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Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:18 pm

Ken Cook wrote:                   I've been running 3 particular engines for over a year now on full synthetic fuels. One of these engines would be a Cox Sure Start on 24% 30%nitro heli full synthetic fuel. As far as endurance is concerned, many mention the failure of the ball socket if no castor oil is present. To date, I haven't witnessed this. My prop of choice on this engine is a Cox black rubber ducky cut down to 3 3/8" running at full bore on this fuel. This was a brand new engine out of the package and the only thing I did was to initially reset the play in the ball socket. Engine runs great, starts easy and I let it scream the whole tank out. I have a log of how much fuel which has been run through this engine to date. No measurements were taken, just the typical crank wobble check. This engine cost me $3 and by no means was I concerned if it hand grenaded.

Another engine I'm running 50/50 synthetic fuel  on is a redhead Mccoy .35. This engine has not only been bench run with smaller than usually desired props, I'm flying this engine as well. So far things seem to be fine. I strongly feel if the quality of the fuel is good and the oil content is sufficient, I believe all should be fine. I've been running 22% 50/50 Powermaster in all of my iron piston engines for almost 20 years now without failure.
Ken




Thank you. This is good to know as far as reliability is concerned and is a good evidence of a high one.

However, the people who mentioned longevity are more interested in longevity when the engine runs continuously. I know you are unable to say anything on this because you have been running the engine on an airplane and not on a stand thus you cannot run the engine continuously.

I would be happy in case you share approximately how often and for how long have you run the Cox engine : for example : twice weekly 2 hours almost continuously ( load the tank, run the airplane until tank empty, land the airplane, load the tank, fly again, the same procedure again and again ) and for how many years.

The information you have provided ( you have many engines and you got Cox for $3 so you do not care and abuse the engine as much as you can ) is very important. Thanks.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:36 pm

WingingIt74 wrote:Here's another question...

Is this for a college course or is this for a real world application? The reason why I ask, is there that much of a need for a hand-held combustion engine 12V DC generator?

In a real world application, how easily is it to obtain the correct fuel to run a Cox engine?

I would think that this solar cell would be more practical out in the real world, unless there is no sunlight.

This is for real applications.

As I have mentioned : solar power is OK except the solar panels are sold very expensively because of the increase demand as opposed to the 90's where the same ( even more powerful ) solar panel would cost less than $10 and often $5 when on sale. The reason was : no one wanted one although to put one on the dashboard to charge the battery was a great idea. However, when put loose, the panel would obstruct the windshield ducts and when put loose on the back would bang the speakers. No one wanted to drill holes in the dashboard or the back, hence no one purchased these although there were plenty of laptops and cell phones ( the amount of the laptops was not as high as now because they were very expensive and only a few had them but still there was ).

The biggest problem with solar panels is their low power output : you need one hell of a panel to get a few Watts and they are bulky and heavy. Some use foldable : still bulky and heavy.

Obviously, even bigger problem is they only run at a huge sun light directly at 90 degrees towards them.

One cannot run such at night and one needs a big battery or secondary batteries to accumulate energy during day to use at night.

As I have clearly said : I am pretty much sure I can get 24W out of the generator. I have also said solar power is better than anything else when possible to be obtained because the sun still shines for free and there is no fee nor tax for utilisation of the sun light.

The same applies for portable wind and water turbines. They also run for free but only where there is running water and or wind.

This is why a micro generator of any kind is extremely welcome. The biggest problem of these is the price of the fuel : $30 per L for 4 to 8 hours of run. Some people say they run the engine on biodiesel which is very inexpensive. I HAVE BEEN ASKING THEM WHAT ARE THE INGREDIENTS AND THE PERCENTAGES AS WELL AS THE SETTINGS TO RUN THE ENGINE ON BIODIESEL AND WHETHER THEY START THE ENGINE ON BIODIESEL OR THEY START ON STANDARD FUEL AND THEN SWITCH TO BIODIESEL ON THE FLY.

I still have not received an answer.

However, as I have been saying, there is a solution to this problem : USE GRASS TRIMMER ENGINE AND DYNAMO OR ALTERNATOR. This is what I call a mini engine. Everything is standard and everyone knows everything there is to know of these engines as everyone has one or more of them.

The mini generator is slightly bigger and slightly heavier than the micro generator BUT will still fit in a backpack. ( Well, not very slightly ). Runs on gasoline and oil ( two cycle engine ) which are not so expensive. May as well be as heavy as a large, foldable solar panel. True one has to carry gasoline too, though.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:53 pm

WingingIt74 wrote:Here's another question...

