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F2G for .15 carrier

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F2G for .15 carrier

Post  JPvelo on Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:49 am

A little shot of what I've been working on, power will be a magnum .15:
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  duke.johnson on Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:30 am

Put a Cox Conquest in it! It'll go faster.
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  JPvelo on Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:51 pm

duke.johnson wrote:Put a Cox Conquest in it! It'll go faster.

Believe me, if I could spend money that fast it would have a conquest!

Jim
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  stuntflyr on Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:07 pm

Do Conquests idle and throttle well?

Cool model, I love F2Gs. There is one at Stellar Air Park, Cook Cleland's Heinz 57 racer. What a ship.
Chris...
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  duke.johnson on Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:59 pm

I'd imagine the Conquest is the best chose for .15 carrier. Mine was great with a perry carb. My favorite carrier plane in a corsiar with an OS .40FP, for a local carrier contest. I'm building a Mustang for a replacement.
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  JPvelo on Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:08 pm

stuntflyr wrote:Do Conquests idle and throttle well?

Cool model, I love F2Gs. There is one at Stellar Air Park, Cook Cleland's Heinz 57 racer. What a ship.
Chris...

Chris,

This is my first carrier model so I'm no expert, but it's my understanding that a Nelson or a conquest are the engines you want.

Jim
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  roddie on Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:42 pm

Jim, What type of set-up are you using for the assumed servo-driven throttle? I believe that the 3-line bell-cranks haven't been widely used for some time now. Does someone produce a custom single-channel system, specific to this application? Having a combination handle-unit with a trigger would be cool.
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  JPvelo on Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:57 pm

Roddie,

Going old school three line. I think it's still pretty common in carrier.

Jim
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  roddie on Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:53 pm

JPvelo wrote:Roddie,

Going old school three line. I think it's still pretty common in carrier.

Jim

Very cool Jim! I misplaced my 3-line bellcrank.. but have the J. Roberts Flight Control Handle NIB.



I know I have the "plane-unit" somewhere. Carrier is an event that's fascinated me since I saw it for the first time at the 92 AMA Nats in Chicoppee, MA.
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  getback on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:53 am

Looking good Jim, that should bee a lot of FUN and I think you will have your hands full or I no I would just to keep from the ground pounding . I was looking for some videos of the event , I have seen it done before but wanted to see it again , anyway found this http://brodak.com/carrier_flying First time I have seen this and is some good stuff there . Very Happy When is your event happening ?
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  JPvelo on Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:49 am

Eric,

They're are contest in Tucson in September and January, Phoenix has a contest  in October.

Check this out:

http://youtu.be/sC96_QWJfJI

Jim
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  roddie on Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:02 pm

Notice the outward yaw angle of these models. This Vid is a good account of what a typical carrier flight consists of. Check out the lead-out rake on the 2nd airplane doing it's slow passes.. (clearly visible from 5:58 on the counter)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuurRZCl8rk



EDIT: It looks to me, like the 2nd model's lead-out guide is an angled rail, allowing the lead-outs to rake-back with a nose-high attitude.
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  RknRusty on Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:38 pm


Looks like Roddie slipped one in during my picture searching.
Thanks for those links. I copied the Brodak one for reference. My wife loves to watch carrier at the contests, she divides her time between Carrier and Combat, which are next to each other at Huntersville.

The Carrier planes must be incredibly well built, with meticulous attention to detail, or they will fail to perform, needless to say, repetitively. The control systems are fascinating. Did you know they have a way to   disconnect the leadout guide from the wing during the slow approach so it prop hangs straight from the bellcrank to the handle? There are lots of things I have yet to learn about them. It's apparently a fun relaxing sport.

And when they decide where to place the deck, every one just has to hope the wind is blowing in a good direction when it's their turn. Ours is flat on the ground instead of on the buckets like in the video. I have some pictures of Carrier from October 2013 at Huntersville. I thought I had video too, bit it's hiding

Here's Sarah Davis and David Smith, now Sarah and David Smith... and Wesley Smith too:
David uses the angle to measure Sara's angle while slow hanging, and she must stay within specified angles.


Here are Jo and Everett Shoemaker. I'm not sure if that's a signal by Jo or not, but they do have to give a landing signal. If they Bolter, they can go around again, losing points, I presume:

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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  RknRusty on Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:28 pm

roddie wrote:Notice the outward yaw angle of these models. This Vid is a good account of what a typical carrier flight consists of. Check out the lead-out rake on the 2nd airplane doing it's slow passes.. (clearly visible from 5:58 on the counter)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuurRZCl8rk

EDIT: It looks to me, like the 2nd model's lead-out guide is an angled rail, allowing the lead-outs to rake-back with a nose-high attitude.
That does not look easy to do. When they drop the hook, I think the leadout guide disconnects completely. It just slides out of the way letting the plane hang directly from the bellcrank... I think.
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  getback on Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:59 am

That does look like a lot of fun for sure the UK do it up with the strip and back ground appearance , I think that is really neat and puts things in prospection. By the time I got back to the forum I had seen the guy Roddie was talking about fly , man that thing was hauling it at first Shocked Where do you get those throttle control handles ?
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  roddie on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:15 am

getback wrote:That does look like a lot of fun for sure the UK do it up with the strip and back ground appearance , I think that is really neat and puts things in prospection. By the time I got back to the forum I had seen the guy Roddie was talking about fly , man that thing was hauling it at first Shocked  Where do you get those throttle control handles ?  

