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Post  rsv1cox on Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:51 pm

After priming and flipping for around three minutes to no joy I got out my newly acquired Sullivan 1/2A electric starter and brought this Black Widow to life....running backwards.  Swapped polarity and off it went this time in the right direction.  50/50 chance maybe but it worked.  

Lovin' my new electric starter Pbucket

Just like the larger engines, apply the starter then hit the switch.  Life will be easier now but I know the cons, bent cranks etc.  but as long as I'm careful it works for me

Too bad though, to windy to fly but otherwise a nice day.  But wait, winter is working it's way East. Cold
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Post  balogh on Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:56 pm

I do it the other way around: bump the starter, release the start button, push the cone to the spinner and let its inertia drive the engine;; even if flooded, it will not break the conrod or crank pin, because the starter is not energized while driving the crankshaft.

Highly recommended especially for COX 010 and 020 powerplants, but works well with 049-s too.
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Post  roddie on Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:11 pm

I like those little green Sullivan starters.. and would probably have one, had I not built my own homemade starter from an old 540 can-motor years ago. It still works great. The only thing is; I must use a Tee Dee style spinner, because my drive-cone consists of a 1" long piece of automotive type fuel line, pressed onto a drive-gear on the can-motor's output shaft. It's "red-neck".. but it works. The only cost to build it was a momentary switch that I got from Radio Shack.

BTW... I LIKE that little airplane!
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Post  Cribbs74 on Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:33 pm

While I am not keen on starters, they do have their place. Usually when performing hot restarts on well used engines. Sometimes physical limitations require the use of a starter as well.

You have eluded to the dangers of using starters so I won't bore you with that. I will say this though, if your engine requires a starter to work properly then there must be something wrong.

A Bee engine in good tune only requires 1-2 flips be it by hand or spring starter. Actually, all my engines fire within a couple flips. Cox, Fox, K&B, O.S., Enya etc.

I fly a lot and never had the need to use a starter.

I am not saying not to use one, just it shouldn't really require it. It may be time to dissassemble and see what's up.

Those Hornet starters sure are neat though!

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Post  RknRusty on Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:34 pm

I just got a new starter too for my big ones. Balogh is very correct. I think the best way to use it is to hand rotate the prop 180* back off of compression, then bump the starter to the spinner to turn it only as much as you would manually flip the prop. Don't spin it at all if you can help it.
Just my 2cents.
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Post  706jim on Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:02 pm

I use an old Astroflight starter. Figure it cranks at 10k rpm's so prime is NOT required.

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Ramble on is one of my favourites, especially that harmonized feedback solo in the middle.

True genius Jimmy!
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Post  rsv1cox on Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:33 am

I like it too Roddie, I'm sure you know from my previous posts that it's the first model that my son and I built/flew together, and.......best possible news, last week I learned that he is transferring back to Virginia from Colorado.  My flying buddy is coming back. Flying

Lovin' my new electric starter Pbucket

I did experiment some with bump starting by engaging the switch before applying the starter to the spinner.  A combination of fading eyesight and 77 year old nerves kept me from hitting the spinner straight on, so I found starting it with the starter already correctly positioned on the spinner worked best for me.

I can't quite explain why this particular engine would not flip start.  Even with the electric starter engaged it took several seconds to pull the fuel/air mixture through the reed.  After that it started immediately every time.  Perhaps there was some debris caught under the reed.
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Post  ian1954 on Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:33 am

Not being able to flip start a Cox engine is a phenomena that I have experienced. Believe me, my flip starting techniques are beyond reproach - I may not have flown many but I now have started and run thousands of engines. (and have been bitten by many!)

I would say that Cox engines are easy starters but I have a medallion 049 that I have been unable to flick start. It starts easily with a starter motor, runs well but even when hot refuses to respond to my fingers.



Don't feel despondant about not being able to start a particular engine using manual dexterity.
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Post  rsv1cox on Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:13 am

Heck of a video Ian. Tough little airplane you have there. What, elevator control only? Guess that would be called pole flying. Looks like an unrestrained slip knot allowing some elevation control vertically along the pole.
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Post  roddie on Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:26 am

rsv1cox wrote:I like it too Roddie, I'm sure you know from my previous posts that it's the first model that my son and I built/flew together, and.......best possible news, last week I learned that he is transferring back to Virginia from Colorado.  My flying buddy is coming back. Flying

Lovin' my new electric starter Pbucket

I did experiment some with bump starting by engaging the switch before applying the starter to the spinner.  A combination of fading eyesight and 77 year old nerves kept me from hitting the spinner straight on, so I found starting it with the starter already correctly positioned on the spinner worked best for me.

I can't quite explain why this particular engine would not flip start.  Even with the electric starter engaged it took several seconds to pull the fuel/air mixture through the reed.  After that it started immediately every time.  Perhaps there was some debris caught under the reed.

That's great news for sure!! Yes I remember the model...

Lovin' my new electric starter Ringma10

You two can build and fly together again! I hope his transfer goes through early enough for him to be to be home for the holidays.

The electric starter I built, is not very powerful.. but has a very high no-load speed. I only apply "slight" pressure to the Tee Dee style spinner. If the drive-cone "slips".. I disconnect the glow-driver and hand-prop a few revolutions. A flooded engine will easily stall my electric starter.. but I don't take any chances.

The only reasons why I made my own 1/2A starter were; "to see if it would work".. and I was already lugging a power-panel/12v battery out to the field anyway. Spring-starters have always worked just fine though.. and you can fit a 1/2 pint bottle of fuel, a 2D battery-box, Cox glow-clip, tools and spares in a sandwich bag. I like the glow-plug continuity feedback you get through the panels ammeter though.. Hmm.. I wonder if one could connect a 1.5V LED/pigtail into the Cox glow-clip's wiring for verifying continuity? Maybe this "mad model scientist" will pose this question in a separate thread... What?
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Post  KariFS on Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:56 am

rsv1cox wrote:
I can't quite explain why this particular engine would not flip start.  Even with the electric starter engaged it took several seconds to pull the fuel/air mixture through the reed.  After that it started immediately every time.  Perhaps there was some debris caught under the reed.

Could it be an air/vacuum leak in the crankcase? When primed, the oil might seal the leak enough so that the engine starts easier, or maybe it is sealed because of the heat expansion of the parts. With an electric starter the engine turns so fast that it generates enough vacuum into the crankcase to pull the fuel mixture through the reed.

Just a thought, but this has happened to me with bigger 2-stroke engines (mopeds etc). Crankcase leaks also sometimes cause inconsistent running due to varying mixture.
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Post  rsv1cox on Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:03 pm

Air/vacuum leak? Possibly. The engine was an ebay buy in good condition. I took it apart, cleaned it and replaced all the gaskets. It didn't run right so I replaced the copper "star" gasket with mylar and that's when the flipping began.

And roddie, sometime between January and April I would think. House to sell etc. etc. Yes, I like that Tower power panel, no guessing if the glow plug is lit and the adjustment allows just the right "glow" on the plug as they tend to glow differently at various settings.

I toyed with the idea of making my own starter too, but lazyness won out.
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