Is this for a college course or is this for a real world application? The reason why I ask, is there that much of a need for a hand-held combustion engine 12V DC generator?

In a real world application, how easily is it to obtain the correct fuel to run a Cox engine?

I would think that this solar cell would be more practical out in the real world, unless there is no sunlight.

Another way to get energy for free is from the waves of the sea / ocean. I have even heard people talking to make huge, commercial generator and get I don't know how many megawatts out of the see. Whilst you can put a portable water turbine in the sea, I have never heard anyone to have made the commercial wave generators, not even the British who seem to have plenty of sea and ocean around them.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  ian1954 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:14 pm

$30 per litre seems a little expensive. In the UK 10% nitro glow fuel (castor oil) is about £3.50 per litre. Model diesel fuel is about £7.50 per litre.

The more you buy the cheaper it gets.

http://www.southernmodelcraft.co.uk/model-fuels.php

I usually mix my own as it works out a little cheaper and I like to play around with the mix.

I have seen true vintage model diesel engines set up to run with 5 parts ether, 4 parts motor car diesel fuel and 1 part Castrol XXL 40 motor car oil. Although diesel car fuel here is currently £1.15 per litre but paraffin can be found for 50p per litre (no fuel tax). It makes no sense to use car diesel fuel.

I presume that bio diesel is diesel fuel equivalent.

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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  ian1954 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:24 pm

This is a model engine bio diesel mix

6 oz of Sunflower oil straght from the fridge.
2/3rd oz of kerosene (11%)
2/3rd oz of Camp stove fuel (naptha)(11%)
25 drops of Amsoil cetane booster. (1%)




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g0ri5kiRkM
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:29 pm

ian1954 wrote:$30 per litre seems a little expensive. In the UK 10% nitro glow fuel (castor oil) is about £3.50 per litre. Model diesel fuel is about £7.50 per litre.

The more you buy the cheaper it gets.

I usually mix my own as it works out a little cheaper and I like to play around with the mix.

I have seen true vintage model diesel engines set up to run with 5 parts ether, 4 parts motor car diesel fuel and 1 part Castrol XXL 40 motor car oil. Although diesel car fuel here is currently £1.15 per litre but paraffin can be found for 50p per litre (no fuel tax). It makes no sense to use car diesel fuel.

I presume that bio diesel is diesel fuel equivalent.



The main problem with the diesel fuel for Cox is the Ether. I thank you for the information on Ether, Diesel and Castrol.

Here are the prices and difficulties in Canada ( Ottawa, Ontario ) :

Ether : Not Available. Ether is sold by John Deere as John Deere Starter Fluid. The price is $5 to $6 for 200g.

Methanol is not available. Kerosene is available everywhere in the camping section of the big shops. The price is $8.50 per 1L. However, because people in North America use Kerosene for heating as well as for paint thinner and solvent, there are big tubes with a volume of 20L or more. Then Kerosene is less expensive.

Castor Oil is available at any pharmacy for $5 for 100g.

Pump Diesel is between $0.80 to $1.30 depending on the gas station.

Synthetic Oil American formula is $15 per 1L. European formula is $20 per 1L.

The most important is to avoid Ether. Not only is Ether expensive here BUT this is sold only at John Deere dealerships. These are usually situated in the outskirts of the cities very far away to drive to there and there aren't buses to go there, usually.

Canada Post does not allow any flammables to be mailed and hence no one does so. In the US, The US Post Office allow flammables to be mailed, hence there are a lot of web sites which sell all kind of chemicals which are also extremely expensive but is not necessary to travel 20 to 50 km to get so.

Walmart also sells Ether based starter fluids BUT they are not good because they are not pure Ether. Thus, here, John Deere is the only way for one to get Ether.

I am happy to hear prices in the UK are so low. I wished I was there now.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:35 pm

StevenStanleyBayes wrote:
WingingIt74 wrote:Here's another question...

Is this for a college course or is this for a real world application? The reason why I ask, is there that much of a need for a hand-held combustion engine 12V DC generator?

In a real world application, how easily is it to obtain the correct fuel to run a Cox engine?

I would think that this solar cell would be more practical out in the real world, unless there is no sunlight.

Another way to get energy for free is from the waves of the sea / ocean. I have even heard people talking to make huge, commercial generator and get I don't know how many megawatts out of the see. Whilst you can put a portable water turbine in the sea, I have never heard anyone to have made the commercial wave generators, not even the British who seem to have plenty of sea and ocean around them.



Again : solar power is the best when there is sun regardless of the huge prices of solar panels which cost a few cents to be made in China but the shops here sell them for nearly $100 and more.

