off my mind just to have the rules posted, with what LOOKS like pretty clear terms.

I am normally pretty good at record-keeping and such, but for whatever reason the Tach Race seems to suffer a bit.

I finally found some clarification (THANK YOU PAUL !!!) of the Mouse Class Rules that may help guys like me who MUST have things in layman terms.

This is from Paul Gibeault, and it greatly helped me get a working understanding of the Mouse Class:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AMA Class Mouse Racing 101:

The engine part is really simple.  There are ONLY three criteria.

1.  The engine maximum displacement must not be larger than .0504 cubic inches.

2. The engine MUST use a reed valve.  (This means that 99% of competitors use a Cox product [All...in our Tach Race's case] and the other 1% machine or make their own type of reed induction system)
***The Cox RR-1 Rear Disc induction engine is therefore not allowed.

3.  The engine MUST draw it's fuel from an attached, integral tank.  (This means that 99% of competitors use a Cox Black Widow tanks, and the other 1% machine or make their own integral tank.  Separate tanks are not allowed.

Engine modifications are unlimited.  You can grind away, chrome plate, port, polish, & modify to your heart's content.

And that's IT!  How much simpler can it get?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you again, Paul !
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Mad 2015 Tach Race rules

Post  Paulgibeault on Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:30 pm

Hi Kim & Mark,

Everything looks quite fine. Good job!

" GENTLEMEN, PREPARE (for Kim) TO START YOUR ENGINES!! "

Cheers, Paul
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Kim on Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:28 pm

Guys!  

Kruzn Dave has offered to sponsor the fuel for this year's Tach Race, and I've accepted.

I'll be receiving 25% and 35% Cox Super Fuel (reformulated with castor) for the race in January.  Several tests of the new formula have been run by C.E.F. members, with no adverse effects on their engines, so I think it's only proper to take Dave up on his generous offer.  

This will be known-fresh fuel for the race, so we ought to have numbers we never saw before !!

Hope this is acceptable to everyone, and kudos to the positive attitude of Dave and Hobbico for giving us another source of good fuel !

Kim


Last edited by Kim on Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Oldenginerod on Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:20 pm

Thanks for the fuel Dave. Thumbs Up Any chance this stuff might get marketed in Australia? Warm
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Kim on Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:30 am

Just a Reminder/Bump...
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Kim on Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:08 pm

Hey Guys,

If possible, I'd like to get a general idea of the number of entries in each class for Tach Race 2015. I'm also working with Bernie and Matt, and need to give them an idea of this year's participation so we can get an idea of the break-down of prizes.

Thanks
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  dckrsn on Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:29 pm

I'm good for at least one, Kim.
Probably unlimited.
Bob
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  RknRusty on Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:08 pm

I'll be sending an Unlimited and possibly a Mouse-1.

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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Cribbs74 on Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:22 pm

Kinda torn.

I have been biting off more than I can chew lately.

Sign me up for unlimited bee and TD. If I can do another then I will let you know.

Ron
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

Post  Mark Boesen on Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:01 pm

I'm in for unlimited, mouse, Tee Dee and stock stocker babe bee.
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Mad Re: Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up

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