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Cox RR1 anybody.....

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Cox RR1 anybody.....

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:08 am

On ebay right now for $225 and growing.



I know nothing about these except it comes in the same packaging as my first Cox engine bought back in the fifties.

It looks like the same fuel tank as used on standard reed engines. Anyone have a breakdown of what the internals look like and/or personal comments regarding this engine?

I'm not in the bidding, it's a little to high for my investment temperture.

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Re: Cox RR1 anybody.....

Post  KariFS on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:16 am

There are a lot of unique things in the RR1. The fuel tank is "internally" different in the area where the reed assembly would be, to accommodate the rotary valve. The crank pin is longer than in reed engines as the pin rotates the valve. So the crank/rotary valve and fuel tank combination (including the backplate I think) are unique to this model. The cylinder and head are standard items and the crankcase could be replaced with a regular one.

I only had mine apart briefly, I just checked that there are no parts missing, I didn't take photos or compare the parts more thoroughly. I can disassemble it again and take some pics one of these days.

By the way, does the $510 one have a wrong spinner or did they ever come with that type? Mine came without any spinner, just the short prop screw.
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Re: Cox RR1 anybody.....

Post  getback on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:19 am

Bob I have one I got in a lot for 200$ so it could pay for it self , had mine apart thought I had it cleaned the reed configuration is capped and could be damaged if not careful . Test run wasn't successful was not getting the fuel so I need to ck. it closer , didn't seem to be that dirty inside so I looked over something . Rusty K has flown his and seems to think It done very well for him....   http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/cox_frameset.htm some INFO> Small Cox Logo
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Re: Cox RR1 anybody.....

Post  ian1954 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:11 am

They all came with spinners




However - BEWARE (A warning from a previous posting!)

The RR1 is certainly a popular engine but I wouldn't describe it as "rare".

They breed like rabbits and can be stressful to manage.

I use every room in the house and, as my previous posts indicated, have found a use for every room, surface and "nook and cranny" in pursuit of my hobbies.

One I have only briefly mentioned is the "airing/ dirty washing cupboard". A nice warm, often damp but dark place where I have known engines, placed to dry, mutate.

I have also found that it a veritable engine breeding parlour! Particularly for RR1s.

I think some of this is a matter of luck. I haven't a clue how you determine the sex of an RR1, they may even be hermaphrodites!

Put two of them in a box - NIB seems to be ideal - together with nice smelly socks waiting to be washed.



After a couple of days, take a peek ..........



However, remember to seperate them quickly before you are overrun.





Also be ruthless - some of them don't turn out quite right!

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Re: Cox RR1 anybody.....

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:16 am

Googled this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9lzUjfWIj8

Interesting with Rusty being a contributor.  The disassembled still picture pretty much shows me what I wanted to know.  Seems an extension on the connecting rod pin drives the rotary valve shown just to the left of the fuel tank.  Huh...

I wonder why these are considered rare, the production run wasn't exactly short on these unless the higher price reduced the number sold.  Worked for me, of the many hobby shops that I visited during that period I always oppted for the cheaper reed valves.  But I probably looked at and bypassed many a RR1.  Wishing now I had picked up several.  

What do they say about hind sight...... Sad

Edit add: Enjoyed the above ian. Perhaps those Teddy Bears are Rabbits in disguise. And - WOW, RR1 overload.
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Re: Cox RR1 anybody.....

Post  Mark Boesen on Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:21 am

Here's an older photo from G.Willie

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Re: Cox RR1 anybody.....

Post  getback on Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:28 am

Bob that site took me to Winging It with Travis and Jeremy , But that's ok I will have to ck. that when I get it apart again.
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Re: Cox RR1 anybody.....

Post  batjac on Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:18 pm

What was the functional advantage of doing a rear rotary drum?  I can see the advantage of a front rotary engine, but not for a rear.  It didn't constitute a parts saving.  Only 1 less part.  But replacing a reed and retaining clip with a large rotating valve would seem to be a negative to me.  More rotating mass.  Plus, more overall machining involved compared to a reedie. Plus, a small extension to the crank pin that could wear more and constitute an additional failure point.  Performance could be improved on a reedie by the mods made in the Killer Bees.  I just don't see the reason for the RR1's introduction.