In regards to what I have said for free energy, I have also heard people to talk to make energy from the tides. Again, I have never seen anyone to have done a power station to derive energy from the tides and waves of seas and oceans which is a shame because this is the least expensive energy. I have never seen a sea without waves. On occasion, the waves are tiny, on occasion, huge. Yet, people just talk but no one has done anything.

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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:37 pm

[quote="ian1954"]This is a model engine bio diesel mix

6 oz of Sunflower oil straght from the fridge.
2/3rd oz of kerosene (11%)
2/3rd oz of Camp stove fuel (naptha)(11%)
25 drops of Amsoil cetane booster. (1%)




THIS IS INGENIOUS! THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS INFORMATION!
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  RknRusty on Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:46 pm

Ken Cook wrote:                   I've been running 3 particular engines for over a year now on full synthetic fuels. One of these engines would be a Cox Sure Start on 24% 30%nitro heli full synthetic fuel. As far as endurance is concerned, many mention the failure of the ball socket if no castor oil is present. To date, I haven't witnessed this. My prop of choice on this engine is a Cox black rubber ducky cut down to 3 3/8" running at full bore on this fuel. This was a brand new engine out of the package and the only thing I did was to initially reset the play in the ball socket. Engine runs great, starts easy and I let it scream the whole tank out. I have a log of how much fuel which has been run through this engine to date. No measurements were taken, just the typical crank wobble check. This engine cost me $3 and by no means was I concerned if it hand grenaded.

Haha, dang, you're making us castor drum beaters look bad. That's amazing. We used to have a member called Bullitt, from Charleston SC. He wanted to learn to fly CL for his birthday and came up here. Gave me a third of a gallon of Cool Power. I might do that to one of my used Bees.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:59 pm

RknRusty wrote:
Ken Cook wrote:                   I've been running 3 particular engines for over a year now on full synthetic fuels. One of these engines would be a Cox Sure Start on 24% 30%nitro heli full synthetic fuel. As far as endurance is concerned, many mention the failure of the ball socket if no castor oil is present. To date, I haven't witnessed this. My prop of choice on this engine is a Cox black rubber ducky cut down to 3 3/8" running at full bore on this fuel. This was a brand new engine out of the package and the only thing I did was to initially reset the play in the ball socket. Engine runs great, starts easy and I let it scream the whole tank out. I have a log of how much fuel which has been run through this engine to date. No measurements were taken, just the typical crank wobble check. This engine cost me $3 and by no means was I concerned if it hand grenaded.

Haha, dang, you're making us castor drum beaters look bad. That's amazing. We used to have a member called Bullitt, from Charleston SC. He wanted to learn to fly CL for his birthday and came up here. Gave me a third of a gallon of Cool Power. I might do that to one of my used Bees.
Rusty


I think the advantages of Castor Oil outweigh the disadvantages and Castor Oil is better. Cox also recommends this.

Castor Oil Costs $5 for 100g in Ottawa, Ontario Canada. Synthetic Oil is also expensive. High performance synthetic oil with temperature of autoignition higher than 500C may be available but only in Lamborghini, Ferrari, Rolls Royce, may be Jaguar, and alike dealerships which means the price would be even higher than the price of Castor Oil.

The Internet says there are ( theoretically ) synthetic oils which have temperature of autoignition higher than 700C. Probably, only in laboratories.

The greatest advantage of Castor Oil is Castor Oil clings to the metal and remains there. Castor Oil is made of the plant Castor and, therefore, is organic. Castor oil has a very high temperature of burning and, thus, is not supposed to burn in RC engines.

Every organic material, when burns, deposits carbon to the components around. This carbon may have some protective role but not very much. Once carbon is deposited over the metal, Castor Oil does not cling to carbon. The protection of the carbon is not as good as the protection of clung Castor Oil.

The deposited carbon in the cylinder is known as bur. Too much of this may even get the piston stuck.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  Marleysky on Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:27 pm


StevenStanleyBayes wrote:
WingingIt74 wrote:Here's another ?

I would think that this solar cell would be more practical out in the real world, unless there is no sunlight.

Another way to get energy for free is from the waves of the sea / ocean. I have even heard people talking to make huge, commercial generator and get I don't know how many megawatts out of the see. Whilst you can put a portable water turbine in the sea, I have never heard anyone to have made the commercial wave generators, not even the British who seem to have plenty of sea and ocean around them.

IMHO : at the end of WW3 the nuclear blast cloud will cover the sky, there will be no sunlight. Solar power will be useless. Humans may not survive.

