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Post  RknRusty Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:09 pm

So far I have thought of a couple of options for re-hinging the flaps on my current repair project. I originally decided to sew them, since they are still connected to the flap coupler. However Ken suggested the CA hinges that came with the plane. I blew it off until Mark's recent How-To thread, which made me re-think it. But how about Monokote hinges? I have never done it. Is it just strips of Monokote sealed together glue-side to glue-side, over and under, with that glued seam being the hinge point? That could also be self sealing if I make several long ones placed end to end. Is it strong enough for a 40 size stunter?
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Post  happydad Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:43 pm

RknRusty wrote:So far I have thought of a couple of options for re-hinging the flaps on my current repair project. I originally decided to sew them, since they are still connected to the flap coupler. However Ken suggested the CA hinges that came with the plane. I blew it off until Mark's recent How-To thread, which made me re-think it. But how about Monokote hinges? I have never done it. Is it just strips of Monokote sealed together glue-side to glue-side, over and under, with that glued seam being the hinge point? That could also be self sealing if I make several long ones placed end to end. Is it strong enough for a 40 size stunter?
Rusty

Rusty: My philosophy is the bigger the plane the wider the hinge. Start with strips like you suggested, even different colors for top and bottom if needed, make sure to seal the monocoat correctly, but not burn or melt it. Then cut the wide pieces into narrow strips perpendicular to the sealing. For my small winspan 30 inch planes I used maybe 1/4 inch strips. For the 72 - 96 inch winspan sailplanes maybe 1/2 inch strips. For powered planes 40 - 60 maybe 5/8 - 3/4 inch wide strips. It depends also on what kind of coating you use. Some of the cheaper Monokote like stuff is thinner and doesn't work as well for larger plane hinges. Make sure you use Monokote or something that is as thick and strong as Monokote. Two Cents

Edited 8:43p.m. 9-4-15: to correct spelling error.

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Last edited by happydad on Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : To correct spelling)
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Post  batjac Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:53 pm

Rusty, as you probably know from my mini MonoKote hinge tutorial, I really love MonoKote hinges. And, I know I've seen posts over on StuntHanger talking about using MonoKote hinges on the elevator of Flite Streaks. But for myself, I don't think I'd use MonoKote hinges on a .40 size stunter. That's just me, though. Of the choices, I'd go with the CA hinges.

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Post  RknRusty Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:04 pm

Thanks, HD and Mark. Sounds good, and I can use long strips end to end, sealing the whole hinge line. I like this idea. The silver hinges on the yellow wing will look good if I get it on straight and neat. I'll probably use 1" wide lengths and overlap the glue sides 1/4". About 4 of them end to end should work. and for looks and security, cover the entire length with another strip.. I was just now looking at a similar thread on SH and posted over there too.
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Post  Ken Cook Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:10 am

Rusty, the reason at this stage I suggested the CA hinges is due to the slots in the wing and flaps already being there. You may not know this but the slots are almost continuous down the flap and the trailing edge. A very poor design and truthfully it becomes a failure point on the wing. It lets oil migrate into it and the covering isn't protecting this area as it's seamed directly on this slit. The covering of the ARF's usually depart in it's entirety. The only solution is removal of it in it's entirety and using quality covering. This makes the ARC a much better option. I have had two of them in flight lose the entire bottom covering in flight. The covering is terrible and trying or even attempting to make a Monokote hinge using it would certainly be a bad decision. It's a very low temp covering and Monokote doesn't even stick to it very well because the needed heat to activate the adhesive usually makes the cheap covering shrink back. I've tried pieces of Ultracote on it with better success but the best success was using packing tape. Done correctly, I've seen Monokote hinges on many large stunters. A large benefit of a Monokote hinge is the gap line is now sealed. This practice can assist  overweight planes to  fly far superior than open gaps. It prevents the plane from dropping hard when the speed bleeds off through the maneuvers.  The hinges are very free, this isn't the case with CA hinges. There's just no way to control how the CA wicks into the hinge material and this is a recipe for failure over time. You want the hinges to outlast the plane . The CA hinge in your situation  now is most fitting. They would conceal the best and make getting back in the air the easiest. Way back when I first mentioned and pictured some of my variations of stitched hinges, I know you chimed in to mention how you liked them and many started to use them. I'm deeply opposed to CA hinges. I see others are not opposed, but I certainly have seen enough evidence personally and witnessing to come to the conclusion that they're not for me.  That's just my opinion. I've  seen them fail due to the reasoning above with CA wicking into them. They also have that tendency to return to neutral usually at a bad time. A stunter should have the elevator and flaps fall on their own weight. When you achieve that, you know you've set your controls correctly.

    Many will say, I used them and it's not a problem and I never seen them fail. How many of these guys are trying to fly the pattern who use them? Your not sport flying here, your trying to fly as precisely as possible. This is certainly where a unwanted control movement could be most problematic. This type of action can certainly be linked to a plane hunting in level flight. That little bit of stiffness is not finding the plane's groove when it's trying to fly in level flight. I've seen a gummed up pushrod guide cause similar problems due to the controls having to fight constantly for a input.   Think about how many times your controls are quickly flipping from one maneuver to the next just in the few minutes of flying a pattern. Certainly, this increases the chances of failure.  Our control surfaces are moving faster than most R/C planes do and doing it a much more frequent rate. The plane has sustained a pretty bad accident. There's no telling what will happen when you get it back in the air. It might be fine, it may not be fine. It could also suffer a catastrophic failure down the road do to hidden damage you just couldn't see.

  As I have a lot of opposition to them and what  I just stated may seem very controversial, I just feel it's a easy solution right now to your situation. Your goals here apparently are to always move forward and take yourself to advanced. That being said, get the plane in the air fast. That plane while it still might be adequate to fly, I wouldn't be shooting for 500 point patterns with it. It's time to move on to another and use this one for practicing. If the CA hinges don't work out for you, they can quickly be cut out and pin hinges could easily be installed once again. Pin hinges in my opinion are the best, it's what most use, take a look at a contest they speak for themselves.
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Post  RknRusty Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:44 am

Ken, as always, I appreciate your words of wisdom. Even as an Intermediate Stunt flyer I don't always fully grasp, or haven't learned the difference between what I need from a stunter, compared with what i need from my fun flyers.

500 points is within reach. 455 is my highest contest score yet, and that was with judges I consider to be quality guys. So, yeah, I don't need any wonky controls for my contest plane. I'll be surprised if the Oriental is #1 anymore. I was proud of its free controls, but the Nobler has good hardware too.

Thanks for the thoughtful input.
Rusty

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