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Post  JPvelo Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:52 pm

I have the basic build done, wing epoxied in, flaps and tail feathers on. I hope to be shooting paint by the end of next week.

And now a brief product note. An old timer at the last club meeting suggested Nitro Stan as a filler so I used it instead of my usual spackel.
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Maybe I don't know what I'm doing but my thumbnail review is never put this s#%t on your airplane.

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I had to wet sand on bare balsa to get it off, we'll see if it gets warps.

Again, your results may vary, just one persons experience.

Jim
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Post  JPvelo Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:57 pm

I'm trying my hand at an adjustable trim tab using the tip weight box as a hard point to mount the adjustment rod. I'll keep you posted on the progress.

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Post  RknRusty Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:40 pm

Oh, that Micro Stan looks like a mess. Sorry you got that advice. How heavy does it seem compared to a tub of spackle?

I think the adjustable trim tab and the anchor point is a good idea. Hopefully you won't need it, but I usually seem to. I think every plane I have except the Shoestring and the Magnum(R.I.P) needs one. I carry several aluminum ones in my flight box of various sizes and degrees of deflection.
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Post  JPvelo Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:48 pm

Rusty,
The NS added .2oz to the airframe.
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Post  Ken Cook Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:50 pm

Nitro Stan is a excellent filler. It's not meant to be applied heavy or generously as it will not feather down to a edge.  It's a spot and ding filler. It's also meant to go over lacquer primed surfaces. When you wet sand you must be careful not to break through. This is why it's a good practice to have 5-6 coats of dope on and even more on areas that receive even further or harsher sanding, aka rib tops and wing tip areas. It shrinks a fair amount which is why it's not recommended for heavier applications. All residue must be completely removed using Sikkens or Prep-Sol . Adhesion of the top coat can be considerably compromised.
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Post  fredvon4 Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:40 pm

Ken beat me to it but yes the spot putties can be used for some areas after you have tried to expand the balsa back to shape with water and heat (my preferred method). Lot of auto part store products in the paint section can be exploited is used properly.

Dap or other dry wall Spackle has a place but can bee too porous for some finishes, this is where a small ding or divot can be filled with thin layers of the spot putty. You want several coats of nitrate, butyrate, or poly in the wood first to seal and create a bond-able surface. Unlike Spackle, the spot putty is much denser than the balsa and sanding becomes a problem if you used too much

When repairing auto panels using BONDO type fillers they usually have pin holes or a slight low spot after sanding..the spot putty is perfect to fill the low or problem area without having to mix up a new batch of two part Bondo....but it was intended to be just a skim coat with a spreader to fill in the very shallow void or pin hole(s)
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Post  getback Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:28 pm

Wow Jim can you paint any color over that or is it going to bee red , do you guys use regular spackle or some kind of lite stuff ? I haven't got that far along that I guess I care but, I have started trimming my finger nails before working with the soft balsa . The plane I am currently working on is C grade balsa and I notice that while sanding the wing corners down it wants to feather pretty bad ( cant get that smoothness ) like the softer stuff > Eric Leaves
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Post  JPvelo Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:02 am

Ken & Fred, thank you. Wish I would have known that sooner. I have 3 coats if dope over it and it's actually sanding out pretty nicely. It might come out ok, not great but ok.

Eric,
I usually use lightweight spackel as a filler, works great.

Jim
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Post  Ken Cook Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:58 am

Many of the lightweight spackle contains vinyl. One thing one needs to watch is that if doped over it doesn't soften it. I had some Red Devil lightweight that blistered when doped over. Many times when I need lightweight, I keep my standby which is talc preferably non perfumed and it's mixed into a slurry with clear dope. It sands beautifully but it takes multiple coats to get the job done. Bob Zambelli whom which flies with Rusty makes fillets using this method. They're not structural just cosmetic as it's a very weak mixture. I've used a gray similar product like Nitro Stan from Martin Senour which sanded down much easier.
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Post  getback Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:44 pm

Thanks Jim/Ken for the advice I am sure I will be changing the way I build while being on this forum has gave me a lot of new great ideas if I can just remember them and don't have to keep asking . Eric Turkey
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Post  roddie Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:02 pm

RknRusty wrote:
I think the adjustable trim tab and the anchor point is a good idea. Hopefully you won't need it, but I usually seem to. I think every plane I have except the Shoestring and the Magnum(R.I.P) needs one. I carry several aluminum ones in my flight box of various sizes and degrees of deflection.
Rusty