On the other hand in a more positive note:
There has been extensive research and development on tidal power or ocean mounted under water wind mills.  For further details read more at  Wikipedia



Tidal stream generator

Evopod - A semi-submerged floating approach tested in Strangford Lough.
A tidal stream generator, often referred to as a tidal energy converter (TEC) is a machine that extracts energy from moving masses of water, in particular tides, although the term is often used in reference to machines designed to extract energy from run of river or tidal estuarine sites. Certain types of these machines function very much like underwater wind turbines, and are thus often referred to as tidal turbines. They were first conceived in the 1970s during the oil crisis.[1]

Tidal stream generators are the cheapest and the least ecologically damaging among the three main forms of tidal power generation.[2]

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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:34 am

Marleysky wrote:
StevenStanleyBayes wrote:
WingingIt74 wrote:Here's another ?

I would think that this solar cell would be more practical out in the real world, unless there is no sunlight.

Another way to get energy for free is from the waves of the sea / ocean. I have even heard people talking to make huge, commercial generator and get I don't know how many megawatts out of the see. Whilst you can put a portable water turbine in the sea, I have never heard anyone to have made the commercial wave generators, not even the British who seem to have plenty of sea and ocean around them.

IMHO :  at the end of WW3 the nuclear blast cloud will  cover the sky, there will be no sunlight. Solar power will be useless. Humans may not survive.

On the other hand in a more positive note:
There has been extensive research and development on tidal power or ocean mounted under water wind mills.  For further details read more at  Wikipedia



Tidal stream generator

Evopod - A semi-submerged floating approach tested in Strangford Lough.
A tidal stream generator, often referred to as a tidal energy converter (TEC) is a machine that extracts energy from moving masses of water, in particular tides, although the term is often used in reference to machines designed to extract energy from run of river or tidal estuarine sites. Certain types of these machines function very much like underwater wind turbines, and are thus often referred to as tidal turbines. They were first conceived in the 1970s during the oil crisis.[1]

Tidal stream generators are the cheapest and the least ecologically damaging among the three main forms of tidal power generation.[2]

My Two Cents


This is OK. But have these actually ever been built or just been tested since 1970? In case of so, how many?

As I have said, people have been talking of these and, yes, there may have been some tested but have they been built? Do they generate power for the average consumer ( not only for a lab in a University )? In case the answer is yes, how many? Just a couple or a few thousands?

I have never heard of tidal power generators which supply power to cities and towns and I have heard of a lot of water, coal, gas, diesel, nuclear even wind power generators which are in use.

One way or another, I still think more power can be generated from waves than from tidal generators. Wave generators are wind generators essentially, because winds mainly generate waves. However, winds can blow elsewhere in difficult to access places and deliver the waves to easily accessible places where inexpensive stations can be built.

Anyway, what do these all, as well as solar have to do with Cox engines. I think we all got carried away.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  WingingIt74 on Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:55 am

Steven, I hate to break it to you, but there is no serious or real application for a cox powered 12V generator.

  • If you are doing it for fun, that's awesome.
  • If your doing it to bring it to market, sorry man it won't sell.  
  • The end cost will be too high and solar is more practical.
  • Wind power would be more practical.
  • Using an engine that is out of production is not practical either.


Let's say the end user is in the middle of the woods and needs power to charge their cell phone, would you use a 100db micro generator or a quiet eco-friendly solar cell.

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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  WingingIt74 on Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:09 am

Now if you want power anywhere, I would suggest steam powered micro generator. Fuel is everywhere and free.

These are a pretty cool design.
http://www.greensteamengine.com

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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  Surfer_kris on Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:31 pm

There are also hand-driven generators, works anywhere anytime;

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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:22 pm

Surfer_kris wrote:There are also hand-driven generators, works anywhere anytime;



This is what I try to avoid with the generator I make : hand cranking.

There are also old US military folding bicycle style crank generators. The are no longer manufactured nor used by the army and are sold where available as army surplus.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:32 pm

[quote="WingingIt74"]Now if you want power anywhere, I would suggest steam powered micro generator. Fuel is everywhere and free.

These are a pretty cool design.

This is OK but requires external burning and fire maintenance.

Another way to do this is with engines with external combustion. There are such generators mainly used in yachts because they do not make noise.

There is no need to wait for the fire to heat the water and there is no need for a boiler. Just simple fuel and the engine starts simultaneously.

