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Two Gilberts with mufflers

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Mad Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  rsv1cox Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:54 am

My apologies to all that may have bid on these ebay offered engines.  Sad Goodbye  Ever since I saw Kim’s examples I had to have one or two.  As these came with mufflers and looked in great shape I could not resist.  

Two Gilberts with mufflers TwoGilberts_zps9871ea70

Now I have to find a suitable plane to put them on both in scale and design.  Any suggestions?

They won't work on a P-38, but some other twin? Or two singles?
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  Cribbs74 Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:00 am

Bob,

We used to post engines we were bidding on so we didn't compete against one another. Not sure where that practice went, but it ensured the prices stayed low and allowed folks to get what they want.

Hope you enjoy the Gilberts.

Ron
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  rsv1cox Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:07 am

@Cribbs74 wrote:Bob,

We used to post engines we were bidding on so we didn't compete against one another. Not sure where that practice went, but it ensured the prices stayed low and allowed folks to get what they want.

Hope you enjoy the Gilberts.

Ron

That's a good practice Ron and one I have alluded to before.  I really don't need any more engines and would willingly fail to bid or back off any auction if I knew another member was interested and/or bidding.  

I did buy one of the Gilberts that was put together from parts, reasonably priced at $25.00.  But I mainly just wanted the wrench that comes with it.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321577935993?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


These both are .074's  I understand that these are not the best running engines, but they are distinctive and have a history.

Two Gilberts with mufflers TwoGilberts2_zpsc251f8ba
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  pkrankow Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:22 am

http://brodak.com/control-line-kits/brodak/1-2-a-series/f82-twin-mustang-kit.html

This or something with a similar size, maybe slightly larger, wing.

Phil
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  Cribbs74 Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:23 am

What's the wrench looks like? I have a lot of wrenches that don't have a purpose. If I have a Gilbert one you can have it.
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  rsv1cox Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:37 am

@Cribbs74 wrote:What's the wrench looks like? I have a lot of wrenches that don't have a purpose. If I have a Gilbert one you can have it.

Kind of weird, looks like one end fits the 7 the other the 11.

Two Gilberts with mufflers Gilbertwrench_zps5de96f97
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  rsv1cox Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:43 am

@pkrankow wrote:http://brodak.com/control-line-kits/brodak/1-2-a-series/f82-twin-mustang-kit.html

This or something with a similar size, maybe slightly larger, wing.

Phil

Yes, that profile twin Mustang would be a good fit. Maybe a B-25 or as I have a third one coming, a Ford tri motor. Now I'm just dreaming.
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  rsv1cox Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:55 am

Maybe this?

Two Gilberts with mufflers Mosquito_zpsb9664acd

.074 To much engine?  Maybe not.

Or, this would be great. Built up wing and mufflers coming out of the cowlings.

Two Gilberts with mufflers ELECTRA4_zps8c152068
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  Kim Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:49 am

@rsv1cox wrote:My apologies to all that may have bid on these ebay offered engines.  Sad Goodbye  Ever since I saw Kim’s examples I had to have one or two

Always a pleasure to assist/inspire my fellow forum buds to spend their hard-earned cash !!!
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  Oldenginerod Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:11 pm

The wrench is indeed designed for both engines- .074 head one end and .11 head the other, plus both prop nut sizes. I have numerous Gilbert wrenches and could have spared one.

It's worth noting that both engines you bought have both left side mufflers fitted. The pipes should be parallel to each other but angled to the engine so that they stay parallel to the fuselage when mounted with offset.

Just to note, I did bid on these also, but already have a half dozen Gilberts so losing doesn't worry me. The seller wanted a fortune for International postage, but agreed to "reduce" the cost if I won, without giving me a solid figure. I hate that!! Mad

Rod.
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  GallopingGhostler Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:36 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:Maybe this?

Two Gilberts with mufflers Mosquito_zpsb9664acd

.074 To much engine?  Maybe not.

