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Flight report - The closing day of "What I did this Summer" - Part 1

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Flight report - The closing day of "What I did this Summer" - Part 1

Post  RknRusty on Thu Jun 04 2015, 23:12

Following the fuselage reinforcement I documented early this week in my Huntersville thread, I was preflighting it last night in hopes the weather would be nice today. Rain was threatening and we've been getting a couple or three inches in the evenings this week.

Funny how that needle setting changed on Saturday before that last flight. i gave it a quick field pressure check and it seemed alright. But before I sealed it up I did a more thorough check, and sure enough it was blowing air through the pressure line. I'd used blue silicon 1/2A tube for that section because it was a tight fit behind the engine and I wanted to prevent rubbing. It had lasted since I first flew the plane in April. In fact it's the same tube that I had fail on the Ukey 2 weeks ago, and that was a simple 3/4" deadhead cap on the OF vent. Evidently the prop blast stressed it enough that it split twice in the same day. Now that's weak. I don't know what brand it is but I get it at my LHS. No more.

So I re-plumbed it with thick tube and it once again held pressure. Wayne took a detour in Pennsylvania on vacation, stopped at Brodak and got me 4' of their reddish silicon line, some really tough stuff, and grippy too. It's the only thing that will stay put on an engine nipple on a wet misty day. Unfortunately I didn't get it in my possesion till we met at the field today. But I'm going to order some Tom Morris external copper vent sets that allow access outside the cowl, and rig up a more professional venting system. I'll get one for the Nobler too, since it already has the holes cut to accept it.

So anyway, on with the report:
I was a little worried about my baby, the cowl no longer fits quite right after Saturday's tarmac dart game. I could find no evidence of loosened or cracked beams, but the crooked cowl fitment was caused by something. It's so slight than no one but me would see it, but it was just itching my brain, and I needed to prove the plane was all in tact. It looks a little like it has down thrust, but it doesn't. Like I said, I needed proof. So we met up at Fort Jackson on a misty morning. We sat under the parking shed for 2 hours talking. Luckily, we're both conversationalists and can entertain ourselves, if not each other. Finally a sunbeam, the mist was burning off, and we rigged up. Wayne's mission was to flight trim his new Intermediate Death Star, the IDS. My mission was to prove the big yeller Oreo would still go where I point it.

First up, Big Bird. Three choke flips, a few aeration flips, hit it with the electric finger and braaam, she lit off quickly. Set the needle a little leaner than that infamous Saturday flight and launched at 11.1K. Nice, still turning on and off on schedule like a piped PA. It really does. If you haven't noticed the engine run, check that Saturday video again. I keep watching it just to marvel at the leap in piloting I've taken in one month. This is an engine that the self proclaimed experts swear won't run a 2-4-2. And I'm not just forcing it, this is a true happy engine setup. Thanks Ken Cook and Dennis Moritz.

So I'm flying my warmup flight and everything is identical to it's pre-dart fashion, what a relief. At the 300 RPM higher setting, it was right at 5 second laps and I was able to do my newly accomplished low bottoms and mostly not bounce the fast 90 and 120 deg. pullouts. But I still had the wind loosen my lines on the V8's first top loop, causing me to have to steal some air and walk it to the right, and the second top loop was better. Next, the Hourglass was not terribly authoritative in turns 2 and 3 at the top, and then the OH8s were somewhat blown out of the groove. I'm also improving those, finally. Last but not least, in the two laps prior to the clover leaf it shut off. So it appears that in warmer weather than April, I have to tune it somewhat ratty to get a full run. Bob Z., one of the more colorful judges at the Bob Shaw(Joe Nall) contest jokingly said, "Damn, Rusty, can't you fly a little faster!" They hardly had time to write their scores before my next stunt Lol.

On flight #2 I launched at 11.5K to see if I could get a full run. It was still happy, breaking right on schedule, flying 4.7 second laps. This setup has a pleasingly broad band in which it will run a dependable 2-4-2. That means I can speed it up or slow it down to meet weather demands and it still cuts in and out right on schedule. So continuing on with flight 2, after turn 1 of the clover, waaaAAAP... crickets Rolling Eyes  . I'll sure be glad when Wayne gets back from Brodak with my 5 oz tank. That's all she needs. Some folks talk about smaller venturis, and others lower nitro, and so on. But common sense tells me I have a prefect setup. No need to do anything that diverges from my perfect engine performance, except to give it what it wants... more fuel. Luckily there's more than enough room for an identical tank, just an inch longer.