Again, the problem is there is external burning as well as the efficiency of the engine is not good as well as the power gain per size is very low. Hence they have them on yachts where they do not care as much what the size of the generator is ( to a certain limit ).
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:47 pm

WingingIt74 wrote:Steven, I hate to break it to you, but there is no serious or real application for a cox powered 12V generator.


  • If you are doing it for fun, that's awesome.
  • If your doing it to bring it to market, sorry man it won't sell.  
  • The end cost will be too high and solar is more practical.
  • Wind power would be more practical.
  • Using an engine that is out of production is not practical either.


Let's say the end user is in the middle of the woods and needs power to charge their cell phone, would you use a 100db micro generator or a quiet eco-friendly solar cell.


I think you are wrong on all or most points.

1. Again : solar power is not better because solar power is not always available ( only when the sun shines ) and the size required per a unit of power is huge. One needs huge folding panels to derive not as much power. ALSO, THESE ARE EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE.

2. The Cox engine is still available. Also, THE ENGINE CAN ALWAYS BE REPLACED BY ANOTHER ONE. Hence the pulleys and the belt : you just change the engine and line up the generator and the engine pulley and you are in business.

3. Again : wind power is not always available ( only when the wind blows ). See solar. Wind propellers must be very big.

4. As far as the price goes, Cox engines are priced very well. This is one of the reason why I use them for the prototype. THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF EXTREMELY INEXPENSIVE CHINESE ENGINES ON ALIEXPRESS in case price becomes an issue. The same applies for generators and alternators. The Chinese engines are sold for around $25 in singles which means they would cost less then $5 in high volumes should anyone is interested.

5. The project is for to make a prototype which is to be manufactured for the end user. The end price may as well be around $50 when manufactured with Chinese parts and may be less when manufactured by a Western company in China as most things are. The price and labour may as well be less than $20 per unit.

6. I also hate to inform you this project is extremely practical. There is ONLY ONE main problem : not the price of the device BUT THE PRICE OF FUEL AND OIL. A solution to this problem may come from people who have been using naphta ( auto ignition temperature of 225C ), pump diesel and biodiesel.
A lesser problem is the end user needs to get used to start the engine and adjust the controls which is not a big deal. Most people know all these things and much more.

Regardless of what people and companies thing, I think I have proven well enough the practicality of the project.

7. In case any shop was to sell such a generator for less than $100 ( working with inexpensive fuel ), I will be the first to line up to get one.

8. I am ONLY building a PROTOTYPE.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:53 pm

WingingIt74 wrote:Steven, I hate to break it to you, but there is no serious or real application for a cox powered 12V generator.


  • If you are doing it for fun, that's awesome.
  • If your doing it to bring it to market, sorry man it won't sell.  
  • The end cost will be too high and solar is more practical.
  • Wind power would be more practical.
  • Using an engine that is out of production is not practical either.


Let's say the end user is in the middle of the woods and needs power to charge their cell phone, would you use a 100db micro generator or a quiet eco-friendly solar cell.


Also forgot : Cox with a muffler is EXTREMELY QUIET. As loud as a vacuum cleaner or even less ( depending on the vacuum cleaner ). I would definitely use such an engine in the woods.

Obviously, when you are tracking animals to hunt, as you may know better than I, even a slight noise of stepping on a dry stick, would scare the animals. In such a case, even a wind generator or a hand or bicycle crank would be extremely loud. Even the bleeps of solar panels ( in case of any ) or the charged device ( cell phones ) would scare the animals.

However, for fishing, the problem is not as big because the generator can be put slightly away and a cable can be used for lights. The sound will not be much stronger than the sound coming from the highway near the pond.




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Stages of the Project

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:34 pm

I need to make a clarification. I have not taken to account the audience I talk to. Most of you have been running Cox and other micro engines for 20 or more years and hence there may be some misunderstanding.

Because I had never even touched an engine for model airplanes and cars before I got this one, I needed a stage of the project, listed below as stage 2, during which I needed to make the engine run and most importantly, to start reliably, I. e. to have some start up procedures and algorithms which always work. Most of you would not consider this stage as anything but a standard start and run, just the same as starting a car with the ignition key or button and then pressing gas and breaks. However, people new to these engines, I think, need a while to get used to and to explore the engine in order to provide the end user with more information to ensure the end user would know most of the things important for the engine.

This is why I posted here in this forum and clearly said : " Any help would be greatly appreciated. "

1. Purchase all necessary parts. Tiny and inexpensive and not important parts mistakenly purchased can be repurchased after.
2. RUN THE ENGINE with standard for the engine fuel.
3. Assemble the generator.
4. Test the generator.
5. Explore alternative and inexpensive fuels and oils.

