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after running cleaning and protection

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after running cleaning and protection

Post  chevyiron420 on Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:45 pm

I would like to hear about your procedures and products you use to clean and protect your engines after running them.
Phil
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Re: after running cleaning and protection

Post  ian1954 on Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:06 pm

I use Fastrax After Run Oil - FAST64.

Doesn't seem to be available in the USA though. In the Uk it is about £3.10 for a 50ml bottle. It is really designed for the model car engines but I use it in diesels and glows.
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Re: after running cleaning and protection

Post  pkrankow on Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:24 pm

Typically I wipe the engine and airplane down and put it away. There is enough oil leftover inside the engine to prevent damage if the engine is in a good environment.

If I know I am not going to be using the engine for some time (several months or more) I have used ATF, or other lightweight oil. The key is to use oil that will remain liquid, and in place, over a long period of time. Automatic transmission fluid (ATF), motor oil, air tool oil, or other similar product will do the job well.

"3in1" is reported to congeal, but it seems to take more than 6 months to do so.

Phil
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Re: after running cleaning and protection

Post  pkrankow on Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:28 pm

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Re: after running cleaning and protection

Post  chevyiron420 on Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:33 pm

Thanks guy's, but am also interested in cleaning off all the castor from the outside as well and protecting the engine from corrosion. Also in cleaning up engines that are already gunked up on the outside. I have ben making a lot of engine runs lately and am cleaning them with a tooth brush and WD 40. I am not entirely satisfied.
Phil
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Re: after running cleaning and protection

Post  pkrankow on Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:10 pm

A toothbrush and some fuel can keep the outside pretty well clean if you stay with it most times out. Takes just a few moments every few flights...

For old used engines I soak in denatured alcohol for a few days and usually they come right apart and everything brushes right off, even the heavy caked on black. If it doesn't come right apart gentle use of heat from a heat gun finishes the job. The stuff trapped between the mating surfaces boils with being softened by the alcohol soak when at the right temperature.

Phil
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Re: after running cleaning and protection

Post  dinsdale on Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:19 am

Until recent years I've used ATF for after run, but I've been using Inox for several years now and I love it. You can buy it in aerosol or bulk. It's what I use on my rifles too. As for the outside, I mostly use Shellite (I think the great unwashed call it naptha Laughing )
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Re: after running cleaning and protection

Post  JasonB on Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:00 am

I wipe the plane down with windex and paper towel. Cuts the castor slime nicely.

If the plane is to be flown again within the year, that's it. Burn it dry and leave it be. Castor is good protection for the engine in short term storage.

If it is to be stored longer, I disassemble the engine, clean it well, and reassemble, oiling with ATF (automatic trans fluid).

J
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Re: after running cleaning and protection

Post  GallopingGhostler on Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:02 pm

chevyiron420 wrote:Thanks guy's, but am also interested in cleaning off all the castor from the outside as well and protecting the engine from corrosion. Also in cleaning up engines that are already gunked up on the outside. I have ben making a lot of engine runs lately and am cleaning them with a tooth brush and WD 40. I am not entirely satisfied.
Phil
This Enya 35-III TV was an E-Bay buy. I won it because there were no other bidders. It was covered in Castor grime on the outside and in bad need of devarnishing inside, apparently had in its life time only been run on Castor oil based fuel.

I used an old PolyPerk plastic percolator coffee pot with clean 50%-50% antifreeze/water solution. After coming to a boil, I let it stay on warm for two days. Castor grime came easily off with a brush, finished scrubbing witn an old toothbrush in dishwashing detergent, rinsed with water and dried.

Only piece that was gummed up was a new prop nut. For some reason the clean surface attracted Castor spooge. I let it soak in Acetone before wiping off.

After, I used Mother's Mag and Aluminum polish to clean the machined aluminum cylinder sides and head edges, carburetor. I previously cleaned the dingy muffler with Mother's.


I won it for a song, because the engine didn't look like much. Others bypassed it. My cleaning has paid off.

As the new proud owner, now it pops with like new compression of a just broken in engine. The only flaw in this case is a previous owner drilled out the motor mount holes. I found that a short piece of nylon tubing from a nylon pushrod tube system will work as a spacer to fit the hole and center around 4-40 bolts.

I know a desire was expressed for an alternative to antifreeze and a slow cooking / warming pot, but I have found this to be the easiest way to clean badly caked engines with a minimal amount of fuss. This will be the engine to power my 56" span Goldberg Falcon III (last update to the Falcon 56 design).

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After run procedures for Cox engines.

Post  Paulgibeault on Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:24 pm

I like to keep the exterior of my engines pristinely clean & often use an aerosol " Brake Parts Cleaner" & brush to do this with.

On the inside, at present I am just using a few drops of ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid). I apply it with a needle applicator on the piston (applied through the exhaust ports) & also a drop or two just behind the drive plate.  I also use this ATF on most everything during engine assembly. So far, so good...

