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Post  roddie Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:40 pm

My brother Jeff bought this Big Top-Flite kit last Saturday.

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He bought it for $25.. at an unattended flea market table. Someone got the owner on the phone.. and they made the deal. (the owner was asking $30..) It's mine now... and I know very little else about it. It appears to be complete. Two small parts are out of their sheets.. and wrapped in a paper towel. The box and some of the printed paper inside suffered damage that I think may have been caused by moths. The plans and decals are good.. but the original instruction booklet had been eaten by something. It and a photocopy of it are in the box. The photocopy is aged.. so it looks to have been in attic storage most of it's life.

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The paper covering the box looks to have been eaten in the same way.

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It's a .60 size/stand-off scale RC model.. so I'll need to find an engine for it if I think about building it. I don't want to think about building it.. silent but it would be a nice project for "he and I" to work on. He loves full-scale.. but has had no desire to build/fly models. He's great with tools.. and builds things all the time. He's that much younger than me.. that he doesn't remember our dad, uncle and grandfather flying control-line in the early 60's. He sees models as toys. It bothers me when people called them that.. unless it's mentioned in an endearing way.

So.. add one more to the list of "to be built someday".. Rolling Eyes



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Post  Cribbs74 Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:20 pm

Nice kit Roddie,

I don't know a thing about it, sure is a big sucker though. A CL conversion would be possible and flown at scale events.

The price was right, I have some old mags that have those same paper holes. My guess is wasps chewing up the paper to make a nest.

Anyway, looks like a worthwhile build.

Ron

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Post  cox24711 Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:22 pm

it could be silver fish
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Post  getback Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:37 am

Looks like a all winter project , as Ron said make it a scale UC and man that would bee something to see , Cool Beans , all the wood in good shape ? Most creators don't like Balsa Laughing and that's a good thing !!tongue Popcorn
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Post  roddie Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:05 pm

cox24711 wrote:it could be silver fish

Maybe Greg.. If it is a bug.. it's a small one.. unless the box was open.. which is a possibility. Huh...

There's no damage/staining to any of the wood though. The gear struts, wood blocks and hdwe. are still sealed in one bag. There's even a sample-swatch of Mono-Kote stapled to a Top-Flite ad. for it's use. (it's strange that certain papers weren't affected by whatever attacked the box and instruction booklet.)

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While taking the above photo.. I pawed deeper through the box for the first time.. and my suspicions (unfortunately) are true. The cowl and canopy are missing... They can be made easy enough though.

I thought about a control-line conversion. It's a stand-off-scale design.. so it wouldn't be sac-religious to do some "kit-bashing". Shocked   Still.. I can't afford an engine for it. A Carrier model would be interesting though. I'll have to ask Jim (jpvelo) if he knows whether there's a class for models this large.
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Post  dckrsn Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:17 pm

cox24711 wrote:it could be silver fish
Good one Greg. The Killer of great vintage books. Sad
That and the deathwatch beetle.
Bob
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Post  Cribbs74 Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:47 pm

roddie wrote:
cox24711 wrote:it could be silver fish

Maybe Greg.. If it is a bug.. it's a small one.. unless the box was open.. which is a possibility. Huh...

There's no damage/staining to any of the wood though. The gear struts, wood blocks and hdwe. are still sealed in one bag. There's even a sample-swatch of Mono-Kote stapled to a Top-Flite ad. for it's use. (it's strange that certain papers weren't affected by whatever attacked the box and instruction booklet.)

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While taking the above photo.. I pawed deeper through the box for the first time.. and my suspicions (unfortunately) are true. The cowl and canopy are missing... They can be made easy enough though.

I thought about a control-line conversion. It's a stand-off-scale design.. so it wouldn't be sac-religious to do some "kit-bashing". Shocked   Still.. I can't afford an engine for it. A Carrier model would be interesting though. I'll have to ask Jim (jpvelo) if he knows whether there's a class for models this large.

If you build it I will supply an engine...
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Post  KariFS Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:43 am

dckrsn wrote:
cox24711 wrote:it could be silver fish
Good one Greg. The Killer of great vintage books. Sad
That and the deathwatch beetle.
Bob
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Yeah, silverfish can get to all kinds of places. I am renovating our kitchen and under some loose floor tiles there were a whole bunch of them, little ones and bigger ones and their poop too. I have some vintage books in the next room, better check them for damage Shocked I think silverfish is also known as "bookworm".