Now lets talk about flight 3. I decided to skip 4 of the 6 inverted laps and skip a couple of the 2 laps between stunts. Same setting, 11.5K. Yay, made it through the pattern. Of course since i flew my clover for the first time, it was the ugliest one ever, but I got a few laps after and made my usual bouncy landing.

We started talking about the looseness in my overheads and how easily I get blown off the rails up top. And the wingovers are usually pretty soft too except when I have it running rat race lean. So for the first time since I've been flying the Oriental, I adjusted the leadouts. I've been noticing that I can't see the outboard wheel at all. It's completely eclipsed by the inboard wheel... meaning no yaw out. I moved both leadout wires 1/4" aft and fueled her up again.

No pattern this time, just whatever stunts I could fly in my comfort zone, so several Wingovers, Square 8s(sometimes get loose on the top turns), Triangles, hourglass and about 3 sets of OH8s. It was yet another new improved plane. Boy it pulled. Made every turn with solid authority, no more soft corners. What an amazing difference. I'm a happy boy. That was the last flight of season 2015 part one. Now a couple of weeks of surf fishing, forgetting about the house, and pushing thoughts of planes into the background with the satisfaction that I have flown well in two contests, flew even better fun flying in the past two weeks, and knowing that when I get back I have a competent contest plane and even a great backup Nobler. And still have a couple of great profiles waiting for me too. That's a feeling I like to have, no worries, just crabs and fish, a fish fry near the end of each beach week, and lotsa hot leg to watch on the beach... admittedly now trying to accept the fact that none of them would likely have me in my geezer state of appearance, but what the hell. Such is life, and life is good.

Zat a long enough story for y'all? Hope I didn't Z anyone out before the end.
Here are some pics of Wayne flying the IDS. He flew the Oreo today once too, first time I've passed him the handle of this one.



This one flies on an LA46 with a chicken hopper. Nice stiff profile plane that turns on a dime. Good solid plane he designed here. I made the Fonts and picture of the exploding Death Star on the Wing.


...........................................................The End

Next flight report... possibly June 30. Or whenever the weather permits after that. Maybe maybe July 4th.
See y'all i the funny pages.
Rusty


Last edited by RknRusty on Sat Jun 06 2015, 10:12; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Flight report - The closing day of "What I did this Summer" - Part 1

Post  Theo Kleynhans on Fri Jun 05 2015, 00:58

Great report Rusty. I am truly glad your Oriental is back together and flying great.

Yes it sounds like your engine is running perfect. Just the bigger tank and you are sorted.

Enjoy your holiday.

Theo
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Re: Flight report - The closing day of "What I did this Summer" - Part 1

Post  stuntflyr on Fri Jun 05 2015, 02:17

I'd have added more tip weight, Rusty. If you're turning 11.1 and it's flying faster than 5.0 I'd make the lines two feet longer. You'll have more fuel capacity with your new tank, and you'll fly the model faster at a slower lap time. Sounds like it'll carry the lines and tip weight easily and that'll tighten up the lines on top for your above 45 degree stuff. You might end up moving the leadouts forward again.
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Re: Flight report - The closing day of "What I did this Summer" - Part 1

Post  RknRusty on Fri Jun 05 2015, 10:35

stuntflyr wrote:I'd have added more tip weight, Rusty. If you're turning 11.1 and it's flying faster than 5.0 I'd make the lines two feet longer. You'll have more fuel capacity with your new tank, and you'll fly the model faster at a slower lap time. Sounds like it'll carry the lines and tip weight easily and that'll tighten up the lines on top for your above 45 degree stuff. You might end up moving the leadouts forward again.
You're saying you'd have added tip weight to account for the weight of the longer lines? Because as it is, wings are dead level up and down with my current line set. 61' from eye to eye.

Anyway, that's a good point, if the engine is in its sweet spot, longer lines would possibly allow me to turn it up on a windy day and still be in my comfort zone of lap speed.
Thanks for the tip.
Rusty

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Re: Flight report - The closing day of "What I did this Summer" - Part 1

Post  stuntflyr on Fri Jun 05 2015, 14:05

I should've been more clear, sorry Rusty.

In the first trim change, I would've left the leadouts where they were because the trim of the model sounds pretty close if you're able to get as far through the pattern as you can with the model so streamlined to the circle. In other words, the model flying with as little outward yaw to keep line tension by your description of seeing only one wheel.