Cheers, Paul





chevyiron420 wrote:I would like to hear about your procedures and products you use to clean and protect your engines after running them.
Phil
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Re: after running cleaning and protection

Post  KariFS on Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:08 am

GallopingGhostler wrote:I used an old PolyPerk plastic percolator coffee pot with clean 50%-50% antifreeze/water solution. After coming to a boil, I let it stay on warm for two days. Castor grime came easily off with a brush, finished scrubbing witn an old toothbrush in dishwashing detergent, rinsed with water and dried.

Do you use the "traditional" green antifreeze? And how warm do you keep the "soup" afterwards? I could take the kettle to my boiler room, on top of the boiler the temp is probably over 100degF. I can't leave the kettle on unless I am standing next to it.

If I forget the engines simmering for a few weeks, is there any risk of discoloration or other damage? I think I'll remove all the plastic parts first anyway.

Thanks Smile
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Re: after running cleaning and protection

Post  GallopingGhostler on Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:00 am

KariFS wrote:
GallopingGhostler wrote:I used an old PolyPerk plastic percolator coffee pot with clean 50%-50% antifreeze/water solution. After coming to a boil, I let it stay on warm for two days. Castor grime came easily off with a brush, finished scrubbing witn an old toothbrush in dishwashing detergent, rinsed with water and dried.
Do you use the "traditional" green antifreeze? And how warm do you keep the "soup" afterwards? I could take the kettle to my boiler room, on top of the boiler the temp is probably over 100degF. I can't leave the kettle on unless I am standing next to it.
Stuff I am using is Prestone Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant. It is is yellowish green with toxic ethylene glycol glycol, also diethylene glycol, sodium 2-ethyl hexanoate and sodum neodecaroate. I've never measured the temperature as I don't have a liquid thermometer to immerse. The percolator keeps it below boiling in warming mode, but still hot. Perhaps that is why it takes me 2 days of heating versus 1 for a crockpot in low heat (I've never tried a crockpot, what others say), which is around minimum 180 Degrees F (82 Deg C). I can't say whether your boiler method would work or not, depends on whether you can get it hot enough.

There was one person in RCGroups state he had good results with propylene glycol at 100% strength. I can't vouch for that as I have never tried it.

If I forget the engines simmering for a few weeks, is there any risk of discoloration or other damage? I think I'll remove all the plastic parts first anyway. Thanks Smile
I wouldn't leave it for a couple weeks, not telling what may happen. I didn't experience any darkening in cleaning two Testors McCoy .35 Red Heads. In cleaning an Enya .35-III TV, I did experience a very slight darkening on spots of the factorty polished lathe turned cylinder fins and head edges after washing with dish detergent. It seemed like exposure to air during drying caused that, perhaps a form of oxidation? That I easily cleaned up with Mother's Mag and Aluminum polish. It also removed the fine scratches and restored the factory sheen to those parts. I had no problems with the cast or bead blast finished parts.

Some have experienced severe discoloration of the aluminum with this method. I gather that they may have had the heat too high where perhaps air bubbles appeared from boiling, or didn't have the parts fully immersed in the solution. I wouldn't let it go a couple weeks, no telling what might happen (unless you have old ruined engine parts as a test case, in case of loss wouldn't matter).

I have found though to mix new solution when solution starts getting dirty, otherwise parts become coated in Castor grime if solution is dirty.
YMMV (you mileage may vary). lol!

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Re: after running cleaning and protection

Post  fredvon4 on Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:37 am

A few years ago I found this site and that took me down a path of engine acquisition; many fouled for decades of neglect and non use.

Here on CEF, or RC Groups, RC universe, Stuka stunt, and a few other forums, I learned the various ways to de-gunk most engines.

I got a E-bay reasonably sized 1 Liter ultrasonic cleaner ($100+/-) and $9.79 Walmart miniature crock pot, and a bunch of different solutions from wally world; including Generic anti freeze, 91% Isopropyl alcohol(pharmacy) 100% denatured alcohol, Acetone, Xylene, MEK, Lacquer thinner (paint section),  and Hoppes #9* (gun section)

I learned by trial and error that immersed/simmered too long**, many of the Aluminum alloys react in different ways to the solvents; from simple (PERMANENT) discoloration to light or severe pitting

Eventually I stopped with the harsh solvents and anti freeze (admittedly only ever used the generic wally world stuff) as they produced the fastest freeing up but usually discolored the aluminum. I now ( thanks Ron Cribbs) exclusively use the alcohols and Hoppes #9 *

For after run and long term preservation/storage I found that ATF*** is good stuff but there is better without the need to know anything about the various ATF*** .