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Post  rsv1cox Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:27 am

Yes, Silverfish, nasty things. They loved the cardboard boxes in the attic over the garage in Florida. I was worried about transporting them to West Virginia when we moved but not so, seems they don't survive here. But we did find a scorpion inside a boxed TV when we unpacked.

Nice find on that F4U, I have to get busy on mine.

Bob
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Post  fredvon4 Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:02 am

I think a 7 to 9 pound plane (112oz-144oz) will be a bit too large to fly control line...big heavy planes have been done and it is very possible to construct it for wires and a bell crank, but truthfully that particular kit is a very good RC bird. I have seen many of them built and flown

One I know has a Super Tiger G90 (same size and weight as the ST .60) with a very good looking scale 4 wide paddle propeller dragging the plane around and she flies very realistically with working flaps and retract gear. The guy even added one of the cool sound chips and speaker system to simulate machine gun on strafing runs... it also has the radial engine (Merlin) sound track but it sounds terrible against the 2 cycle motor

As kits go, this is one of top flights hardest to build. And if you are a master builder you will replace a LOT of the wood for the correct density/weight/grain in many areas

One more bit of concern...one of these landing at our RC field caught a gust of wind just as it settled on the gear---- flipped it over...I called it a total loss--- but the owner loved it so much he spent a year rebuilding it....point is when this kit crashes, it is pretty ugly


All that said it is my favorite military airplane (thanks Black Sheep Squadron) and on my bucket list to build--- But I am looking at some of the (much more expensive) larger laser (kits)
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Post  JPvelo Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:19 pm

Roddie,

Class 1&2 carrier (full fuselage classes) have a max wingspan of 44". A Rossi .60 in a 44" model has got to be a good time!

You should build it up as a scale model with a throttle. I can supply with a three line handle if you decide to go that way.

Jim
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Post  akjgardner Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:52 pm

Nice Kit.please post progress pics...thanks Joe
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Post  stuntflyr Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:04 am

Nice Corsair kit. That's a famous "red box" version of the Top Flite series of semi-scale R/C models. Nice looking, great for C/L Sport Scale event. The canopy and cowling are available still, the Gold Edition 61 inch model is the same scale and currently made. Great flying models, a modern 61 R/C engine on 2.4 would be great fun. In the past many Scale flyers have chosen these models to compete with to good result. I remember a Junior flyer in the 80's used the Top Flite Thunderbolt, with flaps and retracts.
A model's pull at the handle is trimmed by balance and leadout position, for flying level a big Scale model needn't pull all that hard.
Chris...
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Post  roddie Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:39 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:

If you build it I will supply an engine...

Hey Ron, First of all.. "Thank You". I'd like to build it for sure.. but before I do.. I need more space.. Laughing time.. Laughing undistracted-time.. Laughing Laughing before I'll be able to start a serious build. I hope it's soon. I've been wanting to use the RCM fuse-jig that I built. I'll have to look at the plans again.. but I think there's a side-note on the fuse-sides being pre-formed. Huh... I also want to use my RCM wing-jig.. but forget about using it on a gull-wing. More my speed right now, is taking your advice on proceeding with my S1 Ring. I think that's a realistic goal.. seeing that the wing is built.. it just needs the proper reinforcements, a straight -build, covering.. and I've got a Fox for it. The N.E.S.T. guys have a couple outings on their schedule this late Summer/Fall. Many members actively fly Fox .35 Stunt engines in their models. They're all about CLPA! I hope to attend. It does offer the chance of an adrenaline-rush that can help to jump-start a build. That's what I need.. a jump-start that can only be attained by hands-on and conversing in person. I wish we all lived down the street.



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Post  Cribbs74 Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:53 am

Yeah the Ring will get you in the air quicker. Maybe shelve the corsair for a later date.

If we all lived on the same street we would never work and play all the time!!!
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Post  roddie Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:54 am

JPvelo wrote:Roddie,

Class 1&2 carrier (full fuselage classes) have a max wingspan of 44". A Rossi .60 in a 44" model has got to be a good time!

You should build it up as a scale model with a throttle. I can supply with a three line handle if you decide to go that way.

