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Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

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Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  PlaidHatter on Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:38 am

Hey there, I'm the newb needing some .049 engine model identification help.
I found this little guy in my storage (not positive where it came from) and after searching I've learned a lot about these amazing little engines in the past several hours which before I never even knew existed.
I've searched Wiki, which I've found had very extensive and detailed model specific identification info, but I didn't come across somethin that matched this little guy, so I'm assuming maybe it's modified by the previous owner, or being hopeful here, maybe I've found something rare, (I did say I was being hopeful).
All I know so far is that it's a .049 Cox motor, it seems to be in very good condition, moving freely, and I don't think it's crazy old or anything.
I was going to upload a good picture or two of it, but just realized I don't see how I'm supposed to upload a picture while on my mobile.
So here it goes, it's got a black anodized aluminum 8cc stunt tank on it (one tube sticking out the top and one sticking out the bottom, no other holes or ports) and a metal back plate, gold/brass in color, with a screen in the breather port. A gold anodized bar stock style crankcase with no carb or anything, silver aluminum spinner and black drive plate, black cylinder with single large exhaust port, and what looks like the basic silver three-fin glow plug head.
My plan is to get it runnin well, mount it on a custom stand, buy a few upgrades like throttle or 5-fin head and keep it in a display case.
I'm going to need everything though, including glow plug battery packs, fuel, and lots of knowledge!
Thanks in advance for your help guys!
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  Balsa to Foam on Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:03 am

you have a 1972 golden bee based on your description. click the bees and scroll down here for some pics
http://coxengines.ca/cox/www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/cox_frameset.htm

OH and welcome to the Party cheers cheers
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  TopBannana on Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:12 am

To me it sounds like a golden bee with a different cyl., but one exhaust port sounds weird the only one is a cox mkII special .15 with one exhaust port that I know of. Huh...

(this is an estimate i am not totally sure)

Welcome to the forum!   Beer Cheers  Hand Shake

Im Trevor (TopBannana)
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  getback on Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:31 am

That sound right , the 5 fin head is mainly for Texaco engines but can bee used on this but , reduces the power ....    this one      Manufactured in ca. 1962 (top), 1970 (center), 1972 (bottom) (#120)

This engine is basically a Babe Bee engine with cross flow vents in the enlarged tank. The larger tank made this engine attractive for R/C applications. The cylinders have one bypass port, a later version came with a throttle ring (#120-1) and had 2 bypass ports. Due to the longer tank, the Golden Bee has a slightly larger Venturi diameter (4.37 versus 3.57 mm) at the reed valve.

It was planned to manufacture the engine with a gold anodized tank and crankcase, but some runs of these engines have also been delivered with a black tank and others with a plain anodized crankcase and propeller drive plate (like the early sample shown on top). It depended on what parts were available, as anodizing was subcontracted and not done at Cox.

Engines with the vented back plate also occur, but I am not sure whether these are mutations created by keen modelers or whether they left Santa Ana in this configuration.



The engine was later replaced by the similar Black Widow (see below). And WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!!


Eric Small Cox Logo
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  PlaidHatter on Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:37 pm



Let's see if that picture works. I'm not entirely sure how to load pictures on the forum from my phone, they layout is different from other forums I've been on.

Thanks for the informative feedback guys!

To clarify Trevor, what I mean is the cylinder I have does not have a split port, so there's still a port on each side, totaling two larger ports instead of four slits.

Eric, I'm seeing two pictures in your post, and mine looks a lot like the second one, with the black tank and yellowish crankcase, only difference I see is the back plate on mine is the same brass color as the solid orangeish/bronze one you pictured.
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  PlaidHatter on Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:40 pm

Did my picture really just post upside down?!?! lol!
Well at least you all can see it now. Haha that's too funny.
Sorry if I made your necks hurt. Lol.
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  PlaidHatter on Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:49 pm

So my next questions are, what all do I need to get this baby to run?
My plans today are to make a plexiglass stand to mount the engine to, and make a starter battery pack for 3 D batteries with parts from Radio Shack and then maybe source some fuel.
bounce I can't wait to hear this thing start!!! bounce
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  Marleysky on Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:43 pm

PlaidHatter wrote:So my next questions are, what all do I need to get this baby to run?
My plans today are to make a plexiglass stand to mount the engine to, and make a starter battery pack for 3 D batteries with parts from Radio Shack and then maybe source some fuel.
bounce  I can't wait to hear this thing start!!! bounce

