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First time benching

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Help! First time benching

Post  PlaidHatter on Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:21 pm

Ok so I'm setting up my first bench station, and I'd rather start it right than come back here and start a topic about my issues that I end up having half way through. Haha. Thumbs Up
So veterans, pros, engineers and pretty much anyone with an opinion and more experience than me (which should be all of you); feel free to let me know what I'm forgetting, tell me any tips you have that will make this a more convenient station for seamless startups, Two Cents and any common do's Thumbs Up or don'ts Thumbs Down
This might possibly bee this Golden Bees first start up, so any useful info on engine break in is also a plus.
Here's my current view:
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  1/2A Nut on Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:29 pm

Tip one the prop is on backwards =}
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  PlaidHatter on Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:48 pm

Team player right there!
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  RK Flyer on Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:29 pm

If that's John Belushi peeking out from under the prop, this guy fit's right in, If I am wrong this is just another of my Senior Moments!

RK Flyer Flying
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  RK Flyer on Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:30 pm

Check that fuel it might be too hot!
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  1/2A Nut on Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:35 pm

I gave you a greenie 5 points for taking the plunge!

Do you have a owners manual? If not do a search for a pdf. file.
What size APC prop? Looks like a 4.5 x 4

Run it rich 3 turns out to start and 1.5v in parallel to the glow plug.
The fuel you have has castor but not enough to lean it out all the way for long durations in the summer heat.
Is that medical castor oil or auto?

Bernie with Cox International can sell you a left hand starter spring, glow clip, filler bulb and after run oil.
After running the engine the bare metal crankshaft inside wall of the cylinder can rust do to nitro in the fuel it attracts moisture.

If you allow the prop the way you have it now the prop will cause the prop plate to rub on the crank case the wear will cause a gap
driving the crank pin towards the reed valve. Its better to install a thrust washer for pusher setups. I like the phenolic ones
over stainless steel less wear on the aluminum.


Last edited by 1/2A Nut on Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:41 pm

Remember they can run both ways. What are you going to use to clamp your stand?

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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  Oldenginerod on Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:25 pm

I looked up that O'Donnell fuel and it contains no castor and only 8% synth oil. Plenty of people use medicinal castor which will work ok short term, just gums up more. Use this calculator to work out your mix. 20% - 25% total oil will work fine.
Fuel Mix calculator

Rod.
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  PlaidHatter on Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:24 am

RK Flyer,
That's definitely John Belushi, I'm SO glad someone spotted my hidden creeper face!!! Beer Cheers
Too hot as in too rich? How do I properly cool it off or lean it out?

1/2A Nut,
Lol thanks, I'm not sure what greenie points are just yet, but I'm sure any kind of points are good, as long as they're not on my license. Wink
I actually do not have an owners manual, and searching for one is definitely on my to do list, I just needed to try it the mans way first and ignore the fact that an owners manual exists.
The prop says "APC" "4.2 x 2" I realize this may be a wrong propeller, I was way too trusting in the hobby shop employee, until I got home. I hate temporary solutions, but, as my favorite saying goes "what would MacGuyver do?"
Please explain in detail "Run it rich 3 turns out" does this mean turn the needle 3 turns from where it bottoms out?
I did add some castor oil to it, and I wasn't able to start til this evening and it's much cooler out now, so hopefully that will benefit me.
Yes, it is medical castor oil, it's the only type of castor oil I found in my search. Please don't tell me I screwed all my fuel by adding a different type of oil than I was supposed to. I was totally expecting to find a castor oil in the engine additives department and was very surprised when I could only find a castor vegetable oil, please tell me something I want to hear. . . . Paranoid
I have a good size list of parts I need to order, I'm just on a budget and wanted to order everything I needed once I figured out what "everything" was, to take advantage of shipping. A new smaller prop is in my near future, maybe I'll see if Victors Hobbies will return this one tomorrow. Thanks for all the input, Nut!

Cribbs74,
Right now I have my 2 D batteries strapped to it and then the whole thing is strapped to a larger plastic base about the size of a magazine.

Oldenginerod,
Thanks for the calculator, another forum member did some calculations for me when I questioned this fuel yesterday, and told me I would need to add 4.6oz of caster oil to get an acceptable mixture, so I removed some fuel from the bottle and added 4oz.

So my summary for tonight, . . .
Here we go. I couldn't get the engine to start or even attempt to turn over. I filled the 8cc tank with about 6cc's of the aforementioned fuel mixture, clipped the power onto the head and after a few spins I noticed a small leak out of one of the screws in the back plate. I dismounted the engine, tightened the screws, and attempted again. Now I see a bubbling from between the crankcase and the tank when I turn the prop. So I guess it's gasket time. Rolling Eyes

I also noticed that the glow plug was glowing pretty bright (I know, glow plug, go figure) I'm not familiar with these engines so I guess I was surprised to see it glow this bright, I'm hoping this is what a normal glow looks like after 3-4 seconds of battery power hooked up?

