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Cox Engine of The Month
October-2019
colibriguitars's

Dieselized .049 with no Teflon disk or o-rings.

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Post  dankar04 on Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:56 pm

I found my last Cox mag speed pan. I have plans for speed ship. I made a wing for it but not happy with it. Next one will have carbon veil in between wood. I'll try it first with a Medallion .049. Then either a Space hopper or TD .049. Even found some old Veco wheels for take off dolly. Two line as don't want to mess with monoline. lol! Anyway nice easy project. I also have some kits of Dale Kirns 290 speed trainer. Pre fab kit with everything included. Use 290 engines. Looks alot like a Mouse racer. Friends/Meeting
Cheers,Dan Airplane cheers Flying
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Post  andrew on Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:30 pm

dankar04 wrote:I found my last Cox mag speed pan.

Dan --
I'll bet a lot of these youngsters don't know what a mag speed pan is. Or a monoline, for that matter.
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Post  Kim on Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:59 pm

andrew wrote:
dankar04 wrote:I found my last Cox mag speed pan.

Dan --
I'll bet a lot of these youngsters don't know what a mag speed pan is. Or a monoline, for that matter.
andrew

Tell you what...I think it'd be great if one or more of you with experience in this stuff could post some drawings or photos...especially (for me) the set-up and function of monoline and speed competition in general. I was never able to truly understand the monoline's workings, and it's remained a void for me to this day.
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Post  nitroairplane on Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:02 pm

I was never into speed anything apart from the odd modded rc car.
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Post  andrew on Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:32 pm

Kim --

I'll see if I can get some drawings together tonight on a basic monoline setup.

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Post  Kim on Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:39 pm

nitroairplane wrote:I was never into speed anything apart from the odd modded rc car.
Indra

In 1968 or so there, was a cool design in Flying Models or Model Airplane News that featured a single retractable main gear. Looking at the plans, I could never figure out how it worked...and with a single line for control also!

Got a copy somewhere...gonna try to find and scan it...
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Post  Kim on Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:41 pm

andrew wrote:Kim --

I'll see if I can get some drawings together tonight on a basic monoline setup.

andrew

Cool !!! Appreciate it !
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Post  Ivanhoe on Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:23 pm

Kim wrote:
andrew wrote:
dankar04 wrote:I found my last Cox mag speed pan.

Dan --
I'll bet a lot of these youngsters don't know what a mag speed pan is. Or a monoline, for that matter.
andrew

Tell you what...I think it'd be great if one or more of you with experience in this stuff could post some drawings or photos...especially (for me) the set-up and function of monoline and speed competition in general. I was never able to truly understand the monoline's workings, and it's remained a void for me to this day.

No, I admit I never really understood monoline either, but then I was never interested in speed, so I suppose I never tried very hard. Be interesting to have it explained though.

Wilf

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Post  PV Pilot on Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:52 pm

Kim wrote:
nitroairplane wrote:I was never into speed anything apart from the odd modded rc car.
Indra

In 1968 or so there, was a cool design in Flying Models or Model Airplane News that featured a single retractable main gear. Looking at the plans, I could never figure out how it worked...and with a single line for control also!

Got a copy somewhere...gonna try to find and scan it...

There was a speed racer at the delta park speed circle that had a setup like that. Single gear that was spring loaded, as soon as liftoff happend, the load was relieved and the gear retracted. Many,many moons ago.
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Post  Kim on Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:23 pm

PV Pilot wrote:
Kim wrote:
nitroairplane wrote:I was never into speed anything apart from the odd modded rc car.
Indra

In 1968 or so there, was a cool design in Flying Models or Model Airplane News that featured a single retractable main gear. Looking at the plans, I could never figure out how it worked...and with a single line for control also!

Got a copy somewhere...gonna try to find and scan it...

There was a speed racer at the delta park speed circle that had a setup like that. Single gear that was spring loaded, as soon as liftoff happend, the load was relieved and the gear retracted. Many,many moons ago.

Betting that's how this one worked. Some kind of craftsmanship/skill involved in that !
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Post  fit90 on Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:31 pm

Isn't that kinda like taking off in a real plane and beginning the take off roll out with the gear handle in the up position? Works every time in theory.

Bob
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Post  PV Pilot on Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:55 pm

Gotta keep HARD down elevator until you well exceed the take off speed,,,lol.
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Post  andrew on Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:31 pm

OK, here we go. I've never flown a monoline and not sure I could, but I have watched them in the contests.

I apologize in advance for my poor drawings, but maybe it will make some sense. Obviously, monoline was designed to reduce line drag in the speed events. All you really needed was enough control to keep the plane level for the timing laps. Monoline used a torque wire -- the wire was twisted clockwise and counter clockwise by the control handle and converted back to push/pull with a torque tube.