Again, I am still at stage two. I am now waiting for the new piston ( which I broke during resetting due to mistakes I made ). Then, I intend to post a video which may not be very interesting to you but I found this very interesting : Just the engine on a stand which I have made ( which stand would be also the final stand of the prototype ) starting up with spring start and the algorithm mentioned in the project and running at various RPM including low.

Then I would assemble the project and run other videos with the final product.

What problems do I expect :

1. Lining up the engine pulley and the generator pulley and calculating them.
2. Ensuring the generator assembly is movable to cover for belt enlargements.
3. Finding a proper elastic tape to be used as a preliminary belt.
4. Finding and purchasing or making wider pulleys. I now have 5mm wide plastic pulleys only which may be difficult to line up and to work at various RPM without jumping out of the pulleys.
5. Finding and purchasing an O ring with the necessary diameter ( the thinner the better, probably 2.5mm ) and length. These are incredibly difficult to find anywhere except on AliExpress. Good think AliExpress has a lot of different kinds and sellers.

THE MAIN HELP I WANT FROM THE FORUM IS HELP WITH THE ENGINE. I am not interested in help with electrical and business as I think I am pretty much proficient with these. Obviously, any help is appreciated in these fields too. Just ensure other topic do not overshadow the main topic : THE ENGINE.

ANY HELP WITH THE ENGINE, MAINLY MIXING FUEL AND START UP SETTINGS AS WELL AS RUNNING SETTINGS IS VERY WELCOME.

The most important thing I would like to be helped with by the forum is : ALTERNATIVE INEXPENSIVE FUELS AND OILS AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, SETTINGS FOR EACH FUEL. The most important question is : Can the engine start with these fuels or the engine has to start with standard fuel and then switch to alternative. I think, the most important point in the alternative fuels is to get rid of the Ether AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

Also, any information on where I can get fuel components ( such as Ether and Castor Oil ) at very low prices will be appreciated. The problem is these need to be sold in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada because I do not think Internet sales can sell at a better price than local shops mainly but not only because of the price of the shipping.

PLEASE, IN CASE YOU WOULD LIKE TO HELP, TRY TO PREVENT YOURSELVES AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE FROM TALKING ON GENERAL SUBJECTS SUCH AS GIVING BUSINESS AND ELECTRICAL AND OR ELECTRONIC ADVISES AND CONCENTRATE ON THE ENGINE AND THE FUEL AND OIL.

I do not mean to be rude but I would try to make another attempt to ask you to concentrate on the engine : this forum is called " Cox Engine Forum " and not " Generator Forum ". Also, I am sorry to say this and I am saying this with the same goal : to concentrate these posts on the engine and fuels and not to insult anyone : Although there may be something and there always is, I doubt to some extend there is anything I need help with in regards to electrical, electronics, business, customers, general science, alternative power sources, etcetera. However, again, any help with the engine, the fuels and the oils is very much needed.

Thanks.


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Stages with the Project

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:34 pm

I need to make a clarification. I have not taken to account the audience I talk to. Most of you have been running Cox and other micro engines for 20 or more years and hence there may be some misunderstanding.

Because I had never even touched an engine for model airplanes and cars before I got this one, I needed a stage of the project, listed below as stage 2, during which I needed to make the engine run and most importantly, to start reliably, I. e. to have some start up procedures and algorithms which always work. Most of you would not consider this stage as anything but a standard start and run, just the same as starting a car with the ignition key or button and then pressing gas and breaks. However, people new to these engines, I think, need a while to get used to and to explore the engine in order to provide the end user with more information to ensure the end user would know most of the things important for the engine.

This is why I posted here in this forum and clearly said : " Any help would be greatly appreciated. "

1. Purchase all necessary parts. Tiny and inexpensive and not important parts mistakenly purchased can be repurchased after.
2. RUN THE ENGINE with standard for the engine fuel.
3. Assemble the generator.
4. Test the generator.
5. Explore alternative and inexpensive fuels and oils.

Again, I am still at stage two. I am now waiting for the new piston ( which I broke during resetting due to mistakes I made ). Then, I intend to post a video which may not be very interesting to you but I found this very interesting : Just the engine on a stand which I have made ( which stand would be also the final stand of the prototype ) starting up with spring start and the algorithm mentioned in the project and running at various RPM including low.

Then I would assemble the project and run other videos with the final product.

