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Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  Ken Cook on Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:25 am

I meant to say tank compartment door screws. Ken
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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  RknRusty on Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:16 am

Ken Cook wrote:              I meant to say tank compartment door screws. Ken
Ah, yes, I made new tabs for the cover last night. I'll make sure their tips are ground flush when fully inserted. I had to be careful with that on the Nobler's cowl screws.
Rusty

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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  RknRusty on Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:06 pm

Well the old bird is all fixed but for the covering. I'd imagined I had plenty of silver Monokote, but I must've used it all up making eagle wings and stuff for my Osprey, so now I have a pile of big scraps. I started cutting silver parts to cover the belly and bottom wing roots and it'll look best on the underside. My wife always complains i need to decorate the bottom. And I've seen how it really stands out during wingovers, so silver will show nicely. I made templates from the covering that I had ripped off, for all the curves. It looks like I'm going to have a patchwork of colors. I have a lot of red. and Navy blue, light blue, white and clear purple. bleah. Hmmm. A red, yeller, silver and black plane, I guess. Maybe I'll paint the cowl red. Glad we don't have beauty points at H'ville.

When I started getting tired of cutting, tracing, and throwing away exacto blades, I decided it would be easier to silkspan it and get a Preval sprayer to shoot it with yellow. But it's about to start raining for four or five 5 days, possibly a foot of rain over the next two, and it'll probably come onto the shop floor. I could probably paper it tomorrow and paint it next week. Looks like Sunday is a wash anyway.
Rusty


Last edited by RknRusty on Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  RknRusty on Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:48 pm

Update:
I called Bob Zambelli and talked about silkspanning it and decided to go that route. I found a bunch of silkspan, the largest whole sheet is about 18x24 and came from the Sterling Yak-9 kit. It's brown, but I pulled a piece apart in both directions and it seems almost as strong as the white, also shown in the picture.

I have a 3.5 ounce jar of clear Aerogloss. I can thin it with MEK to stretch it for the whole job, at least a couple of coats would be fine. I forgot to ask Bob, is 50/50 too thin for brushing? Should the first coat to apply the silkspan be thicker?

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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  Ken Cook on Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:00 am

Rusty, thinned coats are preferable for the initial wood coats. This is going to require a minimum of 3 coats on the wood. The coats will start to shine which is typically a sign to install the silkspan. I would thin it enough to allow fast brushing and fast drying. If your brush is dragging, it needs to be thinner. 60% thinner/40% clear. You can wet the silkspan prior to installing. Brush directly over the wet silkspan which will more than likely blush the clear almost immediately, if not, it will look milky in areas. Rub the areas down with your finger. It needs not be wet being installed over solid or planked areas. I mist it to shrink out any wrinkles as I'm certain the Sterling silkspan looks like it needs to be ironed. Continue a coat a day until the silkspan builds a shine. From start to finish, your going to have a minimum of 5 coats on the silkspan . The attachment coat should be the same consistency as your build up coats. You can add talcum powder to the clear to thicken it up if need be for a smoother coat if your not using auto primer. I don't use primer just clear. What will be your finish over top? That's the biggest problem with Aerogloss. It doesn't get along well with others.
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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  RknRusty on Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:18 am

Bob seemed to think Rustoleum enamel with a Preval sprayer would be fine. If not I suppose I can switch to Polycrylic.

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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  gossie on Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:08 am

I've found RUSTOLIUM works well up to 25% nitro......I've used it out of a rattle can.

Preval sprayer. Have had one of those for 30 odd years. Are they rare these days?
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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  RknRusty on Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:18 am

gossie wrote:I've found RUSTOLIUM works well up to 25% nitro......I've used it out of a rattle can.