Anyway, now that I've written a three part novel, if anyone else has any more input on the situation, it would be appreciated, I'm still set up in the back yard.
And thank you all for your assistance so far, I'm still learning a lot about these, quite a bit more ever day, and just less than a week ago I never even knew these awesome little machines existed. :not nice:
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  PlaidHatter on Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:26 am

And if anyone could tell me why my pictures will randomly appear upside down or on their side, I wouldn't mind knowing a trick to that either. Lol. Wink
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  PlaidHatter on Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:26 am



I have some great news! My Bee stung me! But it's a good problem!
She buzzed for barely half a second to let me know she's alive and she doesn't mess around! In the blink of an eye she gave three pretty decent lacerations on my "no drag finger". The moment I saw blood is when I realized we were gonna bee best friends. The moment I heard the buzz, is when I realized it was 11:pm and the neighbors would have to wait til tomorrow to meet my new friend.
Tomorrow hopefully she'll run long enough for me to warm her up, make a throttle, figure out how I want my station set up, and might bee a swell day to get some tune up parts to start swarming my way!
Thanks again guys for sticking around and answering questions while I colonized Babe Bee
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  PlaidHatter on Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:35 am

Im just gonna leave this right here. . .
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  1/2A Nut on Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:10 am

The prop is for a .020 Pee Wee or TD .020 it is too small for that engine and will over rev the engine if you lean out the needle too much.

Close the NV down snug not tight then open 3 turns. NV close is lean open is rich
and rich is good for hot weather, too rich and it loads / strains the engine.

Insure your 4 screws are tight on the back plate and your gasket should be new and will seal.

Read the instructions pertaining to your type of engine down load the pdf. here:
https://sites.google.com/site/coxenginecollection/instructionpapers/GoldenBee.049instruction.pdf?attredirects=0

All the manuals here:

https://www.coxengineforum.com/h24-instruction-sheets

Dont add tooo much castor unless you know how much to add otherwise you will over oil the mix design and strain the engines piston rod and ball socket. How much did you add?

With fine sand paper smooth the back edge of the prop so you will stop cutting up your flipping finger.
Once you have a spring starter your fingers can breath easy. Remember 1.5v to the glow plug no more or you will burn out the element and end your chances of running the engine till you replace the glow plug.

When the engine fires up it should be running rich even with that prop its ok to lean it out just enough to keep it running for engine break in time. About 1.7 turns should have it humming in the end after break in and with the right prop. The engine does good with Cox 5x3 props. Read the manual do your engine a favor.

The greenie is the green line on the right side of your first post if you notice under your profile pic rep points have been added where there was none before. Other posts you will see a + and - sign plus for good job minus for bad job or advice, disagree strongly kind of thing only give them out as you see fit preferably + only lol... most members don't like them - ones as it takes points from your total rep score.
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:46 am

PlaidHatter wrote:

Welcome to the club. It might be the first, but it won't be the last injury of that type. You'll get smarter as you go. I was brought up on diesels rather than glow engines. They run really high compresion and when they fire the prop can give you a wicked kick. Blood is not uncommon. Sanding the sharp edges of the prop is good advice, but get the right prop first. That little prop will allow the engine to rev far too high and potentially do some damage. The further out you screw the needle the richer it will run and the slower the revs. That's a good way to stop it over reving if the prop is too small, but it makes a mess of unburnt oil (well, actually all castor is unburnt because it doesn't burn lol! ).
The excessive oil coming from the exhaust helps to carry away heat so the engine runs cooler when rich. Too much castor won't damage the engine, just the performance. In your situation (where you have no immediate plans to fly with this engine) the performance isn't an issue. Excessive running of your engine with medicinal castor may allow varnish to build up inside the engine which can tighten the engine up, but the amount of synthetic oil you have in your fuel should keep it clean. Varnish can actually be good in an old worn engine because it takes up slack. Not good for tight new engines.
If the engine is new and unrun, run it slow and rich for about a minute and then stop it to allow it to cool down. Do this 3 or 4 times because it helps to temper the metal and relieve stress. An unbroken engine can wear out really quickly but the same engine that has been correctly "heat cycled" will last a long long time. Having said that, you're usually pretty safe with a Cox because they're very accurately made and don't seem to need as much break-in as other engines.

Rod.
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  Ken Cook on Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:16 am

A very simple solution is to wear a glove and keep your props sanded by removing the flash. I use a bowling ball insert on my flipping finger.
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  balogh on Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:24 am

That bench looks nice for a display but may lead to vibrations...I would go for a metal bench e.g. like the multi-purpose COX stand Bernie sells: http://coxengines.ca/engine-test-stand-for-cox-010-020-049-51.html

Otherwise welcome to the CPMFC: COX Prop-maimed fingers club:



Courtesy photo: trophy-picture collection of one of my TeeDee051-s...took the ER assistant a few stitches to make my finger look at least like this.
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  getback on Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:15 am

Glad to see your getting some ACTION on your end there , just keep getting better , I use a chicken stick that I made or you can purchase ,, my finger flipper isn't as fast as it use to be lol! http://coxengines.ca/search.php?mode=search&page=1 small chic stick. Eric Very Happy
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  PlaidHatter on Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:41 am

Balogh,
Yeah the main idea of the stand was to have something for the engine to sit on for a nice display and then bolt the display to a fully functional building station when it's "go time". So far the plexiglass is super rigid and easy to keep clean, just a bit light weight, but I like having the versatility and not needing to hang my engine over the edge of a table at all times.