To keep the tension on top, above 45 degrees, I'd have only added tip weight. This doesn't have to do with the wing up or down, that is usually a flap hanging or a warp. It has to do with the weight at the end of the lines in a dynamic motion keeping the lines tight during G loaded maneuvers while flying in a tangential arc in tethered flight. You have a minimal amount of tip weight in there now, it seems from your description. Adding that weight and leaving the leadouts where they were would trim the model most efficiently for that description of "light on the top, streamlined path through the air apparent by wheels inflight"

Now as for my linelength suggestion; After adding line length to slow the laps times, and get you more time through the maneuver, etc, it's possible an additional amount of tip weight should be added to compensate for the added line drag. Not always, though. But defintely add some for your model being light on top (of the circle).

Since you've already moved the leadouts, my suggestion is to make a new set of lines two feet longer, add some tip weight and see how it does after five flights with your motor whipped up in the 11,100 range or so. If it's got good line tension on top and added some time to your maneuvers and lap times, you're going the right direction. If it's still light on top, add more tip weight again. If that doesn't help, ease the leadouts forward towards the place you have them originally.

The drag of rudder offset and rearward leadout position leads to excessive drag above 45 degrees causing a LOSS of line tension. People often mistake the nose pointing out for a good thing for line tension when it is actually a balance between tip weight and leadout position to keep the model aligned down the control lines for best line tension overall.

Hope this helps, good fishing!

Chris...
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Re: Flight report - The closing day of "What I did this Summer" - Part 1

Post  RknRusty on Fri Jun 05 2015, 17:01

Okay Chris, now I got ya. I didn't know that. I'll add this info to things I've learned about flight trimming.

Also, regarding yaw, I didn't mention that after moving the leadouts I can now see the OB wheel peeking out behind the IB wheel. I have no rudder offset, and if there is any engine offset it's only what I can get by holding it with a twist(slight, if any) when I tighten the bolts. Other than that, it's built with pretty much zero incidence(correct term?) on all the surfaces, rudder, stab, and wing.
Rusty

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Re: Flight report - The closing day of "What I did this Summer" - Part 1

Post  dckrsn on Fri Jun 05 2015, 20:52

Have a good one Rusty.
Don't forget to spit on the bait for good luck, and
remember the sun screen.
Bob Sad Goodbye
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Re: Flight report - The closing day of "What I did this Summer" - Part 1

Post  RknRusty on Fri Jun 05 2015, 21:50

Thanks Bob. I finally oiled engines in the planes I've flown lately, hung them up and got my fishing rods out. The big Ugly Stik needs some work. Here in its 35th Summer the largest of the eyes has developed a tiny gap that the line can catch on and possibly go through, so I need to figure out how to join it and smooth it. If I can't, I'll wrap a new eye on, but I'd rather not this time.

Here are some of my beach reports from recent years.
https://www.coxengineforum.com/t2808-gone-fishin-i-m-back

Rusty

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Re: Flight report - The closing day of "What I did this Summer" - Part 1

Post  stuntflyr on Tue Jun 09 2015, 00:37

I checked your old fishing threads and saw that you've been at Stunt for at least a couple of years. Looking good, stick with that Oriental as long as it's flying well for you and see how well you can optimize flying that one model, trimming it through the season, and try to find an Expert to practice with because we all have got something to say about the other guys flying! If you really stick with one ship, it usually helps at the Intermediate going to Advanced point a lot. I did the same when I went from Advanced ( I started there, stayed two seasons) to Expert and even though my model had some trim issues I learned to fly it as well as it could be flown using trimming techniques from top Experts, and got coaching from those top guys too. That combo makes for a large improvement.

Wish I was headed out there where you're going. Looks beautiful. Although I can't complain, I live at the beach (Will Rogers Beach where Pacific Palisades shore turns west along the Malibu shore) and my folks live in Huntington Beach where I grew up. We plan on a offshore fishing weekend on a buddies sport fisher this summer, when the Mexican hurricanes and tropical storms move the swell our way the medium size tuna run and they're just tasty right out of the Pacific. Of course my wife says those big fish have mercury, but I can't taste it!

Chris...

RknRusty wrote:Okay Chris, now I got ya. I didn't know that. I'll add this info to things I've learned about flight trimming.

