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Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2) Babe_b10
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Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2) Empty
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Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2)

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Which do you consider the ugly unloved engine?

Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2) Vote_lcap45%Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2) Vote_rcap 45% 
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Total Votes : 11

Thinking Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2)

Post  GallopingGhostler on Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:35 am

Speaking of Scorned by many, loved by few reminds me of a lot of failure engines that came to market upon the doom or spelling the doom of various companies.

I'm not sure what reasoning goes behind failure products being produced prior to demise.

Cox was on its way out when it came out with the monstrosity called the .074 Queen Bee. Although it has gathered a cult following and had no really nasty habits, it was heavy with only the power output of the .049 Tee Dee.

K&B was on its way out when it came out with the Sportster series of engines. Schneurle port, it had an odd chrome plated piston running in an aluminum block engine in an aluminum bore. It also was heavy. Cult followers like it because it is very 4 stroke like with its abilities to turn larger lower diameter props. It required higher oil content with significant Castor to protect the chrome plated piston. Many a modeler ruined them with a lean runs and underspec'd oil fuel.

A.C. Gilbert went with a low power technology called side port with their Gilbert planes, hoping to make Christmas with killer sales. Their airplanes were attractive, but the buying public thought otherwise. Side port where the piston skirt provides the valve action was not as powerful as reed valve or crankcase rotary valve technology. They wound up with scads of .074's putting out the power of a .049, .11's putting out the power of an .08. They are not bad engines, but heavy for their lesser power output. Only a few want them. AHC and Polks Hobbies couldn't give them away. Out of the thousands produced, only a small number remain.

Then take Testors, who came out with the cross scavenged Series 21, a really bad marketing decision when everyone else was going to Schneurle technology. Had they come out with a much better cross scavenged engine in terms of light weight and powerful, they might have had a better short lived chance. After that, the only engines that survived a number of years were their .049 products. Heavy and outdated, the Series 21 didn't have a chance and became low cost clearance items. I picked up 6 of them in various sizes for $5 apiece in the mid 1970's. Except for the .40 CL, gave them away when I moved.

Model aircraft fly best when weight is kept down. Overall, heavy engines fell by the wayside over time. When Leroy Cox came out with his engines, finally settling on the Tee Dee's, reed valves and Medallions, they were light weight, superior in fit and finish and could be had relatively cheap, underselling the competition. Nearly all competitors stopped manufacturing their .049 to .06 engines.

When Norvel came out with their superior light weight, powerful Schneurle ported .049 and .061 engines, this put the dent in Estes Industries' Cox purchase. Why would one want a reed valve engine when they could have and engine more powerful than the Tee Dee?

Overall we've seen that modelers prefer cost effective powerful and lightweight powerplants. Death of the heavy weight low power ignition engines of the '30's and '40's are a prime example. We only see them occasionally with a cult following. Modern close toleranced outrunner electric motors with newer high power lithium polymer batteries now outclass glow engines in terms of power with similar duration.

A marketing successful formula is being light weight and powerful with reasonable cost that attracts modelers to these type powerplants. Comments?
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Thinking Re: Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2)

Post  TDbandit on Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:26 am

I say the sportster series since I have had both the 20 and 65. The 20 which I still have "somewhere" however the 65 I don't "lost it in a hard crash" an interesting fact though is the 65 was used by the military on a foam target drone that was in the shape of a Mig fighter my 65 was off of one of those. Another feature of those engines that I though was odd was the use of a high temp rubber O-ring to seal the head. They also had a removable cylinder which allowed you to reposition the exhaust provided that the engine hadn't been run previously much like the later MVVS engines. (Bandit)
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Thinking Re: Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2)

Post  duke.johnson on Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:40 am

I can't remember the Testors McCoy .19 - .40 Series 21. Which one is it? You have a picture? I think I'm one of those who love the queen bee though. Yet I've never had mine in a plane. Someday.

Never mind, I just saw the other thread.
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Thinking Re: Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2)

Post  GallopingGhostler on Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:59 pm

TDbandit wrote:An interesting fact though is the 65 was used by the military on a foam target drone that was in the shape of a Mig fighter my 65 was off of one of those.
From what I gather through forums and my own personal eyes of them, they used a variety of engines, HB .61, K&B .60, and later the K&B .65 Sporsters. They were flown as 3 channels without landing gear (ailerons, elevator, engine speed). Those Mig 27 Flogger D foamies were large. The earlier ones molded in camoflage brown and grey green were better built, designed as close range heat seeker aiming trainers for small surface to air missle training systems. Last contractor I think was Carl Goldberg Industries. Later white ones used duct tape has hinges for the control surfaces. (They were considered disposable by the US military. Compared with the larger drones, they were considerably cheaper.)

duke.johnson wrote:I can't remember the Testors McCoy .19 - .40 Series 21. Which one is it? You have a picture? I think I'm one of those who love the queen bee though. Yet I've never had mine in a plane. Someday. Never mind, I just saw the other thread.

For the sake of all, here are photos as examples:

Testors McCoy .40 Series 21:

Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2) Mccoy_10

Cox .074 Queen Bee:

Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2) Cox_0710

A.C. Gilbert .11 Thunderhead:

Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2) Ac_gil10

A.C. Gilbert .074 Thunderhead:

Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2) Gilber11

Not mentioned previously, earlier Fox .09 Rocket side port, same technology as A.C. Gilbert (photo not mine):
Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2) Fox_0910

K&B Sportster .20:
Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2) Kb_20_10

Example of chrome plating eroded off aluminum from mis-use/abuse, notice the thick cylinder and crankcase:
Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2) Kb_20_11

K&B 20 Sportster compared to Enya 35-V TV:
Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2) Kb20_s10
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Thinking Re: Scorned by Many, Loved by Few (Part 2)

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