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Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

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LOW RPM WITHOUT A FLYWHEEL OR A FLYWHEEL EFFECT

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:01 pm

For obvious reasons, this reply does not apply to the people who replied with an interesting topic of flywheels but to all other who have expressed response on low RPM. I had written this reply on Word for Windows before I received the flywheel replies.

Here is the post :

A lot of people have concentrated their energy on replying on the power of the engine at low RPM. I have received opposite responses. Some say this engine is powerful at low RPM. Others say not.

I thank all for these responses, although, as I have requested in the reply with subject “ THE HELP I NEED “, this is not the main topic I need help with. I mainly need help with the SETTINGS AND FUEL for a better performance at low RPM. Settings are the positions of the main three controls : air valve ( throttle ), fuel needle valve and compression. Settings are not tunings. One can mistake tunings with changes to the engine to better perform at this condition which is not what I ask for because, for now, I use only Cox original parts and nothing else.

I have not had A LOT OF experience with this engine, yet, I have had experiences with many general purpose engines with internal combustion.

I am sure I will not achieve the maximal power output at low RPM which is not the goal.

I will be able to find more when I assemble and run the generator although the findings will not be very accurate because I will rely on the unknown power / RPM function of the dynamo to measure the electrical power output of the hole system ( to multiply DC current by DC voltage by reading the ampermeter and the voltmeter ).

However :

I have visually examined the output of the engine at low RPM and, from what I can see, this looks high.

I have also done a simple “ test “ by mistake : I put a hand on the TOP of the propeller path while the engine was working at low RPM. The hand got cut by the TOP of the propeller blades and blood flew all over. The engine did not blink. Decreased the RPM slightly and then increased again for less than a second.

Thus, based on the visual examination with a heavy 8 inch dual blade propeller as well as on the mentioned “ test “, I agree with whoever said “ These engines pack a punch at low RPM “.

I do not need much more help on this issue and prefer you all to concentrate on the main issues listed in the reply with a subject “ The Help I Need “.

Please, do concentrate on the main topics I need help with : SETTINGS AND FUEL. I have read what the documentations on this subject say BUT I want to read from you all.

I will again post a copy of the post with a subject : “ The Help I Need “ for clarification.

I have not been teaching anyone anything as I am not the one to teach. I have been simply replaying to all post because I think not to reply is offensive or impolite. In case this is the other way around, just say so and I will stop answering to every post.

I DO NEED HELP WITH THE ENGINE. I have clearly been saying what help.

1. HELP WITH THIS ENGINE AND ALTERNATIVE FUELS SUCH AS BIODIESEL. Any information for fuel with standard products and without Ether is welcome ( IN CASE THIS IS POSSIBLE, because, as some say, this may not be possible with this engine ). I thanked the post from the UK which showed an engine running on such a fuel. I may try after the project is assembled and run on standard fuel.
2. HELP WITH THIS ENGINE AND STANDARD FUEL :
2.1 WHAT KIND OF STANDARD FUEL CAN I USE. WHAT ARE THE COMPONENTS? WHAT ARE THE PERCENTAGES OF THE COMPONENTS. I have thanked Ken for the information of medicinal Kerosene as well as First Pressed Castor Oil. Also for Cetane Booster : Amil or Isopropyl Nitrate and not EthylExyl Nitrate. I cannot find these but I am thankful I will know what to look for and get should these become available here.
2.2 WHAT ARE THE START UP SETTINGS FOR A GIVEN FUEL : How much is the air valve ( throttle open )? How much is the fuel needle valve ( throttle ) open. How much is the compression screw open. How many ( very approximately ) spring starts would I need to do before the engine starts.
2.3 WHAT ARE THE SETTINGS AFTER START UP? To what extend do I have to tighten up the compression screw after start as well as the air valve ( throttle ) and the needle valve? How many seconds or minutes do I have to react and readjust these?
2.4 WHAT ARE THE SETTINGS FOR A NORMAL RUN? What is the fuel needle valve setting? What is the compression screw setting? Obviously, the air valve ( throttle ) is used from almost fully closed or fully closed to fully open.
2.5 WHAT PERCENTAGES OF THE STANDARD FUEL OR WHAT FUEL DO YOU THINK IS THE BEST FOR GETTING MORE POWER AT LOW RPM?
2.6 WHAT DO YOU THINK OF METHANOL BASED FUEL AS OPPOSED TO KEROSENE BASED FUEL?
2.7 I do not expect an answer to this question but this is the most important question : Where can I get these and other fuel components or fuels in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada? Again : I DO NOT EXPECT AN ANSWER.
3. Does anyone know of a clever way to get inexpensive Ether and or Methanol? University Supply Places, Medical Supply, Hobby Supply, Model Airplane Clubs, Racing, Truck Stops, Truckers Helping Truckers, Diesel Car Enthusiast Groups, Paint Shops, Private Airfields?
4. ENGINE RELIABILITY AND LONGEVITY AFTER A LONG CONTINUOUS ( OR APPROXIMATELY CONTINUOUS ) WORK AT ANY RPM, EVEN HIGHEST. How much do you run your engines. When you go out to fly, do you run your engines for 6 or 8 hours, tank load after tank load. How often do you go for a fly session? Do you go almost every Saturday and Sunday? Do you do competition where you have to train almost the whole week and or month? Do you abuse your engines a lot in order to perform stunts. Without keeping a log book : approximately : how long? Have your engines ever broken? What? How long after new?
5. PISTON RESETTING : How often do you do piston resetting when engine new and how often when run. I thank this responder who said the piston was only reset once when the engine was acquired ( second hand ) and than run for years under heavy abuse ( purchased for $3 ) without a problem. What are your experiences?
6. Do you know other tricks for a better start up, other than priming. What is your input on priming? Do you warm your cylinders with a blow torch? Do you keep your engines in your cars just before start up in the freeze? What is the most freezing weather you have started a diesel in? What will happen in case the engine is kept at minus 10ºC for a long while? Will the engine start? What other temperatures have you started your engines in?
7. HOW DO YOU ADJUST THE SETTINGS AS WELL AS THE FUEL PERCENTAGES IN FREEZING WEATHER AS WELL AS IN HOT?
8. WHAT IS THE TINIEST PROPELLER TO USE FOR LOW RPM? CAN I USE, SAY, A 3.5 INCH PROPELLER? HOW MANY BLADES? Remember, I do not use the propeller for flying but as a fan.