Also, regarding yaw, I didn't mention that after moving the leadouts I can now see the OB wheel peeking out behind the IB wheel. I have no rudder offset, and if there is any engine offset it's only what I can get by holding it with a twist(slight, if any) when I tighten the bolts. Other than that, it's built with pretty much zero incidence(correct term?) on all the surfaces, rudder, stab, and wing.
Rusty
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Re: Flight report - The closing day of "What I did this Summer" - Part 1

Post  getback on Tue Jun 09 2015, 09:17

Hot Boy I waited too long to read this one and I am a slow reader Paranoid GOOD report Rusty , A lot of stuff to remember in there if I ever get time or off my butt to do some fling ! almost got the B-clown done and BRM waiting a Maiden ! With the rain we got , Garden working me or I should say weeds . You guys at the coast or at least closer than 3.5 hrs. have it going on Legs and Crabs Eyebrows Thanks again .Flying
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Re: Flight report - The closing day of "What I did this Summer" - Part 1

Post  RknRusty on Tue Jun 09 2015, 11:36

stuntflyr wrote:I checked your old fishing threads and saw that you've been at Stunt for at least a couple of years. Looking good, stick with that Oriental as long as it's flying well for you and see how well you can optimize flying that one model, trimming it through the season, and try to find an Expert to practice with because we all have got something to say about the other guys flying! If you really stick with one ship, it usually helps at the Intermediate going to Advanced point a lot. I did the same when I went from Advanced ( I started there, stayed two seasons) to Expert and even though my model had some trim issues I learned to fly it as well as it could be flown using trimming techniques from top Experts, and got coaching from those top guys too. That combo makes for a large improvement.
That's right Chris, it was just around this week in 2013 that I first tried flying the beginner pattern.

Here's a recap of my stunt career:
I'd never seen anyone fly it before and had only recently learned that PA existed. I guess I knew people competed somewhere somehow. One of my mentors on RCG, Jim Thomerson used to mention it. I had joined a local RC club the previous August when I started clipping oak branches in the neighborhood churchyard, and they let me fly CL there.

That's where I met my mentor, Wayne. He knew the pattern and was also judging the advanced circles in Huntersville, so he got me started. He's also a full scale pilot, glider pilot, and an FAA accident investigator(Ret.), so he brought an understanding of air ships that I did not previously have. A couple of months earlier I finished rebuilding a wrecked Shoestring I was given and was now playing with it. But I had only flown 1/2A before, so I brought all those flying habits to the bigger plane, probably traumatizing the poor thing.

It had an over powered ball bearing Thunder Tiger Pro 25 on it that would cut off at the top of every loop(it only needed a smaller venturi). At first, after being the master of screaming bladder-fed 1/2As blasting through the sky, When I saw Wayne, a new but very good Intermediate, fly a beginner pattern, I was like, I got this. You gotta be kidding, that's all y'all do? I fought with it all Summer, trying to fly loops the size of beach balls and squares the size of shipping boxes. Had no idea where 45 degrees was and sorely underestimated where 90 actually was. And the engine still burped at every turn. The week before Huntersville in October 2013, I completed my first beginner pattern, and won 3rd out of 4 entrants with a 233.

Ray Copeland, a member of the club up there, gave me an old beat up skyray with a 35fp that I flew for Beginner 1st the following May, 2014. That Skyray was a comparative dreamboat to fly. The SS is now a beautiful fun flyer and I take it out now and then. Cribbs flew it when he came to visit. That October I flew a decent(for me) full pattern for 417.5 in Profile with my new Osprey, a Skyray bashed to look like a Streak. I took third the next day in PAMPA stunt, being edged out by the better pilots, Sean(Shug) Emery and Dennis Lipsett. But again, only having completed my first full pattern a few weeks before the contest.

This May I was much better prepared in every way and flying the Oriental. I flew the Ukey in Profile that Saturday. On Sunday I took second with a 457, only squeezed out by my own mentor, Wayne, with a 465.5. Two weeks later at the new contest at Triple Tree at the end of Joe nall week I flew lean and mean to a bouncy 444, which you've probably seen on the Tube. Unfortunately my H'ville flights were only caught on a fisheye GoPro and everything looks round.

So another prosaic posting, but an adequate nutshell in case I forget what I've done. And since the contests this May, I have flown even better. And I no longer feel frustrated that I've hit a wall, and may one day actually improve enough to move up to advanced.
Rusty

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