Preval sprayer.   Have had one of those for 30 odd years.  Are they rare these days?
No, Gossie, Lowes sells them. I've been wanting to try it. I'm a long time Rustoleum rattle can user. The question of the day is whether it'll play nice with Aerogloss. I've never shot Rustoleum over it.
Rusty

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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  RknRusty on Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:36 am

I need to add this before any more of y'all's generous advice is added... This paint job doesn't have to look good, though I am usually vain for my planes. At this late date, I don't care if it's butt ugly if I can get a shapely pattern out of it. And a reasonable resistance to fuel penetration. All I need is about ten flights out of it before I move on to a new plane. It would be nice to have a pretty one, but this will be its third contest, so after this it's officially a beater. It brought home a 2nd place Int. in May. Maybe this time, 1st??? Maybe, but I'll probably have to beat Wayne and his profile IDS.

Thanks all. I'll be getting on it this evening.
Rusty

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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  RknRusty on Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:15 pm

One more piece of silkspan on the nose in the morning, and she'll be ready to get yellow paint. It ain't going to get the standard two weeks either. This Rustoleum fast-drying Safety Yellow is different, I think. It contains MEK, acetone and xylene. On my test board, it went over Aerogloss with no ill reaction at all, and dried while the shop was flooded. I'll give it a couple of days under heat. I think I've done the repairs with a reasonably small weight penalty. I don't think it'll be more than two ounces heavier if that much. The fiberglassed and reinforced nose seems pretty strong. I'll find out soon.

I'll conclude this overly long thread with a picture of the finished product here, and the next time you see it will be a flight report.

Thanks for all the help, and thanks also to all of you who read about it and followed my work. I hope I posted something useful and interesting.
Rusty

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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  RknRusty on Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:41 pm



Pretty damn good color match isn't it. The belly is silver. The paint over silkspan looks really smooth. I'm glad I took that extra step when I could have chosen to just hose it with yellow reckless abandon.
Next: Cover the black bare spot on the wing, mount engine, crank, fly..

It was way more work than I imagined, but I think I did good work. It's solid and I'm sure it's airworthy. Y'all can feel free to cross your fingers though.
Rusty

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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  larrys4227 on Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:04 am

Nicely done rusty!! Hope it flies well for you .... let us know!!
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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  RknRusty on Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:23 am

larrys4227 wrote:Nicely done rusty!!  Hope it flies well for you .... let us know!!
You know I will! Thanks, Larry. I'll bolt the engine on it today and glue some tabs on it to screw the cowl to. It sticks out about 7/16" longer than before. When I fly it first it will probably be without the cowl.

I brought it into the house last night since it rained 3" last night and water came into the shop. The ground is so saturated, the yard pooled up into an ankle deep pond and I had to shop vac the floor. After drying I can see some tissue seams on the sides. I only did a cursory sanding job since appearance was bottom of the list, and another coat of paint would have hidden it. I'll weigh it and decide whether to shoot some more paint to pretty it up. I think I might like it heavier. Stunters are funny that way, sometimes more wing loading is better up to a point. My horsepower is not an issue.

It has until Friday before I crank it. I'll be heading into Huntersville without having flown in a month. Since the day I wrecked the Nobler. I'd have to look at my flight reports to see exactly when the last time I flew a pattern was. All of my lines and handle settings are mixed up too.
Rusty

EDIT: September 17th was the last day I flew a Stunter. Mercy. Maybe I'll fly better. I should do some turning to hone my balance and fly some patterns in my head. I always fly so well in there, Lol.

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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  getback on Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:55 am

I think it looks GREAT Rusty , The color was a good match , And a month out is nothing compared to my almost a year it is amazing how the time just keeps on going and going without realizing it Embarassed If you didn't get those socket head caps I have some well never mind there 4.40X1.. That want work there 049 prop screws . Any ways Best of Skill to you we'll bee watching Popcorn Popcorn Eric Smoking
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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  RknRusty on Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:02 am

Eric, the .049 prop screws are 5-40. But I'm good on hardware, thanks for thinking of me.
Rusty

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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  RknRusty on Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:01 pm

I suppose I should close this one out. August 20 is when I started this thread. Ran the engine 3 times October 15, the day before loading up for Huntersville. Some 2 week repair huh. It always seems simple until I dig into it. But it was a successful repair and it made its first test flight in Huntersville on Saturday October 17.

