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Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

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Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  NEW222 on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:05 pm

Hi there. I bought a new out of box Norvel engine and was told it is an 049 AME. It turned out to be a Big Mig after looking in the cylinder and seen 5 ports plus exhaust. So, anyways, I was just wondering how to tell a .049 from a .061 size. The following was marked on the side of the engine.

[img][/img]
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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  Ken Cook on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:18 pm

.8 is .049 and 1.0 is .061
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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  NEW222 on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:21 pm

So, .049 AME is now a .061 Big Mig. Well, I guess it was still a good deal at $50 CAD with spare backplate with pressure nipple. As well, for my applications I believe that the Big Mig was the better of the two.
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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  NEW222 on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:35 pm

Forgot to add. I used 2 pairs of calipers, digital and dial, and both got readings of .440 in the cylinder. Just in case this makes any difference.
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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  gcb on Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:57 am

A few tidbits about pre-Revlite NORVEL engines:

My first Big Migs were like the one above except the muffler outlet was straight back and it had a fine brass needle valve. First time I ran one the ink marking the size came off. My solution was to scratch the size on the crankcase with an awl. The second NORVELs I got were like the one above. I got an .049(0.Cool and an .061(1.0).

The Big Mig .061 has more power/ci. than the Big Mig .049. It runs well with an APC 6x2 or 5.7x3 for sport/stunt/RC.

The pre-Revlite engines are ABC (or ABN). When NORVEL went to Revlite on their Big Migs, the AME .049/.061 stayed ABC so that may be why it was listed as an AME.

The early AME's had a larger intake than the later versions and should be run on pressure or with a small prop to maintain adequate fuel draw (venturi velocity). The Big Migs were more tolerant but are a bit over propped with a 6x3. Of course your results may vary.

You may see a little increase in power and fuel economy as the engine breaks-in.

Good luck with yours.

George
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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  andrew on Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:13 am

gcb wrote:
..............
The early AME's had a larger intake than the later versions and should be run on pressure or with a small prop to maintain adequate fuel draw (venturi velocity). The Big Migs were more tolerant but are a bit over propped with a 6x3. Of course your results may vary..............

George


Ditto on all that George posted.

I've not seen these for a long time, but when NORVEL and later, SIG, were the distributors for the engine, you could buy AME C/L venturi's in three diameters depending whether you wanted to run suction or medium to high pressure.

BTW, I think you've scored a good engine at a decent price.  

andrew
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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  NEW222 on Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:28 am

Thank you all again. I do need to go to the city soon to get some props for my small stuff.
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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  gcb on Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:25 am

These pics are my first Big Migs:


 

 

George
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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  Surfer_kris on Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:03 am

That looks like the early, colder, glow plug. They run a little better on the later ones.

Here is a little "Timeline" from left to right, not complete though, there are some more intermediate versions too...

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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  NEW222 on Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:17 pm

Thank you.
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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  fredvon4 on Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:04 pm

Just in case there are new folks looking.... These are some of the best bang for the buck small engines

http://www.nvengines.com/


Most of mine exceed my ability on fast 1/2a combat wings

I have a few Fora and other much higher cost 1/2a engines, but I really like these little buggers as cheap, relatively durable, and wicked fast on modest nitro fuels... Ken Cook manages to break them but he will admit he puts a LOT of vitamin N in his....grin
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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  NEW222 on Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:48 pm

@Surfer_kris - Would you please explain your very fine rear mounted high speed needle setup on the second from the left.  The high speed needle with orange tip that is. Cool
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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  Ken Cook on Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:58 pm

Fred, I didn't have an option actually. I attend several contests through the season and in 4 different states. A few years ago a big changed took place and most moved to ball bearing engines. I just got my gear working like a clock. This essentially was a huge disadvantage for me. I like them a lot and I can get some good rpm's from them. While I myself have moved to the ball bearing engines, they can be a bit tough to get.

The first engine that Kris depicts is a serious little .049. I've hit 28K with that engine and used it exclusively for 5 years. I loved that engine. I had others that looked similar with the exception of the cylinder color. If you look at Kris's engine you can see the cylinder is brass. Wile the others may be brass they're nickel plated. The brass cylinder I believe was a offering from the Stels engine company. It's not exactly ported like the others. In fact mine came in a Stels box but the logo AERO with the backwards E was ground off and the entire case was wire wheeled. It was my favorite .049. I have a few others now new and haven't even run them. I've been using what I have out currently. Ken
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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  Surfer_kris on Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:41 pm

Yes, the engine on the very left is an early Aero (written as A3PO in russian and marked on the case). This is the only true ABC version I have, they later came as AAN I think (seems coated on the outside too).

I don't know their full story, and I only have one of the later ones too (see pictures below). I haven't had the courage to run either of them as I do have enough of the more common Norvel engines to wear out first...

One can clearly see where the later Norvel (Northern Velocity?) engines originates from though Wink



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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  NEW222 on Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:26 pm

That is neat. I like the packaging, as it is different. Were there options such as throttle control / rc versions as well back then?
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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  NEW222 on Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:28 pm

The pictures do not show the top, so I will ask. What type of plugs are used in these older guys. Standard glowplug style, or the insert such as used in mine?
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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  Ken Cook on Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:13 pm

Some of the AME engines came with a standard plug. The plug itself was horrible and worked poorly. I personally feel the same about the current offerings by Mecoa to use standard plugs. You lose to much volume to the cavity of the plug itself and also through the threads of the glow plug. However, I believe you can purchase a Merlin plug now with a Nelson taper to fit which would take what I mentioned out of the equation. I don't use standard plugs in 1/2A engines ever. Some of the Stels engines had their own button type plug. Any Cox plug will work on these engines, the 1702 would be noticeably superior over the standard. Many of the Russian engines aside from Norvel came with no plug with instructions to use the Cox 1702. I use the Galbreath Nelson combination mentioned above. Many of my engines use Nelson plugs so for me this is a plus. If one doesn't want to invest into that, the Merlin offerings work as well. Norvel plugs are still available through Mecoa and also NV engines. You have many options available to you. You need to decide what your going to use the engine for and that would be most helpful to decide how to run it.
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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  Surfer_kris on Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:40 pm

This one has the special insert with a restriction towards the combustion chamber. I guess the combustion chamber will be smoother but one needs a good fitting glow-plug length too. Some say that these work better than just having a regular plug hole and thread straight through, but I have never made any direct comparisons. I just put away these types of heads, as there is too much power loss...

The clamp would need some rework though, as it stands a little too high and will hit the the glow plug gasket I think.







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Re: Physical Differences Between Norvel .049 and .061

Post  gcb on Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:44 pm

I bought mine from Carlson Engine Imports as the AME Zeus years ago. It was designed for combat and has no muffler provisions. Note the optional venture insert. Sorry about the quality of the pictures.

George





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