To summarise : THE HELP I NEED THE MOST HAS BEEN LISTED HERE AND BEFORE. Any help with the engine is welcome even this which says of alternative cranks. Third party carburetor prices and availability welcome for future. Taking care of the engine is also welcome.

Special thanks to :

The poster of the post on reliability of the engine and longevity.

The poster from the UK of the alternative diesel fuel with percentages and components.

The posters who have commented on low RPM : positive and negative, all.

Ken from the UK who clarified the best products to make the best Kerosene based fuel and displayed the bottles with labels to do so.

The poster who commented on the bidirectionality of the engine which was corrected in the thesis.

The posters who have posted other micro generators for a good reference.

Please, be kind posters. REFLECT ON THE ENGINE AND FUEL. Try to refrain from commercial viability or any business advices as well as electrical and electronics or, in case you must, try to be as quick on these as possible and as long as possible on the engine and fuel and other listed questions. Also, please, try to skip long comments on things which I will easily be able to find out and there is no much room for a mistake, for example : I will soon hear how loud the engine with a muffler is and will post a video. No need to post long comments on what I can hear. However, in case you would like to comment on how to improve these, you are more than welcome. In this example, in case you say how to reduce the noise ( with fuel or more muffler or the two thereof ) you are welcome.
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Status Report

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:06 pm

Many have been interested in why I am not building the project now.

I am currently waiting to receive mail from Cox with some parts.

The mail takes 1 week. I have been waiting for more than a week and a half. Nothing.

I will reassemble the engine after I receive the parts and improve the stand.

Then, I will be able to make a video and pictures. I hope the video provides some basic visual information and a possibility for a very basic, non scientific, evaluation.

Until then, I will attempt to respond to all replies. I will try to do so thereafter too.
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LOW RPM POWER WITHOUT ANY FLYWHEEL AND FLYWHEEL EFFECT

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:14 pm

StevenStanleyBayes wrote:For obvious reasons, this reply does not apply to the people who replied with an interesting topic of flywheels but to all other who have expressed response on low RPM. I had written this reply on Word for Windows before I received the flywheel replies.

Here is the post :

A lot of people have concentrated their energy on replying on the power of the engine at low RPM. I have received opposite responses. Some say this engine is powerful at low RPM. Others say not.

I thank all for these responses, although, as I have requested in the reply with subject “ THE HELP I NEED “, this is not the main topic I need help with. I mainly need help with the SETTINGS AND FUEL for a better performance at low RPM. Settings are the positions of the main three controls : air valve ( throttle ), fuel needle valve and compression. Settings are not tunings. One can mistake tunings with changes to the engine to better perform at this condition which is not what I ask for because, for now, I use only Cox original parts and nothing else.

I have not had A LOT OF experience with this engine, yet, I have had experiences with many general purpose engines with internal combustion.

I am sure I will not achieve the maximal power output at low RPM which is not the goal.

I will be able to find more when I assemble and run the generator although the findings will not be very accurate because I will rely on the unknown power / RPM function of the dynamo to measure the electrical power output of the hole system ( to multiply DC current by DC voltage by reading the ampermeter and the voltmeter ).

However :

I have visually examined the output of the engine at low RPM and, from what I can see, this looks high.

I have also done a simple “ test “ by mistake : I put a hand on the TOP of the propeller path while the engine was working at low RPM. The hand got cut by the TOP of the propeller blades and blood flew all over. The engine did not blink. Decreased the RPM slightly and then increased again for less than a second.

Thus, based on the visual examination with a heavy 8 inch dual blade propeller as well as on the mentioned “ test “, I agree with whoever said “ These engines pack a punch at low RPM “.

I do not need much more help on this issue and prefer you all to concentrate on the main issues listed in the reply with a subject “ The Help I Need “.