It flew well. My Tom Morris cable handle re-adjustments were very close, and her CG was perfect. When the engine cut, it continued flying flat and level, which is my benchmark for balance. When I get to be a super expert Rolling Eyes , maybe I'll fly more tail heavy, but for now it's good, and I was surprised at how much harder it pulled on the lines. I may need to move the leadouts further forward if it feels too heavy next time out. It may just be because it now weighs in at 50 ounces, 4.5 more than before. That's a heavy Oriental. And 3/8" longer in the nose. I had to make a skirt to extend the cowl. Seems like the same prop works for it, so far. So I'm happy I took my time and did a thorough job, the airframe seems very strong now. When the engine runs, the spring wiggler OS needle is dead still, just like the engine is not running.

But during the test flight, the .40fp went lean upon inverted flight and didn't recover when righted, and shut off at 1/2 tank and would not re-start. I, myself, was not running full speed that day, but had flown the Ukey very well in profile, however was not up to troubleshooting, so parked it for the rest of the weekend. I was a bit disappointed not to be trying to win Intermediate with it, but them's the breaks.

When I got home, I flushed a substantial amount of fibrous material out of the filter and parked it ever since then. I wanted to fly this weekend, but my shoulder and elbow are still healing after the Ukey-Yank during my 3rd and last attempt at an official flight, which I've already whined about enough in my Huntersville report. Tomorrow I will do some more tank flushes and engine runs with a finer mesh filter to see if I pick up any more debris. When it comes up clean, I'll declare it airworthy again. If I feel up to it this weekend, I'll fly it at the fort. If not, I'll just fly light planes like the Yak-9 and Shoestring until I'm ready.

So thanks for watching the repair thread, and thanks Ken for making me a new tank. I really like the built-on external plumbing for the vent and uniflow. No more worry about fuel siphoning through the uniflow while it sits fueled in cue waiting to fly.

I'll give y'all the results in my flight report when I'm up to flying it.
Till then,
Rusty




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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  Ken Cook on Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:19 am

Rusty, there really shouldn't be debris in the tank. The rear end cap went on last and I do a thorough wash with lacquer thinner. It gets wire brushed where I can reach and rinsed again. Not saying it's impossible, but I would dismiss the fuel filter for your flights. Filter your fuel and then place it in the tank and try again. Did you replace every piece of fuel tubing after the crash? If not, I would replace it all. The engine acting like a tank height problem could only be affected by the engine height. If your suggesting the r/c mount is in the identical location of the beams, the engine will need to be shimmed up and off of the beams. A 1/16" shim will make a difference. I don't recall the uniflow pipe as I didn't disturb that but soldered it back onto the pickup tube. If need be, we could take it apart once again and lower the uniflow internally and try it again. Obviously it can be overdone but it's easier to shim the tank up in it's entirety rather than raise the engine. I have found some issues with the ARF where the beams were not exiting the firewall square to the firewall. This may be the problem here. Seeing that your directly bolted to the firewall, the engine could be slightly downward due to the firewall and or the mount. By the time it projects off of the firewall, it could be pointing downward. I don't know without looking if the thrust line of the engine is the same incidence line as the wing. If so, point the prop at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock and triangulate the dimensions to the trailing edge from prop tip to hinge line. What I'm suggesting here is that you may need to use the Brodak offset engine wedges, and shim the front of the lug up and leave the rear of the lug at 0 deg. This could possibly require the 2 deg wedge. Drill the wedges to your engine's footprint and leave them under the lugs. Ken





When you run uniflow, do you use it to the atmosphere or do you have muffler pressure hooked to that pipe? I would explore both options.
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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  RknRusty on Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:57 am

Ken, I've totally put my foot in my mouth. I apologize, and I certainly did not intend to place the blame on you for the crud I likely introduced into the system. I may easily have snagged a rag and gotten bits of it into a fuel tube, especially considering the rush I was in to get this thing running. I did use all new line. In fact with the built in vent tubes, the only plumbing is the line to the engine and the line to the exhaust nipple. Both are filtered. For now, I'll eliminate the fuel feed nipple. The only reason the uni-pressure line is filtered is because I drilled 3 additional holes in the tongue muffler and wanted to make sure any aluminum I may have missed cleaning out would not make it into the tank. I typically run with muffler pressure.