The handle contained a coursely threaded rod that was rotated with a sliding lever. The monoline was attached to the end of the threaded rod and transferred the rotation to the plane. 1/2Speed ship White Knight Monoli10

The torque tube was embedded in the wing with a thrust bearing to carry the load. This worked like a jackscrew. The inner rod was threaded much more finely than the rod in the control handle -- a greater movement in the control handle lever translated into a smaller in/out movement in the torque tube. Turning the wire in one direction extended the outer tube; turning in the other direction pulled the outer tube back. The end of the outer tube was connected to one side of the bellcrank (where one of the controllines would be attached). Extending the tube pushed the bellcrank in one direction controlling the elevator; retracting the outer tube pulled it back, reversing the elevator movement.
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There was another method used where the monoline rotated a more coursely threaded cylinder. This was mounted under one of the bellcrank arms -- the arm had a follower pin that engaged the threads. As the cylinder turned, the follower moved the bellcrank arm back and forth. This seemed to be the less preferred design.
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Post  PV Pilot on Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:08 pm

The setup i always seen was a rod cl handle using two wires, once up to speed, the handle was set into a V shaped block on a bearinged center post set in the asphalt, then the guy would duck down below the lines and wait for it to run out of fuel,,basically becoming a tethered racer, hands off.
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Post  jetpack on Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:45 pm

I too, have a Cox speed pan and always admired the tiny, streamlined banshees. I want to carve my own body and wings for it. I've searched ebay for close to ten years now hoping I would come across the Victor Stanzel 1/2A monoline setup and handle but the whole gig will set you back close to $150. Out of my price range for the project.

Actually, the speed pan came just recently. The Stanzel unit I dream of owning is for another pet project of mine of a Douglas Skyray ducted fan kit by Berkeley which utilized the "clock spring and follower" type. I have decided to make it simply a free flight model shelf queen with my Thermal Hopper, but I included pictures of the drawing details that show the monoline setup for the table.

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Post  andrew on Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:48 pm

jetpack wrote:........The Stanzel unit I dream of owning is for another pet project of mine of a Douglas Skyray ducted fan kit by Berkeley which utilized the "clock spring and follower" type. I have decided to make it simply a free flight model shelf queen with my Thermal Hopper, but I included pictures of the drawing details that show the monoline setup for the table.

jetpack --

Thanks for the posting. I had not seen the "clock spring" setup before.

The speed pans had several functions. Certainly in the larger classes, C and D, the engines were really wound out and needed a solid mount. The 1/2A speed engines turn more RPM, but don't produce the torque of the bigger guys. The pan makes up the lower half of the fuselage. The upper half was, as jetpack noted, usually carved to a streamline shape. Speed engines are beam mounted and need a hard, true base and the pan mounts could be milled perfectly flat. There is some argument that unless the beam mounts are true, when the engine is tightened down, it can cause some distortion in the case and consequent binding, resulting in loss of RPM. With speed planes, cooling is absolutely minimal. These engines run hot compared to our sport engines and the pan also serves as a heatsink to help pull heat out of the case so air inlets may be made smaller and reduce parasitic drag associated with cowled air.

Dan and jetpack may have more comments or corrections to post.

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Post  dankar04 on Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:36 pm

Thats the pan. Top looks good. Mine will be carved block. Wing will be lamiated bass/ply wood/carbon veil. I have speed botton bellcrank and use two lines, but may make another top section for monoline. the designer of this plane has speeds nearing 150mph with a CZ engine. Mucho modified and tuned. Thats insane speed for such small model. Mine may hit85=90 and thats fast enough. I may go for 100 mph. Flying Airplane cheers
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Post  nitroairplane on Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:37 pm

Andrew i know those but have never seen one with any wings on it.
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Post  jetpack on Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:29 pm

Here's one I saved for reference pictures. It was offered on eBay. Not many show up. They are hard to find pictures of so I am still researching for wing designs and profiles.

This one I think is more for show than anything. I couldn't call it a true speed ship becaues the wing looks way too thick and blunt but it gives you an idea of how one is made. The top fuselage is usually carved from basswood, possibly the wing also.

I cannot find plans to compliment the Cox pan at all as I think everyone involved in the sport kinda knew what was going on at the time and did their own ideas as to what produced the best speed for them. All are experimental and left up to the craftsman's vision, sort of like pinewood derby cars in cub scouts.

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Post  nitroairplane on Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:36 pm

That is a lovely looking plane!
But yes the wing looks a bit think to even fly at all.
Thanks for the picture.
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Post  dankar04 on Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:10 am

Plane shown in early HellRazor by deBotl. White knight is bigger with longer wing. That said model shown is well built.
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Post  nitroairplane on Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:12 am

Ah I am not yet experienced enough to tell the difference (when it comes to speed planes)
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