Please, do concentrate on the main topics I need help with : SETTINGS AND FUEL. I have read what the documentations on this subject say BUT I want to read from you all.

I will again post a copy of the post with a subject : “ The Help I Need “ for clarification.

I have not been teaching anyone anything as I am not the one to teach. I have been simply replaying to all post because I think not to reply is offensive or impolite. In case this is the other way around, just say so and I will stop answering to every post.

I DO NEED HELP WITH THE ENGINE. I have clearly been saying what help.

1. HELP WITH THIS ENGINE AND ALTERNATIVE FUELS SUCH AS BIODIESEL. Any information for fuel with standard products and without Ether is welcome ( IN CASE THIS IS POSSIBLE, because, as some say, this may not be possible with this engine ). I thanked the post from the UK which showed an engine running on such a fuel. I may try after the project is assembled and run on standard fuel.
2. HELP WITH THIS ENGINE AND STANDARD FUEL :
2.1 WHAT KIND OF STANDARD FUEL CAN I USE. WHAT ARE THE COMPONENTS? WHAT ARE THE PERCENTAGES OF THE COMPONENTS. I have thanked Ken for the information of medicinal Kerosene as well as First Pressed Castor Oil. Also for Cetane Booster : Amil or Isopropyl Nitrate and not EthylExyl Nitrate. I cannot find these but I am thankful I will know what to look for and get should these become available here.
2.2 WHAT ARE THE START UP SETTINGS FOR A GIVEN FUEL : How much is the air valve ( throttle open )? How much is the fuel needle valve ( throttle ) open. How much is the compression screw open. How many ( very approximately ) spring starts would I need to do before the engine starts.
2.3 WHAT ARE THE SETTINGS AFTER START UP? To what extend do I have to tighten up the compression screw after start as well as the air valve ( throttle ) and the needle valve? How many seconds or minutes do I have to react and readjust these?
2.4 WHAT ARE THE SETTINGS FOR A NORMAL RUN? What is the fuel needle valve setting? What is the compression screw setting? Obviously, the air valve ( throttle ) is used from almost fully closed or fully closed to fully open.
2.5 WHAT PERCENTAGES OF THE STANDARD FUEL OR WHAT FUEL DO YOU THINK IS THE BEST FOR GETTING MORE POWER AT LOW RPM?
2.6 WHAT DO YOU THINK OF METHANOL BASED FUEL AS OPPOSED TO KEROSENE BASED FUEL?
2.7 I do not expect an answer to this question but this is the most important question : Where can I get these and other fuel components or fuels in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada? Again : I DO NOT EXPECT AN ANSWER.
3. Does anyone know of a clever way to get inexpensive Ether and or Methanol? University Supply Places, Medical Supply, Hobby Supply, Model Airplane Clubs, Racing, Truck Stops, Truckers Helping Truckers, Diesel Car Enthusiast Groups, Paint Shops, Private Airfields?
4. ENGINE RELIABILITY AND LONGEVITY AFTER A LONG CONTINUOUS ( OR APPROXIMATELY CONTINUOUS ) WORK AT ANY RPM, EVEN HIGHEST. How much do you run your engines. When you go out to fly, do you run your engines for 6 or 8 hours, tank load after tank load. How often do you go for a fly session? Do you go almost every Saturday and Sunday? Do you do competition where you have to train almost the whole week and or month? Do you abuse your engines a lot in order to perform stunts. Without keeping a log book : approximately : how long? Have your engines ever broken? What? How long after new?
5. PISTON RESETTING : How often do you do piston resetting when engine new and how often when run. I thank this responder who said the piston was only reset once when the engine was acquired ( second hand ) and than run for years under heavy abuse ( purchased for $3 ) without a problem. What are your experiences?
6. Do you know other tricks for a better start up, other than priming. What is your input on priming? Do you warm your cylinders with a blow torch? Do you keep your engines in your cars just before start up in the freeze? What is the most freezing weather you have started a diesel in? What will happen in case the engine is kept at minus 10ºC for a long while? Will the engine start? What other temperatures have you started your engines in?
7. HOW DO YOU ADJUST THE SETTINGS AS WELL AS THE FUEL PERCENTAGES IN FREEZING WEATHER AS WELL AS IN HOT?
8. WHAT IS THE TINIEST PROPELLER TO USE FOR LOW RPM? CAN I USE, SAY, A 3.5 INCH PROPELLER? HOW MANY BLADES? Remember, I do not use the propeller for flying but as a fan.

To summarise : THE HELP I NEED THE MOST HAS BEEN LISTED HERE AND BEFORE. Any help with the engine is welcome even this which says of alternative cranks. Third party carburetor prices and availability welcome for future. Taking care of the engine is also welcome.

Special thanks to :

The poster of the post on reliability of the engine and longevity.

The poster from the UK of the alternative diesel fuel with percentages and components.

The posters who have commented on low RPM : positive and negative, all.

Ken from the UK who clarified the best products to make the best Kerosene based fuel and displayed the bottles with labels to do so.