The mounting surface on the beams is the same height as the original beams, I was meticulous about measuring that, and the same aluminum bearers are between the engine and the beam. The location of the needle hole in the cowl would betray any difference there, and it lines up just the same as before. I'll re-check the tank height. With the compartment upside down and open, the tank is resting on the same cushion as it was before. The only thing I changed is I added two sticks between the compartment cap, spanning the length of the tank, to make sure it's evenly compressed when closed. This is because the tank sits farther aft than the original configuration.

The biggest concern after it cut off in Huntersville is that it would not re-start. It would prime and wet my finger covering the venturi. I've swapped and checked glow plugs and they are fine. I'll look at it today and see if I've missed anything. Using a string to the prop tips, I'll measure the thrust angles. I'll take it out to the fort this weekend and see how it flies. It feels like I'll be back in action for light arm work by then.
Rusty

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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  fredvon4 on Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:53 pm

Rusty

Don't know your prop selection but for using one as the reference for up down thrust line or side left right thrust line use a larger than normal prop, new, preferably wood and one you know tracks on plane. I have seen the tips of APC or other nylon/plastic/composite blades be off in track by 1/8" or more once used

On my combat planes that is the method I set the thrust to be in line with wing center...I have a very heavy and true 14" wood prop and non stretchy string measure to the TE with prop at 12 and 6 o'clock, and then horizontally 9 and 3 out to the ends of the TE...However I do not use triginometry math to figure the out thrust angels...with the string I use the TLAR to get between 2 and 3 degrees of out thrust and zero pitch thrust
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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  Ken Cook on Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:12 pm

Rusty, I didn't assume you were blaming me. I just am curious as to what kind of debris and how much. The uniflow pipe dictates tank height. I probably should've paid more attn in there, but the reality is that they hitchhike together with the uniflow soldered to the side of the pickup. Seeing that the high points of the tubing radius are essentially touching one another it's very possible that one or the other slipped on itself during soldering. This can be fixed.

            I have to ask this stupid question. You did fill the tank through the proper tube correct? If not, this can lead to a short tank and the symptoms your describing can very well mean the tank is out of fuel. I'm not trying to prove you wrong, it's just that I've done this myself. Ken


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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  cox24711 on Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:16 pm

Rusty it looks great!!!! (a lot better than my repairs)
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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  RknRusty on Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:27 pm

Fred, I usually use the same blade and rotate the prop when I measure to each side. In  fact I have a 12" one bladed Zinger that I used when I was installing the wing on my Osprey.

Ken, if you don't ever ask a stupid question, I won't have as many opportunities to give stupid answers Lol.

When I fill the tank, I uncap the OF tube and push my 5 oz. syringe of fuel into the uniflow vent and it usually dribbles out of the OF right as the syringe empties. After the engine quit in flight and I de-fueled it, I pulled nearly half a syringe full back out of the uni-vent, holding the OB wing pointed down, tail tipping down.

The first time I ever filled it, I just assumed the front-most of the two external tubes was the OF, guessing it was the way it would be easiest to build(that plus the uni is typically on top while sitting on the wheels). I'm pretty sure I guessed right. Bench running, I got 8+ minute runs every time, lifting and lowering to listen to it break, and holding it up and out for the last minute to pull it dry.
Rusty

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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  RknRusty on Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:28 pm

Thanks, Greg. But remember, pretty don't make it fly.
Rusty

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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  RknRusty on Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:49 pm

I just want to add, all you guys are great. I'd never be where I am right now without y'all. Thanks.
Rusty

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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

Post  Marleysky on Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:19 pm

Rusty -  Congratulations on the completion of the rebuild. I hope you are healing from that wild jerk of your shoulder from the crash. That looked painful.  Was just wondering if you had selected a new name for the rebuilt Oriental?  Or do you wait until after the maiden to officially:flying:  rename a aircraft?
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Re: Broken nose, all fixed... Final Installment(s)

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