What problems do I expect :

1. Lining up the engine pulley and the generator pulley and calculating them.
2. Ensuring the generator assembly is movable to cover for belt enlargements.
3. Finding a proper elastic tape to be used as a preliminary belt.
4. Finding and purchasing or making wider pulleys. I now have 5mm wide plastic pulleys only which may be difficult to line up and to work at various RPM without jumping out of the pulleys.
5. Finding and purchasing an O ring with the necessary diameter ( the thinner the better, probably 2.5mm ) and length. These are incredibly difficult to find anywhere except on AliExpress. Good think AliExpress has a lot of different kinds and sellers.

THE MAIN HELP I WANT FROM THE FORUM IS HELP WITH THE ENGINE. I am not interested in help with electrical and business as I think I am pretty much proficient with these. Obviously, any help is appreciated in these fields too. Just ensure other topic do not overshadow the main topic : THE ENGINE.

ANY HELP WITH THE ENGINE, MAINLY MIXING FUEL AND START UP SETTINGS AS WELL AS RUNNING SETTINGS IS VERY WELCOME.

The most important thing I would like to be helped with by the forum is : ALTERNATIVE INEXPENSIVE FUELS AND OILS AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, SETTINGS FOR EACH FUEL. The most important question is : Can the engine start with these fuels or the engine has to start with standard fuel and then switch to alternative. I think, the most important point in the alternative fuels is to get rid of the Ether AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

Also, any information on where I can get fuel components ( such as Ether and Castor Oil ) at very low prices will be appreciated. The problem is these need to be sold in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada because I do not think Internet sales can sell at a better price than local shops mainly but not only because of the price of the shipping.

PLEASE, IN CASE YOU WOULD LIKE TO HELP, TRY TO PREVENT YOURSELVES AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE FROM TALKING ON GENERAL SUBJECTS SUCH AS GIVING BUSINESS AND ELECTRICAL AND OR ELECTRONIC ADVISES AND CONCENTRATE ON THE ENGINE AND THE FUEL AND OIL.

I do not mean to be rude but I would try to make another attempt to ask you to concentrate on the engine : this forum is called " Cox Engine Forum " and not " Generator Forum ". Also, I am sorry to say this and I am saying this with the same goal : to concentrate these posts on the engine and fuels and not to insult anyone : Although there may be something and there always is, I doubt to some extend there is anything I need help with in regards to electrical, electronics, business, customers, general science, alternative power sources, etcetera. However, again, any help with the engine, the fuels and the oils is very much needed.

Thanks.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  crankbndr on Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:19 pm

Cox International has some info on diesel fuel and operation, I've never run one but maybe this will help.

http://coxengines.ca/engine-and-fuel-guides.html
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:54 pm

crankbndr wrote:Cox International has some info on diesel fuel and operation, I've never run one but maybe this will help.



Thank you. I have read this as well as other Cox document which are called DEG.pdf and FG.pdf.

The document which you have posted a link to does cut Ether by half. Other documents suggest Ether content of around 35%.

I have not tested the start up and work of the engine with these yet.

I want to mention here, for people who can find and afford to purchase Ether, high Ether content makes the engine start better and work at lower temperature.

Cox suggests in one of the documents : 40% Ether, 35% Kerosene, 25% Castor Oil. I have been able to start the engine easily and to sustain the engine work with this fuel.

I have also added Cetane Booster to this Cox formula. Cetane Boosted has been suggested in two of the documents. I have used : 39% Ether, 34% Kerosene, 24% Castor Oil and 3% Cetane Booster. The engine started OK and sustained the work OK.

I have found the engine to sustain the work and to be not as sensitive to air, fuel and compression controls when Cetane Booster is added. Cetane booster makes the main fuel ( in this case Kerosene ) ignite faster and, probably, gain more power.

I thank you for the document. Because of your post, I may attempt 20% Ether, 25% Castor Oil, 52% Kerosene and 3% Cetane Booster in the future. In case this works, this would save a very good amount of money on fuel. In case of a problem, I may increase the amount of Cetane Booster at the expence of the amount of Kerosene.

Regardless, in order to avoid any misunderstanding, I would say again, people who can afford and find Ether easily must stick to the original Cox formula which is 40% Ether, 35% Kerosene, 25% Castor Oil.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  StevenStanleyBayes on Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:25 pm

StevenStanleyBayes wrote:
crankbndr wrote:Cox International has some info on diesel fuel and operation, I've never run one but maybe this will help.



Thank you. I have read this as well as other Cox document which are called DEG.pdf and FG.pdf.

The document which you have posted a link to does cut Ether by half. Other documents suggest Ether content of around 35%.

I have not tested the start up and work of the engine with these yet.

I want to mention here, for people who can find and afford to purchase Ether, high Ether content makes the engine start better and work at lower temperature.