The poster who commented on the bidirectionality of the engine which was corrected in the thesis.

The posters who have posted other micro generators for a good reference.

Please, be kind posters. REFLECT ON THE ENGINE AND FUEL. Try to refrain from commercial viability or any business advices as well as electrical and electronics or, in case you must, try to be as quick on these as possible and as long as possible on the engine and fuel and other listed questions. Also, please, try to skip long comments on things which I will easily be able to find out and there is no much room for a mistake, for example : I will soon hear how loud the engine with a muffler is and will post a video. No need to post long comments on what I can hear. However, in case you would like to comment on how to improve these, you are more than welcome. In this example, in case you say how to reduce the noise ( with fuel or more muffler or the two thereof ) you are welcome.


The same good low RPM power performance applies for a 3.5 inch triple blade propeller without weights.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  P-40 Warhawk on Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:22 pm

I don't know if you're aware of this but they do make a device called a tachometer which can be used to measure the RPM of a engine, without you having to mistakenly test it by sticking your hand into the arch of a moving propeller?It will work on a two or three bladed prop.There is also a company called Davis Diesel that makes products you could use to run and maintain your .049 surestart.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  JPvelo on Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:27 pm

P-40 Warhawk wrote:I don't  know if you're aware of this but they do make a device called a tachometer  which can be used to measure the RPM of a engine, without you having to mistakenly test it by sticking your hand into the arch of a moving propeller?It will work on a two or three bladed prop.There is also a company called Davis Diesel that makes products you could use to run and maintain your .049 surestart.

And you can order fuel from Ed Carlson.

http://carlsonengineimports.net

Good luck.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:01 pm

P-40 Warhawk wrote:I don't  know if you're aware of this but they do make a device called a tachometer  which can be used to measure the RPM of a engine, without you having to mistakenly test it by sticking your hand into the arch of a moving propeller?It will work on a two or three bladed prop.There is also a company called Davis Diesel that makes products you could use to run and maintain your .049 surestart.


Thank you for the information.

I have not stuck the hand to measure anything I DID THIS BY MISTAKE.

I am not happy to purchase a tachometer although I may do so from AliExpress : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-original-New-G-T-Power-Model-Profession-RC-Motor-Tachometer-free-shipping/1984747364.html for $15 to $16.

I would use a guitar tuner to measure the frequency of the sound the engine makes. Because the engine has one combustion per one full cycle, the frequency of the engine is equal to the measured frequency of the generated sound ( noise ). 1Hz is one cycle per second. Multiplied by 60 would give the RPM. The lowest audible sound is 20Hz which is 1200 RPM. The problem is I am not sure the guitar tuner, although fully chromatic ( can measure anything throughout the frequency range and not only what a guitar string is supposed to be ) would go this low because there are not very many instruments which would go down to 20Hz. However, measuring the whole audible range is easy, so, I would not be surprised in case the manufacturer of the guitar tuner did so. Corg C1 ( http://www.korg.com/us/products/tuners/ca_1/ ) goes to the note C1 which is 32.70Hz = 1962 RPM ~ 2000 RPM.

Your information in regards to Davies Diesel is very consistent with what others say. Everyone on the forum seems to be happy with this company. However, their prices are very high and so is their postage. Most importantly, Davis Diesel CANNOT ship to Canada because of the law which says no flammable materials are allowed to be shipped or received by mail regardless on how they are packed.

In case I ever hear of a shop which sells Davis Diesel in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, I will be one of the first to try. The hobby shop here does not sell any diesel product.

I AM VERY MUCH INTERESTED IN THE SETTINGS ( AIR VALVE ( THROTTLE ), FUEL NEEDLE VALVE, COMPRESSION ) OF THIS OR ANY OTHER ENGINE WITH ANY FUEL INCLUDING DAVIS DIESEL : START UP SETTINGS ( WHEN YOU START THE ENGINE ) AND RUNNING SETTINGS ( WHEN YOU RUN THE ENGINE NORMALLY ).

In case you would like to share this information, I will be happy.

Thanks again.


Last edited by StevenStanleyBayes on Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:03 pm

JPvelo wrote:
P-40 Warhawk wrote:I don't  know if you're aware of this but they do make a device called a tachometer  which can be used to measure the RPM of a engine, without you having to mistakenly test it by sticking your hand into the arch of a moving propeller?It will work on a two or three bladed prop.There is also a company called Davis Diesel that makes products you could use to run and maintain your .049 surestart.

And you can order fuel from Ed Carlson.

http://carlsonengineimports.net

Good luck.


Thanks again. This is the type of information which really helps and not the mumbo jumbo we have been doing here ( with some exceptions ).

Again, this company is in US. Does not work here. Cannot ship here. Even company in Canada cannot. The only way is to walk in the shop and get.
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Thesis Update

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:19 pm

http://www.steven-stanley-bayes.com/Cox%20.049%20SureStart%20Diesel.doc

The last chapter of the thesis has been updated at the sub chapter called " Fuel " with the information on the biodiesel from the UK and Davis Diesel for US readers.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  RknRusty on Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:48 pm


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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  dinsdale on Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:27 am

I must admit that "Steven Stanley Bayes" is entertaining, if not amusing, but don't you think it's time he gave his keyboard a rest? Same questions, same answers - over and over.