I've read here about trim-tabs before. How does the adjustment part function? I was trying to envision a way of doing it. What I was thinking; is a thin steel strip/tab mounted chordwise inside the wing, and extending out a slot in the T/E. A captive sheet-metal screw would thread through the inside center of the strip. Turning the screw in/out would cause the strip to bow in either direction. Is that thinking way too far outside the "tip-weight" box? Laughing

I like idea of the talc-filler that Ken mentioned. I'm curious if can be used as well with other finishes.. like maybe lacquer, by mixing it with some automotive type primer? Kinda' like thickening up the turkey gravy with some 10x flour!
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Post  Ken Cook Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:26 pm

If you ever used Sig sanding sealer, it's essentially what I described. I have found that whatever is in Sig stays suspended much longer than my method. Both products however can give a false sense when sanding due to the powdery residue left over from sanding. You really need to get the parts and hold them up to the light prior to color and inspect. Ken
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Post  JPvelo Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:36 pm

Roddie,

It will basically be a hinged aileron. I will run a piece of 4-40 all thread with an adjustable ball link on each end from the control horn to the weight box cover screw.

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Post  RknRusty Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:27 am

Roddie, I usually hope I don't need one, and then after I fly it and get someone else's eyes on upright and inverted flight, I pick one of the various size & angled aluminum ones in the box and Scotch tape it on with clear tape. They'll stay on for the life of one of my planes Lol.

If it's fixed flaps, I let it overhang the TE. But on flapped models, if it's a minor trim, I tape it to the wing right in front of the hinge line. My Cardinal has a big brass one on the flap, but it needs a lot of trimming as it is now. It came to me that way.
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Post  RknRusty Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:16 pm

You can also notch the TE of a fixed flap plane and insert a soft copper or aluminum tab. Pre-bend it first, then set it back to zero and insert it into the TE so it's flush, and it can be covered with thin balsa and painted or Monokoted to hide it. Then if it's needed it can be bent. Not as professional as Jim's, but it suits my redneck sensibilities. My Ukey has a hidden one like that, and I didn't even notice it for a long time.
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Post  JPvelo Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:13 am

Well, I guess we can call it polyspaned and nitrostaned. She ain't pretty but she's all mine !
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Post  roddie Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:14 am

I like it Jim! Nice looking model. It's a Mustang... Thumbs Up It gets automatic kudos! Have you done any more with the trim-tab arrangement? I want to learn more about that.
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Post  JPvelo Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:57 am

Thanks Roddie!

No progress on the trim tab yet. Right now I'm focusing on getting paint done whine I still have a place to do it. My wife and I are closing on a house dec. 28 and it has a carport, not an enclosed garage so getting a good paint job will be a little more work then. I'll have my hands full with home improvement projects so I don't know when this thing will get done.

Jim
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Post  Marleysky Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:16 am

Jim-  don't worry it looks like it should turn out fine. Beauty is only skin deep, so ya just gotta get some good "skin" painted on.  Whoa, closing on a house, your gonna have a ton of honeydo's, for sure. Wish you luck in getting it finished before the move.
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Post  roddie Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:23 am

JPvelo wrote:Thanks Roddie!

No progress on the trim tab yet. Right now I'm focusing on getting paint done whine I still have a place to do it. My wife and I are closing on a house dec. 28 and it has a carport, not an enclosed garage so getting a good paint job will be a little more work then. I'll have my hands full with home improvement projects so I don't know when this thing will get done.

Jim

Jim.. Congratulations on the closing. I hope the weather cooperates in your time-window. It's all good. Relocation helps you get re-acquainted with your tools/model stock. I am sure you'll get a work-space set-up for this Winter. Consider it a "home-improvement" project. It's a passion of yours.. and should be included in the master-plan. Smile
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Post  getback Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:18 pm

Looks OK to me Jim, with the right color I think it will iron out to a good finish and as long as it fly's good then what the hell . How far away is your move taking you ? Wish you the beat on the new home there's always something that you just don't like , luckily ii am pretty easy going with the house thing as long as its warm and keeps me dry. lol! getback Cool
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Post  JPvelo Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:38 pm

Eric,

I'm moving down the street about two miles, staying in central Phoenix for now.
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Post  JPvelo Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:29 pm

I reached into my huge stash of post wedding tissue paper and came out with pink!

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Post  JPvelo Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:15 am

I've always mixed up my own sanding sealer using aerogloss clear dope. Franks Hobby House was out of clear so bought aerogloss sanding sealer instead. Amazing stuff, way better sealer than my home brew.
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Post  RknRusty Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:56 am

That's the stuff my flying friend Bob the builder says has been his favorite for years. Too bad they don't make the colors any more. Has it got a particulate suspension in it? He told me I could use the clear mixed with talc too.

Hey, that pink matches the red goop you put on it the other day.
Rusty

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