Gilbert .074 seems to put out about the same amount of power as a Cox .049 Babe Bee. Practical RPM's versus prop size may be found in the thread:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/glow-engines-114/11586651-club-c-gilbert.html

EarlWB on his Gilbert .074 using 1/2-A Glowboy Fuel and what looks like a Masters 6x3 prop turned 11.7k RPM. Controlliner stated he was getting around 16k RPM with his well broken in one. That Blackhawk kit looks like someone is using Gilberts for power, judging by the large spring starter front prop washer casting. I am told that they start and run best upright. If we had calmer skies here in New Mexico, I would have substituted the Gilbert just to see how well it performs on a 20" CL profile job I already have built.
Basically this is (flying small reedie CL in NM) wishful thinking. Tired w/ Coffee Read
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  rsv1cox Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:20 pm

Thanks GG, I did link to that thread and found Earl's and your inputs. Reading that thread was like asking for a drink of water and someone hosing you down with a fire hose, but I read it all and loved every minute of it. Booked it too.

and Rod, buzz me when your into something ebayish and I will hesitate..... Hand Shake . But I have spent my lunch money there for awhile so I'm on an extended ebay pause.

Interesting about the left hand mufflers, I did not know they were different. Learned a lot from GG's link. Somewhere someone has too many right handers. What problems will that cause me?
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  Oldenginerod Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:14 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:Thanks GG, I did link to that thread and found Earl's and your inputs.  Reading that thread was like asking for a drink of water and someone hosing you down with a fire hose, but I read it all and loved every minute of it.  Booked it too.

and Rod, buzz me when your into something ebayish and I will hesitate..... Hand Shake . But I have spent my lunch money there for awhile so I'm on an extended ebay pause.  

Interesting about the left hand mufflers, I did not know they were different.  Learned a lot from GG's link.  Somewhere someone has too many right handers.  What problems will that cause me?

No problems with the ebay thing. All's fair..... I shouldn't be buying anything from over there anyway due to the current exchange rate of $1 AUD = $0.85 USD. Last year we were getting more for our dollar in the exchange so I bought quite a few when I had the chance of saving a few $$.

I did get a Gilbert 11 a while ago with 2 RH mufflers, (Sorry, they don't interchange with the 7), which is a common practice for R/C or free flight without engine offset. It also directs castor away from the plane, wheras yours will concentrate it back towards the plane, making a mess.

Rod.
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  GallopingGhostler Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:34 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:Interesting about the left hand mufflers, I did not know they were different.  Learned a lot from GG's link.  Somewhere someone has too many right handers.  What problems will that cause me?

As oldenginerod shared, it shouldn't cause you problems, except perhaps the exhaust spray may be directed more inward toward the fuselage if you have side thrust; both sides if no side thrust. You may be able to link up with someone who has two right hand exhausts and do an exchange. With the proper right hand and left hand exhausts, the exhaust gases will be directed straight behind and evenly on both sides with the appropriate side thrust.

One thing Steve has been offering lately for a reasonable price is Gilbert .074 glow heads, which are a hard find. Cool
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  gcb Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:58 am

What you got as a muffler depends on when & where you got it, apparently. I got my .07's from Polk's when Gilbert went out of business. A couple were kits in a bag, others were literally broken off RTF's and bagged. One even had a screw and a piece of plastic still on the mounting lug.

My Gilbert .11 is from a yard sale and is missing the drive washer, prop washer and nut. I used these items from a steel fin Fox .15 when I ran it.

Back to the muffler, these appear to be Gilbert's equivalent to a "Tongue" muffler. Smile

George

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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  roddie Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:33 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:My apologies to all that may have bid on these ebay offered engines.  Sad Goodbye  Ever since I saw Kim’s examples I had to have one or two.  As these came with mufflers and looked in great shape I could not resist.  

Two Gilberts with mufflers TwoGilberts_zps9871ea70

Now I have to find a suitable plane to put them on both in scale and design.  Any suggestions?

They won't work on a P-38, but some other twin?  Or two singles?

Hi Bob, I was thinking about twins for your Gilberts. If you like to scatch-build.. and I'm assuming a control line model. May I suggest something obscure..? Shocked Edit: sorry..  Embarassed   I forgot to tell you what it is.. It's a British "Westland Whirlwind" heavy fighter.. and was one of the fastest aircraft in British service in the late 1930's. Power was Rolls Royce Peregrine's.

Two Gilberts with mufflers Weston11
Two Gilberts with mufflers Whirlw10
Two Gilberts with mufflers Whirlw11

I see the engine nacelles being built for those nice twin Gilbert pipes to exit. Cool
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  rsv1cox Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:38 pm

That is an amazing looking airplane.  !930's, looks like they hung a couple of turbo props on a ME 262 Swallow but it predates that.  Predates turbo's too unless the one pictured is quite updated.  

Kit bashing a C/L 262 kit to fit would be fun.....if you could find one that wasn't profile.  

Gotta google that.

Bob

And gcb, thanks for that picture.  Tongue muffler, neat.