Steven Stanley Bayes, you've been told all the answers from the blokes who know. It's about time to move on to your next forum of choice and wear out their good will.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  RknRusty on Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:26 am

Maybe when his piston arrives he can move on from the theoretical to the applied part of this project.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  Surfer_kris on Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:52 pm

StevenStanleyBayes wrote:
I AM VERY MUCH INTERESTED IN THE SETTINGS ( AIR VALVE ( THROTTLE ), FUEL NEEDLE VALVE, COMPRESSION ) OF THIS OR ANY OTHER ENGINE WITH ANY FUEL INCLUDING DAVIS DIESEL : START UP SETTINGS ( WHEN YOU START THE ENGINE ) AND RUNNING SETTINGS ( WHEN YOU RUN THE ENGINE NORMALLY ).

The air valve can be in any position you like, it has the same function as could start choke on regular engines. So you could either use it as a cold start choke to enricher the fuel to air ratio, or you use the main needle to do it. No one can tell you what these values should be as it is all up to you how you run the engine.

Fuel ratio, compression setting, fuel formula and engine load are all related. So this is something that every owner has to find out for themselves. There are also large machining differences from one engine to another, so again you can only find the settings for each individual engine by running it.

In general you would use a higher compression setting to start the engine when it is cold. Once up to running temperature you can then back of the compression. On a hot engine you can instead reduce the compression setting a little for the start, and once the engine runs you go back to the running settings.

Once running you you need to tune on both the compression setting and the fuel ratio to find the optimum settings. These are then usually reproducible for the same fuel blend and similar weather conditions, but usually one world always give them a quick check to adjust for changes in the weather and/or the fuel etc.

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Status Report

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:37 pm

The mail from Cox has arrived after nearly 2 business weeks since mailed.

The engine has been almost fully reassembled with a Cox muffler. The engine has been mounted on the metallic part of the stand ( half of an Aluminium enclosure, usually used for electronics ) and the wood for the pedestal of the Aluminium enclosure is in house and has been measured, ready to be cut and mounted.

The Cox starter spring has yet not been attached. Although possible to be mounted over the muffler without any modification, I am afraid the spring may come out. I am thinking of a possibility to tie the C shaped attachment of the spring to the cylinder with a Copper wire to ensure the spring would not come out of the muffler but I am not sure whether this would work. I am reluctant to remodel the spring as this would make the spring loose some tension or be slightly displaced of normal position.

I will hopefully continue with the assembly and the stand support tomorrow. I had to watch " Mayday " and " Close Encounters ". Sorry.

The piston rod of the new piston has a slight tolerance when moved up and down against the piston. I think this tolerance is bigger than 1 to 3 thousandths of an inch as advertised by Cox. I will try to remember the slack between the piston and the piston rod for evaluation when resetting may be necessary and how much.

Although I have a new cylinder too, I have decided to use the old one which is broken in. Still, I would not work the engine at high RPM for a while to make sure the new piston is broken in too.

Everything seems to be OK. This would be the first start with a muffler ( except one which I did with Ether only as a fuel for a test and breaking in where, at very low compression and air valve ( throttle ) fully open and, I think, the fuel needle valve was either fully or almost fully open too where the engine started and run for a while ( a few seconds ) until the fuel burned on Ether and Castor Oil only ), so, please, wish the attempt all of the luck you can.


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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:38 pm

RknRusty wrote:Here is your Diesel crank

http://coxengines.ca/cox-.049-killer-bee-diesel-crank.html


Yes. This is the same link. This is the crankshaft used for Cox .049 Diesel. Thanks.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:40 pm

RknRusty wrote:Maybe when his piston arrives he can move on from the theoretical to the applied part of this project.
Rusty


I can hardly wait to make the wooden support to the stand and try the first start and run with a muffler and standard fuel.

Thanks.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:42 pm

dinsdale wrote:I must admit that "Steven Stanley Bayes" is entertaining, if not amusing, but don't you think it's time he gave his keyboard a rest?  Same questions, same answers - over and over.  

Steven Stanley Bayes, you've been told all the answers from the blokes who know.  It's about time to move on to your next forum of choice and wear out their good will.


Thanks. Yet, I have not had many inputs on : Start and Run Settings, Fuels and Alternative Fuels. This is what I have wanted the most from this forum. Thanks for all of the response, though.


Last edited by StevenStanleyBayes on Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:12 am

Surfer_kris wrote:
StevenStanleyBayes wrote:
I AM VERY MUCH INTERESTED IN THE SETTINGS ( AIR VALVE ( THROTTLE ), FUEL NEEDLE VALVE, COMPRESSION ) OF THIS OR ANY OTHER ENGINE WITH ANY FUEL INCLUDING DAVIS DIESEL : START UP SETTINGS ( WHEN YOU START THE ENGINE ) AND RUNNING SETTINGS ( WHEN YOU RUN THE ENGINE NORMALLY ).