Getback,
I think I have the perfect wooden rod to use, and maybe I'll put some padding on it so as not to damage the blade. I already noticed a very small nick in the knife edge of the blade.
As soon as other people aren't still asleep in the house I'll start twisting her up again and getting a feel for how I want my station laid out.
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  PlaidHatter on Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:52 am

Is there maybe a topic where people are showing off their bench station setups? In my mind I kinda have an idea of what I'm wanting it to look like, with a power source and all in its designated spots, but it would be nice to see more of what others have done too and get a feel for what ideas other people find ideal.
I'm just not a fan of the engine screwed to a 2x4 and then clamped in a vice, with everything just hanging off of it for a work station. Not that there's anything wrong with it, it seems to be a preferred method, it's just not something my OCD would be happy with. Lol. Thumbs Up
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  getback on Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:35 am

Pliad you will have to come up with something of your own liking for the test station with a search with end there are a few but mostly just test runs https://www.coxengineforum.com/search?search_keywords=test+stands , Most I think of us are just for breakin and test for airplane use before mounting something that U want to know what the performance is going to bee ?? Just saying , It will be interesting to see what you and OHC ? come up with . Eric
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  PlaidHatter on Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:48 am

getback wrote:you like shiney ck this engine schroll down

Oh yeah, that's totally sexy!!! Bling bling baby! But see how the black cylinder is the only non-shiny metallic part? That bugs. Lol.

So I was looking around and I found this style station, which is complete sex! The name of the guy that builds them sounded familiar so maybe he's even a forum member, it wouldn't surprise me. But this is kinda the station I have in my head, just a bit larger and more adjustable for various setups. I love the versatility here. Even the throttle attached to a shift lever is remarkably like what I had in mind for setting up today, just not quite as long. This mans mind functions just like mine, and I friggin love it!  Thumbs Up

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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  PlaidHatter on Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:54 am

getback wrote:Pliad you will have to come up with something of your own liking for the test station with a search with end there are a few but mostly just test runs https://www.coxengineforum.com/search?search_keywords=test+stands  , Most I think of us are just for breakin and test for airplane use before mounting something that U want to know what the performance is going to bee ?? Just saying , It will be interesting to see what you and OHC ? come up with . Eric  

Yeah I'm just an engine guy really, so I realize my needs are different than most people here, and my experience is going to put me in a different category as well, but maybe that's the "outside of the box" aspect that's needed. I should find some pictures of the vape building station and tools a made with plexi, I've been on a plexiglass kick for a while, which is odd considering my background as a metal fabricator. Haha.
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  PlaidHatter on Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:51 pm

Ok so after noticing leaks that were worse when the engine was bolted up, I tore everything down, sanded the back plate to be perfectly flat, made a venturi gasket from some fuel hose, cleaned everything up, reassembled, and bolted the engine back up on the stand.
I'm starting the engine on a table in the garage with my brother in law and his friend, it takes a while and then suddenly it starts right up and keeps going, the RPMs seem to keep rising rapidly and we see the four securing bolts start to loosen (at this point my brother in law and his friend jump up and run for the door) I'm frantically grabbing at the stand as its kinda walking around, I'm trying to keep clear of the blades and turn the choke down to kill it. It finally dies and I see there's one bolt left holding it loosely to the stand, this is when I realize that I had my finger against the cylinder the whole time that I was twisting the needle valve, instant blister in the shape of two lines. This all happened in I'd say 5 seconds or so.
I really have to admit that I didn't know these engines were that unbalanced (which now that I think about it, may have also been partially due to the non-Cox prop I was sold) but I also had no idea these engines got so hot so quick. I figured it would get hot, but after running for 5 seconds I didn't know it would cook my dinner. Lol.

So I'll totally own up to it, I underestimated this engine and it slapped me around a bit. Sad Goodbye
Lesson learned, time to reevaluate the situation.

So can anyone tell me why my RPMs kept climbing the entire time it was running? Maybe I'm just not used to those kinds of RPMs, but still an inconsistent RPM must mean some variable is changing right? The needle valve was only about 2 turns out.
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Help! Re: First time benching

Post  cox24711 on Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:57 pm

your golden bee wil do 17000 rpm and it probily has bin run for a while so i would run it 3 times with the needle set at 2 1/2 turns and after that you can then you can lean her out
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