Specifically Air Tool oils ( Thanks Rusty Knowlton) are designed to do exactly what we need; Prevent corrosion from fuel acids and rust from water, and not dry out and gunk up over long term storage. They are also light weight and disperse quickly when starting the engine. At Advance Auto Parts or similar you can find Marvel Air Tool oil, Lowe's has Campbell Hausfeld (CH), Ace Hardware has a version too. All are inexpensive and have a nice close-able tip for dispensing

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/marvel-mystery-oil-air-tool-oil-mm080/7070498-P

* Not all Hoppes products are the same the one that works best is their straight original #9,  Do not use the Black powder or Copper cleaning versions as they both have stronger acids that will pit some aluminum and magnesium alloys or in the case of Cox pistons eat off the copper plated piston top layer!

http://www.hoppes.com/bore-cleaners/no-9-solvent

**What is "too long" has no real data from me but my usual over night "cooking" in anti freeze; or over an hour ultra sonic with alcohol was too long. If you use these methods, I suggest checking often (every hour) and rinse in soap and water as soon as the crank and piston will move enough to safely disassemble the engine

*** Some ATF products are designed to aid in tranny clutch disk grip and have de-varnishing and micro abrasive additives. This is not a big problem but demands that you know what ATF you are using. Other than that caution ATF is an excellent after run and storage lube. You can find several thousand internet posts on various recipes for adding AFT to some mixture of acetone, Hoppes, castor oil, etc. But I think each are silly as the Non Abrasive AFT is just fine out of the can.

BTW I also use a variety of brushes; Gun cleaning bore sized sets, paint sprayer cleaning brushes, tooth brushes, and several sets of the small sized brass, steel, and nylon sets that Harbor Freight sells cheap or give away on special sales

http://www.harborfreight.com/20-piece-spray-gun-cleaning-kit-99634.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-pc-airbrush-cleaning-brushes-68155.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-pc-detail-brush-set-69638.html
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Re: after running cleaning and protection

Post  JasonB on Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:16 pm

Heya fredvon4,

Can you please clarify your statement about ATF's that may include microabrasives? I've searched, but come up empty.

Thanks man!

J
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Re: after running cleaning and protection

Post  GallopingGhostler on Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:24 pm

Good practical advice, fredvon4. I'm finding that one solution doesn't work in all cases, and one picks or choices their poison of choice and learns to moderate it prior to screaming time. Lower heat percolator coffee pot so far has worked out for me.

One good solution for freeing up Castor froze cylinder liners is to put them in boiling water for 5 to 10 minutes. The heat softens congealed Castor and the liners are easy to pull.

I've got tool oil, and that sounds like a practical option for longer term storage lubrication or afterrun oil.

I've picked up a few badly discolored Enyas in otherwise good shape off E-Bay for song. Mother's Mag and Aluminum polish seems to work wonders in cleaning up the discolorations.

Since all my engines are runners and not trophy items, I don't mind if they look better than new out of the manufacturer's box.

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Re: after running cleaning and protection

Post  fredvon4 on Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:23 pm

JasonB

Years ago one of the other forums I was on had a RC guy who was a Oil company chemist for, I think BP but may have been CHEVRON. Anyway he always was commenting in threads about fuel oils...(the old synthetic vs Castor debate that has waged ever since there were model engines).  

I looked up a few of his assertions and found he knew a whole lot more about lubricants than I ever would. Most everything he was saying, in high PHD chemist speak, was true.

His take on it was usually in line with what most of the OLD engine guys were saying, he just added more fact to the usual myth based, or anecdotal discussions...

Basically it all depends on the metallurgy and USE of the engine in question...for some all synthetic is fine, for some all castor is fine, and for many model engines various mixes made sense and were also just fine

One thread got side tracked to After run oils and many posted about their home recipes of ATF with other stuff like Acetone etc....

This guy did a long post about why one should be careful thinking all AFT was good and went on for some time to discuss the chemical properties of friction modifiers, anti wear additives and de-varnish additives. He spent some time explaining how each Oil company has a proprietary schedule of additives to the base oil used in auto transmission and referred us to the different specs like Type F, Type A, Mercon, Mercon V, DEXTRON etc...

There are dozens of ATF choices and some companies even provide recycled versions. His thinking (if I remember correctly) is to stay away for the maxx life, CVT, or any ATF that hyped smoother shifts = high in anti shudder additive

Like you, I went in search and only found info supporting his claim but no real way to tell what brand or type would have the least of these additives

Here is one such bit of information; http://www.lubrizol.com/DrivelineAdditives/AutomaticTransmissionFluidAdditives/Right-Fluid-Matters.html

NOTE- You must work through the "The right fluid matters" charts back and forth a few times and I think you will see that this one company has various additive packages and some are biased to promote friction and anti Shudder (ASD)...Look at the differences in 9680, 9683, and 9684

Hope this makes sense

Quite frankly I decided it was too much trouble and settled on Air tool Oil as my personal rest of life use for these little finger choppers
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