Jim

Jim, Thanks also for the 3-line handle offer. I actually have a NIB J. Roberts unit that I bought at the AMA NATS in the mid-90's when they were held in Springfield, MA. I bought a bell-crank for it too that day.. but I misplaced it. I have parts boxes that I haven't gone through.. since before we moved to N. Smithfield almost 6 years ago. I've got cardboard parts-boxes of odd modeling stuff, stacked-up 3-5 high x 2-wide in a Rubbermaid armoire that's up against a wall in my basement.. blocked by a worktable that's got a ton of stuff on it and under it. Mad Sad   Nothing goes away.. it just keeps piling-up. It's overwhelming; the amount of stuff that's in the only place I have indoors.. to build anything. I built the little Rare-Bear on an old small round wooden table with a 3' x 4' sheet of 9/16" particle-board on top. It's blocking the armoire.. and also serves as my scroll-saw station. Thanks for reading this far.. I'm not done.. Laughing I've developed a bittersweet attitude toward my modeling activities. The "sweet" side remains and always will.. the "desire" side of things. The "bitter" is the reality of time constraints, available concentration/patience.. etc. I know I'm not alone with these challenges.. but it sure would help if I had a buddy to build/fly with locally. I thought that the CEF Flyer idea would generate some interest. Maybe I'll check into the cost of running an ad in the weekly local free-paper. Something large enough to include the QR-code, Small Cox Logo CEF logo and my mobile number for info.
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Post  roddie Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:11 am

Cribbs74 wrote:Yeah the Ring will get you in the air quicker. Maybe shelve the corsair for a later date.

If we all lived on the same street we would never work and play all the time!!!

Yea.. If I was smart.. I'd get the cowl and canopy from Top-Flite now. (thanks Chris) before shelving it. They may not be available later.. and it would nice knowing that the kit is complete.. whatever it's destiny.

Knowing more about it now.. it's a project for a higher skill-set than mine.. in both; building and flying it RC. I have little to no RC flight-skills. It was an expensive kit back in 1978..

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Post  JPvelo Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:42 pm

Roddie,

Are any of these guys in your 'hood? Might be worth going to a meeting and see if you can hook up with anyone local. Just be careful, you might end up as club secretary like me!

https://sites.google.com/site/newenglandstuntteam/
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Post  roddie Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:48 pm

JPvelo wrote:Roddie,

Are any of these guys in your 'hood? Might be worth going to a meeting and see if you can hook up with anyone local. Just be careful, you might end up as club secretary like me!

https://sites.google.com/site/newenglandstuntteam/

Yes! I'm on their mailing list and recently attended a fun-fly in Wrentham, MA. I was a club member for a few short years back in the early-mid 90's. Damian Sheehy is the nearest active member to me. He's a very busy guy.. (and the club secretary..) We're approx. a 45 min. drive apart. I'm busy too.. with Saturday night gigs steadily through the end of the year. They take up a lot of my time.. but it helps with the bills. Weeknights.. I'm fried mentally after work. This new job has been taxing on me, both mentally and physically. I'm apprehensive about buying any glow-fuel.. because I don't know how soon I'll be able to use it. I'd need some Power-Master 10-22 or an equivalent mix of something else.. just to bench-run my old bushed steel-fin engines. I've got props a plenty for all my engines. Fuel tanks too.. but I could use some larger ones. I've thought about building them myself. Don't need much workbench space for tank building.. just having all the materials and tools close at hand. I'd like to find or better yet "make" a little trolley-cart with a drawer and maybe one shelf at the bottom. Just roll it around to wherever you need it.. and have it loaded with sensible things like a hobby-knife, sandpaper, metal file, pencil/ruler, CA glue, small clamps, razor-saw etc. If soldering.. add tin-sheet/plumbing stock, solder/flux, small nylon-face hammer, some sm. hardwood blocks/wedges and a good clean pencil iron. Ooo..Shocked I suddenly feel like drawing-up tank templates! I had an idea for forming a profile-tank body that I've been wanting to try. I have some balsa leading-edge cut-offs from good size (36-42") wing stock. If hardened using thin CA, a 3 or 4"L. piece with a hardwood backer-block glued to it, might make for a decent plug.. and possibly be strong enough for forming the end-caps. Were you happy with the tank you built recently?
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Post  fredvon4 Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:13 am

Roddie, no need to be apprehensive on ordering or buying your fuel. We all can tell you of decades old fuel that is still good because it was in a good container, sealed, and kept in the dark.