Hijacked one of EWB's pictures.  Are the R/L mufflers really that different?

Two Gilberts with mufflers Gilbertmuffler_zps70247a4d

Edit add:  Googled Westland Whirlwind.  Good old wikipedia, I should support them I check them about every day.  I was interested in the engines...liquid cooled V12's the reason for the large narcilles.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westland_Whirlwind_(fighter)
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  GallopingGhostler Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:06 pm

Yes, left and right mufflers for the .11 are that much different. If you were to give right side thrust enough, both mufflers then will be level and evenly spaced on each side of the fuselage for an upright engine.

Engine you got is similar to the one I got from Steve earlier this year, except yours has additional items that since he ran out of (dacron thread, fuel tank, etc.). Those mufflers look functionally similar to the Tatone in-cowl muffler header. I received the same short prop thust plate hub, that leaves a gap between the plate and crankcase.

George (gcb)'s .074's has an interesting tongue like muffler, just two holes on each side of the muffler blank. If one had a milling machine, it would be easy to duplicate these mufflers. I'm almost thinking that if one had some K&S C channel aluminum or brass whose inside width was about the same outer width of the exhaust muffler flange area could fabricate a muffler that might work, although it wouldn't be as much of a chamber though.

Haven't checked to see how much the .11 muffler removes the bark, bench ran them without mufflers.


Last edited by GallopingGhostler on Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  Oldenginerod Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:07 pm

@rsv1cox wrote:I was interested in the engines...liquid cooled V12's the reason for the large narcilles.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westland_Whirlwind_(fighter)

Actually, not all that different to the P-51 which used a Rolls Royce Merlin- still a supercharged liquid cooled V12.  Peregrine was 21 Litres and the Merlin was 27 Litres.
(I started writing this before your edit  Very Happy )

Rod.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:19 pm

I read that the Westland Whirlwind fighter had teething problems with suitable engines, although otherwise it was a fine fighter. It remains a neat looking twin that would surely garner looks when brought out to the flying field. Powerwise, I find it interesting that the Gilbert .11 turns a 7x3, OS Max .10R/C and Fuji .099S-II turn a 7x5, and Enya .09-III turn a 7x6, relatively speaking. That helps me to better place the Gilbert .11's with the appropriate airframe. Smile
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  rsv1cox Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:41 pm

@Oldenginerod wrote:
@rsv1cox wrote:I was interested in the engines...liquid cooled V12's the reason for the large narcilles.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westland_Whirlwind_(fighter)

Actually, not all that different to the P-51 which used a Rolls Royce Merlin- still a supercharged liquid cooled V12.  Peregrine was 21 Litres and the Merlin was 27 Litres.
(I started writing this before your edit  Very Happy )

Rod.

Yes, I had second thoughts regarding the P-51 engine and deleted that referance. Embarassed

Happy that I did. The P-51 was such a narrow and sleek airframe I thought the Whirlwinds engine must have had a lot more stuff hung on it. Senior moment..... Wink
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  getback Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:51 am

Well here is my Gilbert 11 In ah action ! like to have gave up before it started as it was my last engine of the day to run had been all afternoon working on a couple others giving problems Huh...      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFBLNnYFpbU  Its no power house as ya 'll have said . You thing the 7x3 airscrew was too much for it ?? Eric Surprised
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:49 am

Yes, sounds tempermental. Up, down all around. Perhaps a 6/3 or 4? Fuel type? I do like the remote positioned needle valve, but it could interfer with installation. Are you going to mount it on a plane?
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  rsv1cox Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:03 am

I wound up buying one of Blackhawk's L-10's. I really like that wing, but seems like a spar is in order. Twins and Biplanes appeal to me.

Two Gilberts with mufflers BlackhawkL-10_zpsf0b7595b

Don't know if I will use the Gilberts on it though, seems like a couple of Golden Bees or Black Widows might work better?
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Mad Re: Two Gilberts with mufflers

Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:12 am

@getback wrote:Well here is my Gilbert 11 In ah action ! like to have gave up before it started as it was my last engine of the day to run had been all afternoon working on a couple others giving problems Huh...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFBLNnYFpbU

Its no power house as ya 'll have said . You thing the 7x3 airscrew was too much for it ?? Eric Surprised

A 7x3 is the correct prop. 7,000 RPM is kind of low. My guess is that yours may be a little tight, require further run in for break in. I'd give it a chance. Once it loosens up, you should get better runs on it. I ran mine on 15%, they seem to love nitro.
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