Yahoo! I can't wait either.  Caution- WArning - Caution!  Plexiglass may not be a proper material for the engine stand. These engines do vibrate a lot when in operation. It may be great for a display mount, but I would not recommend it for a test stand. For engines with built in tanks a quick and cheap mount would be a short piece of 2x4 held vertically in a vice with the motor screwed into the face of the board ( not the end grain ) mount the engine towards the top of the board so you can easily access the needle valve from behind the engine.   Also make sure with your battery pack you do not exceed 1 1/2 volts (1.5 volt) or you'll burn out the glow plug.  Have fun, good luck and send us more pictures!!
Ps you'll also need a glow plug clip to attach the battery to the glow plug.
Pss: you will also need the "special" nitromethane / castor oil blend for Cox engines these require a mixture of at least 20% oil, with half of that being castor oil.  You can obtain the correct blend on line at Hobbico,  glowplugboy fuels or maybe a nearby hobby shop?
Psss: you'll need finger protection from having the prop smacking you as you flip it to start!  
I am sure I've forgotten something,  anyone else with sage advise for the newbie?

Search around this site and you'll find...oh here it is. Starting instructions:
https://9824b54b-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/coxenginecollection/instructionpapers/GoldenBee.049instruction.pdf?attachauth=ANoY7cpID20aTor-Cn25F6jEFjHrHE4zxMWaqxHWwkF8Z102BFfjJjRc8ScumS948Hk5QNr2B9hEzzWg9rDw7w3JZ_ByWxc2qlZ754_egbbnxfNes12AQTfO2NS5o6Up6ZBPe_CzUw9fxzfgTZJDE3cwIsDtnpTzKaZYSZo5gDbv--hXOqG2ycd5z0iFNjUVsYN5aQk8FmvSXJ9yE_UPHZf84z-y5scDf_qC3kVdUuYJWtNpri_TWC3bPTpqM8vGjYaOg2DO-9UzwWnXrMIs-bggwRCgqKxgJg%3D%3D&attredirects=0

Geez what a linc!


Last edited by Marleysky on Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:05 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : More advice)
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  TDbandit on Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:57 pm

Hi plaidHatter welcome to the forum!!
Marleysky hit the nail on the head with his advice, plexiglass is not a good material to use for a test stand it won't hold up to the vibration. Cox international sells a nice test stand for these little engines and you can also use a 2x4 clamped in a vice or bolted down to a bench but what ever you do do not clamp the engine in a vice, not only will it potentially destroy your engine but it can come loose and hurt ya.
And about the starting battery, all you need is 2 D batteries in parallel +to+ -to - again cox international sells a nice battery box with clip hope this helps (Bandit)
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  getback on Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:17 pm

PlaidHatter wrote:So my next questions are, what all do I need to get this baby to run?
My plans today are to make a plexiglass stand to mount the engine to, and make a starter battery pack for 3 D batteries with parts from Radio Shack and then maybe source some fuel.
bounce  I can't wait to hear this thing start!!! bounce
Cool ( I cant believe you broke the code here and put pics on before your time period was up Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy  ss tuff I foregot what wee were talking about Embarassed O yeah looks good should make a good runner // 2 D cells should do it running in sequence Amps 2.5-3.33
1.5 volts Good Nitro fuel for your prize A 5x3 prop would work for that Animal // and wee can go from there  Fuel ...  http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.exe/IndexEnginesF.html?E+Sig And there are other options ...Eric
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  NEW222 on Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:09 pm

Beautiful looking engine you got there. Yep, Golden Bee. I will also second the 2 x 4 idea. I just ran mine in the garage about an hour ago. I have a wooden top work bench and I just screwed a 2 x 4 to the top and used screws to hold it as high as it would go. But just watch and make sure the screws stay tight. Mine vibrate out slightly after a few runs, so I just make sure they are secure. And please watch your digits...
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  Cribbs74 on Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:12 pm

Randy,

All good advice from other members.

Don't be surprised if that engine doesn't spring to life. More often than not Castor oil will have congealed inside the tank and pickup.

Do you have the correct tools to disassemble the engine?

Removing the tank is easy enough. You will need specialized tools to go further though.

Ron
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  David S on Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:17 pm

Nice golden bee! I have 2 .049 golden bee's.They are nice runners and mine are the gold finish on the tank also.

David S
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  dckrsn on Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:11 pm

Welcome again Randy. Quite a beaut you have there.
I wonder if she's ever even seen fuel. As per Ron's
post, you might want to open her up, and take a peek.