My preference is metal cans but I have a lot of plastic jug, gallons and quarts that are various vintage (most less than 5 years but two that are old stock 20+ years Fox missile mist). The old stuff is still good for what I play with

I screwed up early on buying fuel and failed to MARK the jug(s) with the necessary info (some stick on factory labels fell off) so ended up using it for cleaning and bench running only

I think a good investment a few years ago was a full gallon of nitro and gallon methanol from e-bay seller Torco
( http://www.ebay.com/itm/Torco-RC-Fuel-100-Nitro-Gallon-/190692756364?hash=item2c662c8b8c)

Sig sells a quarts of pure castor and quarts of the Benol oils

And during a buy from Riches brew I had him ship me a quart of Ucon 625 oil

With these components on hand I can adjust most store bought fuels to a blend I need or want to experiment with

Sig also got my business for quarts of the champion all castor blends
I have not tried the new Hobbico Cox blend but reports here are it is good stuff

Being real anal about UV deterioration I bought some 1 gallon metal cans from a local Sherwin-Williams paint store

All my fuel is now marked by what is in it, and what engine group is was blended for

All fuel is stored in a climate controlled building, and in the dark.

I never take a gallon jug to the flying site. The pint and quart jugs I do take, are always covered with a towel out of direct sun and never left OPEN
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Post  roddie Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:59 pm

fredvon4 wrote:Roddie, no need to be apprehensive on ordering or buying your fuel. We all can tell you of decades old fuel that is still good because it was in a good container, sealed, and kept in the dark.

My preference is metal cans but I have a lot of plastic jug, gallons and quarts that are various vintage (most less than 5 years but two that are old stock 20+ years Fox missile mist). The old stuff is still good for what I play with

I screwed up early on buying fuel and failed to MARK the jug(s) with the necessary info (some stick on factory labels fell off) so ended up using it for cleaning and bench running only

Being real anal about UV deterioration I bought some 1 gallon metal cans from a local Sherwin-Williams paint store

All my fuel is now marked by what is in it, and what engine group is was blended for

All fuel is stored in a climate controlled building, and in the dark.

I never take a gallon jug to the flying site. The pint and quart jugs I do take, are always covered with a towel out of direct sun and never left OPEN

Thanks Fred. You're right.. and I'm a lot like you.. with details like these. I don't like wasting anything. I don't trust plastic containers for keeping fuel fresh. I hear much speak of vintage tin-can fuel lasting almost indefinitely.. if unopened. I may opt to buy/transfer a gal. into 4 tin quarts.. and label them accordingly.. making sure to seal them tightly. Does Sherwin Williams sell empty quart tins? I've priced them at McMaster-Carr. You could have a whole gallon go bad.. but you probably might not have 4 quarts all go bad. And what about fuel transfer.. is there a system we could all be using to minimize waste.. while at the same time, optimizing re-sealing/vapor-recovery? I've been steered away from even small rubber primer bulbs.. although I always swore by the little rubber bulb that came in the Sig 1/2A engine starting kit. Sig later substituted a priming syringe.. much to my dismay. I've repaired a seam-split in my small primer bulb.. just to be able to keep using it. While we're on that subject.. Sig has also discontinued 1/2A spring-style wheel retainers... the standard for fixing wheels to a stout 1/16" m/w gear.. lightweight.. reliable. For Sig.. it's become an inSIGnificant item to stock .. but I see a 1/2A control-line community growing.. if not through this forum alone, that would buy them regularly.
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Post  fredvon4 Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:32 am

Several thoughts further hijacking the Corsair thread

I had though about using quart cans but opted for the locally bought gallon cans. Only time will tell if they do or do not rust inside. I mention this because I bought about 6 gallons of fuel from a deceased RC club members estate sale. I examined each can with a pen light, and while most of the vintage gallon fuel and cans were in "as new" shape (inside) several of the old stock Cox and Estes pint cans had rusted inside at the bottom and side seams.