Unless rules have changed.. I believe that competition requires an elevated deck to land on. It should IMHO. Yea.. these models are mechanical marvels. They're at their ragged edges of speed vs. stall. I can't begin to imagine the trimming involved.

The handles are more common than I thought. Perhaps they're being made again?

Yup..

http://brodak.com/control-line-parts/handles/c-19-yellow-handle.html

http://brodak.com/control-line-parts/throttle-control-kit/b25-3-line-hardware-package.html

Both fliers in the Detroit 2013 vid I posted, are using this style handle. Brodak's looks to be an exact J. Roberts copy. Maybe I'm "cheap".. but Brodak's complete set-up is expensive. Another $100 bucks.. oh well. The bell-crank unit is the must-have. How hard could it be to replicate the handle's function in a homemade one?

Jim, are you using a similar bellcrank to this one?

Brodak bell crank
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  JPvelo on Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:53 pm

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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  roddie on Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:47 pm

JPvelo wrote:Roddie,

Yes, I'll be using this one:
http://brodak.com/control-line-parts/bellcranks/brodak-c-22-2.html

It would seem that the fuse-slot above the wing accommodates the bellcrank mount/position.. and an outboard elevator linkage?

Are you scratch-building from plans? I love the lines.. kinda' reminds me of a bigger version of your reed-speed model!

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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  JPvelo on Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:31 am

roddie wrote:
JPvelo wrote:Roddie,

Yes, I'll be using this one:
http://brodak.com/control-line-parts/bellcranks/brodak-c-22-2.html

It would seem that the fuse-slot above the wing accommodates the bellcrank mount/position.. and an outboard elevator  linkage?

Are you scratch-building from plans? I love the lines.. kinda' reminds me of a bigger version of your reed-speed model!


Roddie,

The elevator pushrod will be inboard, as will be the hook and release. The release will operate off of the pushrod or the elevator horn. I'm not sure yet as this is being designed and engineered on the fly.

I'm scratch building from three view drawings and borrowing the airfoil section and some fuselage construction techniques from this plan:

http://carrier-deck.com/wp-content/uploads/Bf109T_Conley_Bf109T_15size_100pctv2_70cmSpan.jpg

I'm using the wing construction technique outlined in this plan:

http://carrier-deck.com/wp-content/uploads/F2G1_Conley_40size_100pct_102cmSpan.pdf

Tomorrow I can post a photo of the three views I'm using if your interested.

Jim
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  Theo Kleynhans on Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:27 am

That plane of yours is looking great Jim.

That is a beautiful build. You always build beautiful planes.

Cant wait to see it progress.

Theo
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  roddie on Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:25 am

JPvelo wrote:

Roddie,

The elevator pushrod will be inboard, as will be the hook and release. The release will operate off of the pushrod or the elevator horn. I'm not sure yet as this is being designed and engineered on the fly.

I'm scratch building from three view drawings and borrowing the airfoil section and some fuselage construction techniques from this plan:

http://carrier-deck.com/wp-content/uploads/Bf109T_Conley_Bf109T_15size_100pctv2_70cmSpan.jpg

I'm using the wing construction technique outlined in this plan:

http://carrier-deck.com/wp-content/uploads/F2G1_Conley_40size_100pct_102cmSpan.pdf

Tomorrow I can post a photo of the three views I'm using if your interested.

Jim

Thanks Jim, yes I'd like to see the 3-view if you get a chance. These models are extremely interesting to me.
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  JPvelo on Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:54 pm

Roddie,

Here's what passes for a plan at my house. Apparently I threw out the wing pattern when I thought I was done with it. Stupid. I'm not happy with the wing tips and now I have no pattern for new ones.

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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  roddie on Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:32 pm

I wouldn't sweat it. What's wrong with the wing-tips you made? Did you change the design to accommodate the lead-out guide possibly? I'll bet you've got new ones built already.. or at least drawn-out. Cool
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  JPvelo on Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:15 am

roddie wrote:I wouldn't sweat it. What's wrong with the wing-tips you made? Did you change the design to accommodate the lead-out guide possibly? I'll bet you've got new ones built already.. or at least drawn-out. Cool

They are way to flimsy with the grain running chord wise. I am planning on two piece tips with the grain butted together at 45. I don't know if that's a good description, I'll post a photo when I do it.

Jim
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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

Post  JPvelo on Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:46 pm

Here's how I went with wing tips. They are 1/8 hard balsa. I will cap them 1/4 soft balsa from just behind the high point of the wing forward. I want to avoid "starburst of formers" wingtip look.

Jim

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Re: F2G for .15 carrier

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