Oops, I mean it's junk! I'll give you 5 bucks for it. tongue

No, really, nice mill.
Bob
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  PlaidHatter on Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:49 pm

Haha I guess I should check in on this thread more often.
Seems like everyone is against the plexi huh? The plexiglass I was planning on using is a beefy 1/2" thick plexiglass with through holes and lock nuts to keep it bolted snug, but if you guys think this still won't suffice then you guys obviously have more experience with these engines than me, and I'll take your advice.
I also already have in my online shopping cart, and will be purchasing before the end of the night,(if I can get the site to accept my card) a foot of silicone fuel line, a small simple grey prop (I didn't want a massive blade to worry about), one of the stainless steel 049 engine tools, and a no drag snap starter spring. Sound good so far? Wink
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  PlaidHatter on Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:57 pm

So if I were to open it up and take a peek, what exactly would I be looking for?
I'm pretty mechanically inclined, but have no experience with these engines, so is there protocol or procedure when separating these parts in order to ensure a successful reassembly?
Do I need new gaskets every time I separate parts?
What tools will I need other than the stainless 049/051 wrench?
I would REALLY like to incorporate a throttle in the near future, but not immediately, is there a way to do this while still retaining my current fuel tank?

Thanks again for letting me pick your brains for info, it's much appreciated. Hats Off
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  PlaidHatter on Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:17 pm

So I did it! I opened her up and took a peek. WAY more simplistic inside than I expected, and everything looks super clean, (to the point where it actually may have never been ran) I'm feeling really good about this. So I definitely want to take good care of this from the start and I heard proper fuel mixture is key.
Here I even snapped a pic of the spotless interior for your observation. . .

Maybe this picture won't be downside up. Lol
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  TDbandit on Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:45 am

Wow if it has seen any fuel it hadn't seen much! Even the screw threds are clean inside of the backplate is pristeen too along with the pickup tube BTW don't loose that little spring in the pickup tube it helps with fuel draw. Also in general yes you should replace the gasket each time you pull it apart but if it is in good condition you can reuse it. Another thing there is a small rubber O-ring around the venturi that can be damaged and sometimes can come off they are easly replaced if you need to replace it and speaking of seals be careful with the seal between the tank and the backplate it can be damaged pretty easily it consists of a lip on the backplate that fits in a small groove machined in the tank if you get a leak there you can use a price of thin thread or dental floss to fix it. Great find man! (Bandit)
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  PlaidHatter on Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:53 am

Thanks man, I'm really psyched. The gasket looked brand new so I just reassembled it, but since gaskets are so cheap I may just order a couple.
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  NEW222 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:54 am

I'd be leaning towards the fact that it appears to have not been run before, but that little piece of tubing on the one tank filler makes me feel otherwise. it does definately look pristine inside.
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  1/2A Nut on Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:32 am

While its open you use some engine afterun oil to lube things up. Conrod pin, stand it on its nose to seep oil into the crank shaft area.
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  Oldenginerod on Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:34 am

Take a look at this.  http://coxengines.ca/throttle-for-cox-049-engine-bee-style.html
It will mean that you need to remove the screen from the intake port, but they apparently work well. The other option is an exhaust restrictor sleeve type, but they may not fit your cylinder.
http://coxengines.ca/throttle-ring-for-cox-049-engine.html

Rod the Aussie
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  PlaidHatter on Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:27 pm

NEW222 wrote:I'd be leaning towards the fact that it appears to have not been run before, but that little piece of tubing on the one tank filler makes me feel otherwise. it does definately look pristine inside.
I was kinda thinking the same thing. And the bottom port seems to have been slightly filed or something. But I mean the inside was absolutely spotless. I also recently noticed a couple very small marks on the head where the removal tool would go, making me think that this has possibly been taken apart and serviced or cleaned. There was a tiny tiny bit of residue on the crankshaft connects to the piston rod also.
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  getback on Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:45 pm

I think we got one Fishing Fishing Fishing lol! your going to love this when ya get-er going , next will bee a airplane or so to get you in the air Airplane Eric bounce
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Re: Another Newb Needs Model Identification Help!

Post  PlaidHatter on Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:11 pm

getback wrote:I think we got one Fishing Fishing Fishing  lol! your going to love this when ya get-er going , next will bee a airplane or so to get you in the air Airplane  Eric bounce
Oh you definitely got one! I'm hooked fasho!!!
But I think I'm more obsessed with the motor aspect of it than the plane aspect. In fact it's crossed my mind to attempt to make it fit into a model car. I believe that can be easily done right?
Otherwise I just want to get it running and then keep it in a little display case. I've always wanted a mini engine in a display case that could actually run!
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