I took the fuel from the rusty cans, Nitro/oil percentage unknown, filtered, and mixed it all into a 1 used gallon plastic jug and marked it for cleaning, and bench running. I am sure some was 25%N and some 10%N but have no idea what oil content was. Having several RC large displacement, but relatively low cost, engines I used the unknown fuel for the hours long break in recommendations. As far as I can tell the engines like the fuel on the bench, did not over heat, and allowed me to get a lot of hot/cool cycles on them fairly cheaply....That said, I would never peak out or fly with the questionable fuel

I also got two gallons of Missile mist (my child hood favorite) and I am a miser with it only running on the bench for the crackle sound and smell in my Fox and Enya 35s

Fun Facts (no reference, just my observations from reading and real life)

Pure Methanol is hyrdoscopic meaning it will absorb water vapor directly from the atmosphere
-- I can observe this in an poorly sealed container of straight methanol...
You wounder how can I observe this?

Yes it is true, unlike water in gasoline (many have seen this in our lawn mover fuel tanks) water in Methanol is totally absorbed and not visible.
--One day mixing precise volumes with a graduated beaker, I got a phone call right as I finished putting 120ML (about 4oz)of methanol in the beaker (hot 75% humidity day) an hour later I got off the phone with my sister and back to "blending"-- OH crap the beaker now had 123ML of fluid in it

I sort off suspect blended fuel with OIL and Nitro greatly reduce the absorption rate. This from my observation of my RC buddies at the airfield all day long at 65% humidity leaving their gallon jugs open and the fuel seems to be just fine for their sport flying

Before the expense of buying 98~99%pure Nitromethane, I needed to know about the stuff---off to google and Wiki

Angus Chemicals, now a subsidiary of Dow Chemical Co. since about June of 2000 is the ONLY major manufacturer of nitromethane in this hemisphere. Also, Angus makes just ONE grade of nitromethane, about 98.4% pure and it is used for industrial use, car racing, and a very small amount, relatively speaking, for model use.

Nitro degrades by photodecomposition and is broken down slowly on exposure to light, but it is a very slow and drawn out process, occurring over months and years of storage. Overall, the chemical stability of nitromethane is pretty good compared to a lot of other chemical compounds. If you put a clear bottle of nitro, tightly capped, in a dark place that does not get any light except when you take out some nitro for your fuel, it will last for years.


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Post  JPvelo Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:13 pm

roddie wrote:Were you happy with the tank you built recently?  


Very happy. It's one of those things that was a lot easier to do than I thought it would be.

Jim
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Post  roddie Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:56 pm

JPvelo wrote:
roddie wrote:Were you happy with the tank you built recently?  


Very happy. It's one of those things that was a lot easier to do than I thought it would be.

Jim

Fuel tank (hard-tank) building is something that everyone who runs IC engines in control line models, should try at least once. Depending on the models design.. it may be necessary to build a custom tank to fit the application. It doesn't require much of an investment in materials.. or working space. Tin sheet (.008" is what I used recently with good results) can be cut easily with ordinary scissors. Templates can be custom made.. or can be found on the web and scaled to the size required.

Of course, it helps if you like the whole idea of running a tank that built yourself. To me.. a tin hard-tank has soul. If you take your time.. a hand-built tank is usually much better than a store-bought one. Plumb it the way "you" want it. If it's a profile tank.. buff the $h&t out of it.. til' it shines like chrome!

The next tanks I build will likely be in the 3-4oz. range.. for my .35 powered models. The S1 Ring, Voo Doo and Falcon. Maybe building a couple tanks will be a catalyst to finish one of them. It's good to have the tank there early-on in a build. Building a sensible mounting for it. It also helps avoid the added-on at the last-minute look.
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Corsair kit flea market find Empty Top-Flite kit RC-21 circa 1978

Post  roddie Wed May 10, 2023 8:47 pm

Fast-forward 7+ years. Reporting on the thread-subject for the Top-Flite kit RC-21 circa 1978 given to me by my brother Jeff, who had eagle'd-it at a garage sale.

Still untouched.. moth-eaten.. and missing its' radial cowling for the engine.. it has sat in its' box.. not unlike a coffin. Years later; I would "win" an Enya .60 RC glow engine from rsv1cox.. (my good friend "Robert"!). This engine is probably in the top 3 recommended engines that would be best for this particular kit, back in 1978. The Enya .60 RC came with a "Perry" pump; leading me to assume that this might have been a heli-engine. (photos later)

I've recently become friends with a fellow-modeller who lives about 8 miles up the road. A 15 min. leisurely drive... Very Happy We're about the same age, both married and retired. He's a dedicated modeler with an engineering background. I pitched the idea of a build... to him recently.. and he accepted the challenge.

I'm hoping that this thread will become a build-log.
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