Cox suggests in one of the documents : 40% Ether, 35% Kerosene, 25% Castor Oil. I have been able to start the engine easily and to sustain the engine work with this fuel.

I have also added Cetane Booster to this Cox formula. Cetane Boosted has been suggested in two of the documents. I have used : 39% Ether, 34% Kerosene, 24% Castor Oil and 3% Cetane Booster. The engine started OK and sustained the work OK.

I have found the engine to sustain the work and to be not as sensitive to air, fuel and compression controls when Cetane Booster is added. Cetane booster makes the main fuel ( in this case Kerosene ) ignite faster and, probably, gain more power.

I thank you for the document. Because of your post, I may attempt 20% Ether, 25% Castor Oil, 52% Kerosene and 3% Cetane Booster in the future. In case this works, this would save a very good amount of money on fuel. In case of a problem, I may increase the amount of Cetane Booster at the expence of the amount of Kerosene.

Regardless, in order to avoid any misunderstanding, I would say again, people who can afford and find Ether easily must stick to the original Cox formula which is 40% Ether, 35% Kerosene, 25% Castor Oil.


Also, I forgot to mention the settings.

For the two of these fuels : 40% Ether, 35% Kerosene, 25% Castor Oil and 39% Ether, 34% Kerosene, 24% Castor Oil and 3% Cetane Booster, I have used these settings to start the engine : Air Valve ( throttle ) : one eighth open, Fuel Needle Valve : three and a quarter turns open ( from fully closed ), Compression Screw : one eighth open ( the closest to closed when the spring gain a turn or two from the decreased compression). I have done a few " empty " spring starts at air valve ( throttle ) fully open and fuel needle valve open five and four turns just to bring fuel from the tank and through the fuel line into the crankcase and cylinder. I also primed with a drop or two of fuel in the air valve ( throttle ).

I HAVE NOT TRIED THE 20% ETHER FUEL YET ( 20% Ether, 25% Castor Oil, 52% Kerosene and 3% Cetane Booster ). I can only speculate on the settings but do not take this speculation for real : I speculate the air valve ( throrrle) has to be more open ( one quarter to a half ) to allow leaner mixture which brings more advanced ignition because the fuel is less advanced ( contains only 20% Ether and not 40% ). Again, this is just a speculation.

I may mix the new fuel ( 20% Ether, 25% Castor Oil, 52% Kerosene and 3% Cetane Booster ) and attempt to start at various settings. In case unsuccessful, I may add more ether to see when there will be a successful start.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

Post  Surfer_kris on Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:03 am

It sounds to me like you need to read up a bit on model diesel engines in general before moving on with the project. There are many errors in the report regarding the engine operation and the function of the variable compression head.

Model diesel fuel engines have excisted for a long time, well before glow engines came around, and you can rest assured that every possible combination of fuel has been tested already. To keep it short, our model engines are too weak in their construction to run fuels that can be used in full size engines. So the fuel is carefully designed to require a low compression ratio, and hence keep a low load on the internal parts. The level of ether is the the most important part (you'll need around 35%) and then one usually also adds a bit of ignition improver to make the engine run smooth. The ignition improver is a nasty chemical though, so you should keep this level low and there is no gain by using more than 1-2%. The oil level is then set by the construction of the engine, plain bearing engines with iron/steel construction (of piston and cylinder) will require 25-30% of pure castor oil for lubrication. Other engines, such as ball bearing engines with ABC or AAC, construction can use less oil around 20% is good but even down to 15% is possible for competition use (where engine life span is less important).

So if you want to experiment with other fuels, the first thing you need to do is to find an engine that is extra strong in its construction. There is no point in experimenting with other fuel blends on engines that are weak in their construction.

With that in mind, now lets take a look and the cox surestart with the Teflon disc conversion head. This engine has a plain bearing crank and the stock crank (designed for glow use) is too weak for the forces of diesel fuel. So you a need the strongest crank that cox ever made and the Teflon disc has been designed as a fail safe. Should the compression ratio or the temperature of the engine get too high then the seal of the disc will fail by leaking and the engine will stop running. So in essence the Cox engine will only run on fuel that ensure a low compression ratio, plus you need a lot of oil in the fuel for longevity of the engine.

So to take the sure start engine and run it on non-standard fuels for extended periods, just doesn't make much sense. You would either need a much sturdier construction engine (originally designed for diesel fuel) or stick to regular model diesel fuel with the cox engine.
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Re: Micro 12VDC Generator with a Cox .049 Sure Start Diesel Engine

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