The air valve can be in any position you like, it has the same function as could start choke on regular engines. So you could either use it as a cold start choke to enricher the fuel to air ratio, or you use the main needle to do it. No one can tell you what these values should be as it is all up to you how you run the engine.

Fuel ratio, compression setting, fuel formula and engine load are all related. So this is something that every owner has to find out for themselves. There are also large machining differences from one engine to another, so again you can only find the settings for each individual engine by running it.

In general you would use a higher compression setting to start the engine when it is cold. Once up to running temperature you can then back of the compression. On a hot engine you can instead reduce the compression setting a little for the start, and once the engine runs you go back to the running settings.

Once running you you need to tune on both the compression setting and the fuel ratio to find the optimum settings. These are then usually reproducible for the same fuel blend and similar weather conditions, but usually one world always give them a quick check to adjust for changes in the weather and/or the fuel etc.



THIS IS WHAT I CALL A HELPFUL TOPIC OF A RESPONSE. THANKS.

I have tried to use the fuel needle valve for start up enrichment as you and some of the Cox distributed documentation ( McQueen ) says. I have not been able to do so. Looks like everyone else in the world can and only I cannot. Hence the cry for help with the settings and not only. Unless the compression is very low, the engine would not be able to sustain the too open settings and jump to high RPM, although, OTHER PEOPLE DO SO AND SHOW SO. Again, you are right, yet, I am unable to do so and I do not know why. Too low compression, though does not ignite the Ether. I fully agree these depend on the fuel. I have used 39% Ether, 34% Kerosene, 24% Castor Oil, 3% Cetane Booster. Too advanced. When I position fuel needle valve to 5 turns open and air valve to fully open to enrich the mixture and compression to around one eighth open, the engine starts and stops in a few turns. I tried with lower compression, I think, but I tried so many things so I may have forgotten. These settings bring fuel and this is still something I am happy with.

Thus, I have used your other suggestion for all more closed as I have described. Worked OK. However, never tried with muffler. Hence I want to have many inputs. I want to also be able to start the engine in many different ways ( settings ) to have many back up start up scenarios. This is why I have cried for help and I have received a very good input from you. In case you start OK with open enrichment, therefore, either I do something totally wrong or the fuel is very different than yours.

I will remember your input and keep trying.

Initially, I thought exactly like you ( the normal way ) : start with higher compression and then decrease and many people on YouTube do so and works perfectly. I have found, however, in the case I am in, the other way around is what happens. Cox also say so. With the Cox published fuel : 40% Ether, 35% Kerosene, 25% Castor Oil, and the closed settings for enrichment, I start at lower compression ( one eighth or around unscrewed compression screw ) and then have a few seconds to slightly close the compression screw, otherwise, the engine may stop.

I am happy, however, you have managed to do what is standard to do. I do this with the other fuel with Cetane Booster.

The very main reason for crying out loud for help with starter settings is because, unlike you, I have an incredibly strict restrains on the settings and, looks like, I am the only one. After a lot of blood, sweat and ether, I have only been able to start the engine with these settings and nothing else and I have tried a lot, although, I admit, not as much with a starter spring because I have been stupid to think I can start the engine with a drill or hand cranking the propeller.

Anyway, for your comments and suggestions and help : This is the only way I can start the engine so far :

Method : Spring Start

Muffler : No

Temperature of Engine : Room ( 25C )

Temperature of Fuel : Around Room ( 25C )

Usual Number of Spring Starts to Start at Settings : 4
 
Fuel : 39% John Deere 80% Ether Starter Fluid, 34% Kerosene from the Camping Section of a big store, 24% Castor Oil from Cox, 3% Cetane Booster : 2 EthylExyl Nitrate & Xelone

Settings :

Compression Screw : around one eighth open ( the most closed compression screw to allow one or two more spins when spring started ( the propeller rotates freely ) )
Air Valve ( Throttle ) : one eighth open only
Fuel Needle valve : three and a quarter turns open from fully closed

These have been very consistent BUT, I REPEAT, THESE HAVE BEEN THE ONLY SETTINGS I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO START THE ENGINE WITH.

All of you seem to start the engine with any settings, even open. One of the Cox distributed documents, written by Mr. McQueen suggests open enrichment as well as you. I SEEM TO BE THE ONLY ONE WITH THIS PROBLEM. Obviously, I may be doing something wrong.

YOU ARE PROBABLY THE FIRST PERSON ON THE FORUM TO TALK SETTINGS. THANK YOU! I STRONGLY BEG YOU TO CONTINUE, PLEASE, AS WELL AS I ASK ALL TO GET INTO THIS DICUSSION.

THANKS!
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  RknRusty on Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:48 am

I don't know diesel operation so can't help with settings. But don't worry too much about a little slop at the ball and socket. Even with the right reset tool, it takes a practiced and deft touch to tighten it without mushrooming the crown. I've mushroomed a few and usually avoid doing it unless I'm going to be running hard and hot at high RPMs. If you feel you must reset one, it helps if you use the same hammer every time so you know just how much to hit it. Also you need an anvil like the small one on most vise clamps as your support for the tool. I use a vise bolted to a disk brake rotor and placed on my concrete floor so there is zero cushion to absorb the impact. A wood table may not always suffice. But again, I'd recommend avoiding that until you get the rest ironed out. It shouldn't affect the engine's performance, and at operating temperature, it's probably tighter than what you feel when it's cold.