Also, since these were the RR1, was a RR2 planned?

The Ignorant Mark
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Re: Cox RR1 anybody.....

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:49 pm

batjac wrote:What was the functional advantage of doing a rear rotary drum?  I can see the advantage of a front rotary engine, but not for a rear.  It didn't constitute a parts saving.  Only 1 less part.  But replacing a reed and retaining clip with a large rotating valve would seem to be a negative to me.  More rotating mass.  Plus, more overall machining involved compared to a reedie. Plus, a small extension to the crank pin that could wear more and constitute an additional failure point.  Performance could be improved on a reedie by the mods made in the Killer Bees.  I just don't see the reason for the RR1's introduction.

Also, since these were the RR1, was a RR2 planned?

The Ignorant Mark

Hey, It wouldn't run backwards.... Smile Smile Smile

Seems like a rather large price to pay for that feature doesn't it.

Well, the one I referanced sold for $342.69 to a person that submitted a single bid, probably much more than that.  A man after my own heart, I ususally just bid once, what the item is worth to me an that's it.  No "nibbling".

Thanks for that montage Mark, makes it's operation even clearer.
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Re: Cox RR1 anybody.....

Post  ian1954 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:13 pm

I believe it was developed to be the ultimate in the Bee series. It certainly came out as the most attractive (well in my opinion) of the Bee series. The idea was to produce a performance Bee that could simply be bolted on to replace a standard Bee.

As mentioned, the rotary valve also prevented the Bee being started in reverse but the valve could be replaced by one configured for reverse running.

The limited improvement in performance didn't justify the extra production costs. Cox was, after all, a high volume low cost manufacturer. However, it was in production for eight years (1957 - 1965) and predated the TDs which became the de facto performance 049 engine.

One of the reasons for their value is the looks - they stand out from other Bees. The other is that they would be quite difficult to clone.

Engines like the Killer Bees and the Venom were not produced until 30 years later and a few that are seen for sale are somewhat suspect. Huh...
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Re: Cox RR1 anybody.....

Post  KariFS on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:42 am

rsv1cox wrote: I wonder why these are considered rare, the production run wasn't exactly short on these unless the higher price reduced the number sold.  Worked for me, of the many hobby shops that I visited during that period I always oppted for the cheaper reed valves.  But I probably looked at and bypassed many a RR1.  Wishing now I had picked up several.  

Well, I guess labeling them "rare" is exaggeration, but after all, even the newest RR1's are now 50 years old. But they are "different" and certainly more rare than other integral tank Cox engines. Prices are affected by rarity and "collectibility" (not sure if that is a porper word Smile ).

For comparison, take a look at early Ford Mustangs. A compact family car with simplest mechanical systems wrapped in fancy sheetmetal, hundreds of thousands built and sold, not exactly the best quality, safety, ride or cornering, yet almost everyone wants to have one. For the fraction of the price you could have a Falcon with about the same technology but with plain family car looks and a convenient body style with four doors. Actually Falcons are more "rare" nowadays than Mustangs but the price doesn't reflect that.

I think RR1's are cool little engines (just like Mustangs are cool cars), it doesn't matter if the performance is nothing special, it just looks so nice in a display box Smile For flying, I still choose a reed engine, standard or hopped up.
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Re: Cox RR1 anybody.....

Post  Cox International on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:41 pm

Yeah, they are expensive alright lol.

We bid $500 on one the other day and got outbid. Just sold a used one for $295 http://coxengines.ca/cox-.049-rr1-engine-used.html

I remember the days when they even went for $800.

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Re: Cox RR1 anybody.....

Post  Marleysky on Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:50 pm

One I have only briefly mentioned is the "airing/ dirty washing cupboard". A nice warm, often damp but dark place where I have known engines, placed to dry, mutate.

I have also found that it a veritable engine breeding parlour! Particularly for RR1s.

I think some of this is a matter of luck. I haven't a clue how you determine the sex of an RR1, they may even be hermaphrodites!

Put two of them in a box - NIB seems to be ideal - together with nice smelly socks waiting to be washed.

Ian - what'd you charge for a breeder fee?  I'll provide the dirty sox and cardboard box. You provide the RR-1's and we could split the litter. I won't require any pedigree papers, just the little blue and gold puppies!! lol!
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