It usually needs reset only once in its life after break-in because the metal gets work hardened, but high RPMs are usually what loosens them in a glow fuel engine. A little slop is okay. The eventual castor varnish may tighten it some too. It builds up during rich break-in runs more than lean fast runs. With our modern 50/50 castor/synthetic glow fuel, we don't get as much buildup as with pure castor. With the synthetic in the blend, it tends to attain a beneficial coating of varnish and level off there. Our diesel guys may have some different ideas about the subject, so we'll see if they toss in any helpful tips.
Rusty

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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:24 am

RknRusty wrote:I don't know diesel operation so can't help with settings. But don't worry too much about a little slop at the ball and socket. Even with the right reset tool, it takes a practiced and deft touch to tighten it without mushrooming the crown. I've mushroomed a few and usually avoid doing it unless I'm going to be running hard and hot at high RPMs. If you feel you must reset one, it helps if you use the same hammer every time so you know just how much to hit it. Also you need an anvil like the small one on most vise clamps as your support for the tool. I use a vise bolted to a disk brake rotor and placed on my concrete floor so there is zero cushion to absorb the impact. A wood table may not always suffice. But again, I'd recommend avoiding that until you get the rest ironed out. It shouldn't affect the engine's performance, and at operating temperature, it's probably tighter than what you feel when it's cold.

It usually needs reset only once in its life after break-in because the metal gets work hardened, but high RPMs are usually what loosens them in a glow fuel engine. A little slop is okay. The eventual castor varnish may tighten it some too. It builds up during rich break-in runs more than lean fast runs. With our modern 50/50 castor/synthetic glow fuel, we don't get as much buildup as with pure castor. With the synthetic in the blend, it tends to attain a beneficial coating of varnish and level off there. Our diesel guys may have some different ideas about the subject, so we'll see if they toss in any helpful tips.
Rusty


Thanks a lot. This is very helpful. I will try not to reset the piston unless the slack is much higher than the original. This was not the case before and I paid for fixing what was not broken. Good I learned your post.

Thanks.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:31 am

StevenStanleyBayes wrote:
Surfer_kris wrote:
StevenStanleyBayes wrote:
I AM VERY MUCH INTERESTED IN THE SETTINGS ( AIR VALVE ( THROTTLE ), FUEL NEEDLE VALVE, COMPRESSION ) OF THIS OR ANY OTHER ENGINE WITH ANY FUEL INCLUDING DAVIS DIESEL : START UP SETTINGS ( WHEN YOU START THE ENGINE ) AND RUNNING SETTINGS ( WHEN YOU RUN THE ENGINE NORMALLY ).

The air valve can be in any position you like, it has the same function as could start choke on regular engines. So you could either use it as a cold start choke to enricher the fuel to air ratio, or you use the main needle to do it. No one can tell you what these values should be as it is all up to you how you run the engine.

Fuel ratio, compression setting, fuel formula and engine load are all related. So this is something that every owner has to find out for themselves. There are also large machining differences from one engine to another, so again you can only find the settings for each individual engine by running it.

In general you would use a higher compression setting to start the engine when it is cold. Once up to running temperature you can then back of the compression. On a hot engine you can instead reduce the compression setting a little for the start, and once the engine runs you go back to the running settings.

Once running you you need to tune on both the compression setting and the fuel ratio to find the optimum settings. These are then usually reproducible for the same fuel blend and similar weather conditions, but usually one world always give them a quick check to adjust for changes in the weather and/or the fuel etc.



Also, please, note the fuel has much more advanced ignition than other people's fuels as this contains 40% Ether. I can only the open valve enrichment start scenario would work with less advanced ignition fuels. One of the documents, also distributed by Cox, suggests 20% Ether which would probably also give more powerful combustion at the expense of the temperature. I am afraid to try this fuel for now. I will also be afraid to try this fuel after break in. I may try in the future when I overcome the psychological barrier I now have not to try new things for a while from now on.

I presume you run Davis Diesel. Do they provide the ingredients and the percentages and can you or anyone post them here.

THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR HELP. MEANS A LOT.



THIS IS WHAT I CALL A HELPFUL TOPIC OF A RESPONSE. THANKS.

I have tried to use the fuel needle valve for start up enrichment as you and some of the Cox distributed documentation ( McQueen ) says. I have not been able to do so. Looks like everyone else in the world can and only I cannot. Hence the cry for help with the settings and not only. Unless the compression is very low, the engine would not be able to sustain the too open settings and jump to high RPM, although, OTHER PEOPLE DO SO AND SHOW SO. Again, you are right, yet, I am unable to do so and I do not know why. Too low compression, though does not ignite the Ether. I fully agree these depend on the fuel. I have used 39% Ether, 34% Kerosene, 24% Castor Oil, 3% Cetane Booster. Too advanced. When I position fuel needle valve to 5 turns open and air valve to fully open to enrich the mixture and compression to around one eighth open, the engine starts and stops in a few turns. I tried with lower compression, I think, but I tried so many things so I may have forgotten. These settings bring fuel and this is still something I am happy with.

Thus, I have used your other suggestion for all more closed as I have described. Worked OK. However, never tried with muffler. Hence I want to have many inputs. I want to also be able to start the engine in many different ways ( settings ) to have many back up start up scenarios. This is why I have cried for help and I have received a very good input from you. In case you start OK with open enrichment, therefore, either I do something totally wrong or the fuel is very different than yours.

I will remember your input and keep trying.

Initially, I thought exactly like you ( the normal way ) : start with higher compression and then decrease and many people on YouTube do so and works perfectly. I have found, however, in the case I am in, the other way around is what happens. Cox also say so. With the Cox published fuel : 40% Ether, 35% Kerosene, 25% Castor Oil, and the closed settings for enrichment, I start at lower compression ( one eighth or around unscrewed compression screw ) and then have a few seconds to slightly close the compression screw, otherwise, the engine may stop.

I am happy, however, you have managed to do what is standard to do. I do this with the other fuel with Cetane Booster.

The very main reason for crying out loud for help with starter settings is because, unlike you, I have an incredibly strict restrains on the settings and, looks like, I am the only one. After a lot of blood, sweat and ether, I have only been able to start the engine with these settings and nothing else and I have tried a lot, although, I admit, not as much with a starter spring because I have been stupid to think I can start the engine with a drill or hand cranking the propeller.

Anyway, for your comments and suggestions and help : This is the only way I can start the engine so far :

Method : Spring Start

Muffler : No

Temperature of Engine : Room ( 25C )

Temperature of Fuel : Around Room ( 25C )

Usual Number of Spring Starts to Start at Settings : 4
 
Fuel : 39% John Deere 80% Ether Starter Fluid, 34% Kerosene from the Camping Section of a big store, 24% Castor Oil from Cox, 3% Cetane Booster : 2 EthylExyl Nitrate & Xelone

Settings :

Compression Screw : around one eighth open ( the most closed compression screw to allow one or two more spins when spring started ( the propeller rotates freely ) )
Air Valve ( Throttle ) : one eighth open only
Fuel Needle valve : three and a quarter turns open from fully closed

These have been very consistent BUT, I REPEAT, THESE HAVE BEEN THE ONLY SETTINGS I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO START THE ENGINE WITH.

All of you seem to start the engine with any settings, even open. One of the Cox distributed documents, written by Mr. McQueen suggests open enrichment as well as you. I SEEM TO BE THE ONLY ONE WITH THIS PROBLEM. Obviously, I may be doing something wrong.

YOU ARE PROBABLY THE FIRST PERSON ON THE FORUM TO TALK SETTINGS. THANK YOU! I STRONGLY BEG YOU TO CONTINUE, PLEASE, AS WELL AS I ASK ALL TO GET INTO THIS DICUSSION.

THANKS!
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  RknRusty on Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:37 am

If you're trying to crank any new engine with a muffler, you're making it much more difficult. Learn to crank, and break it in without a muffler. This lets you prime it at the exhaust port. Then when you get the hang of it, and the engine has settled in and will run dependably, you can install the muffler and re-learn how it needs to be primed and cranked. In a glow engine, if it starts brightly and stops in a few seconds, then it's needle is probably set too lean. Open 1/4 turn, re-prime and try again. Otherwise, it's possible there is a fuel feed problem.

Make sure the internal pickup of the tank is on the same horizontal plane as the venturi(not lower) so it doesn't fight gravity and drain back before its vacuum can pull it through the line. And if it's higher than the venturi it can flood the engine, though reed engines aren't quite as bad as rotary valve engines about that, but it can happen. Also it's important to use the shortest possible fuel line from the tank to the engine. After fixing any of the tank position problems, if all it will do is scream BRRAAAP and quit after burning off the prime, something could be clogging the Needle valve..
Rusty

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Status Report

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:25 pm

Unable to respond to posts now. Will do this soon.

Started with a muffler. Took a few hours. New settings. Not used to. Need to do more starts.

No video.

Pictures available. Unable to upload the .doc file with the pictures on the web site. File too large. Must select a few. Will do.

Don't know how to post pictures here.


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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  RknRusty on Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:33 pm


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Pictures of the Engine and the Stand

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:52 pm

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Muffler

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:57 pm

Started with the Cox muffler. Took 5 hours. Hell.

Spring OK. No need to be tied.

Everything standard except muffler positioned asymmetrically to the holes, I. e. twisted from original position. Not supposed to but may have effect on start and performance. Will do as they say to get even flow from the two sets of exhaust line holes.

Quieter than a door buzzer. Amazing.

As expected, muffler takes power and so does a big propeller. Can be compromised by a bigger muffler hole.

Difficult to start, mainly, difficult to sustain. Can do, though. More difficult to control after start.

Fuel and settings : will be posted soon.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

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