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Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

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Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  larrys4227 on Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:46 pm

Howdy folks ..... before I go any further, I thought I'd ask your suggestions ....

First of all .... I hate plastic coverings!!!!  Mad Mad Mad

Couple weeks ago, my Vampire started undressing itself in the air. By the time I landed, a huge chunk underneath had ripped off.

Tonight, I decided to start on it .....

My plan is to clean it all up, and then silk/dope and spray with Rustoleum.

Taking the covering off, heres what I'm dealing with.  A HUGE MESS!

I can't sand this, and I certainly can't pick at it .... I' ll be here for a month doing this.  I had one plane before that this happened, and I used ALOT of acetone and a couple rolls of paper towels. The new covering kinda/sorta stuck ... however, what the acetone did was push it all into the balsa.  I'd like to dope it but the dope probably won't penetrate into the balsa with the sticky gooey mess the acetone makes.

I'm open to suggestions ..... I'd rather not smash the plane on the bench and be done with it .... it flies pretty darn good and is my OTS plane.

I'm all ears .... fire away ..... Tired w/ Coffee Read Tired w/ Coffee Read

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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  TDbandit on Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:16 pm

if you can find it try K2R spray it on and it will draw the oil out through capillary action and applying heat helps it work since the heat helps pull the oil out, depending on how soaked it is may take several applications. (Bandit)
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  TDbandit on Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:21 pm

My bad misread it sorry Sad However if you have an oil soaked spot the K2R works. the adhesive is tough to remove. i've used a heat gun to soften it up but it still is a pain. what kind of covering was it? (Bandit)
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  larrys4227 on Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:42 pm

Ultracote .... another plane did the same. The clear plastic lifts off, leaving all the color behind.
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  TDbandit on Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:02 pm

larrys4227 wrote:Ultracote .... another plane did the same.  The clear plastic lifts off, leaving all the color behind.
I hate to say this but in my experience, there is no quick way at doing this. What I have done in the past is use a heat gun or my iron to heat the film up till it softens the adhesive then I peel then heat again and peel. if done right, it will take the adhesive with it. It's a slow process i'm afraid. also any of the adhesive left behind again can be heated and some tape dabbed on to it and most of the time the colored adhesive will stick to the tape and lift off with the tape then carefully sand it. The amount you have on that wing is gonna take a while but if you keep to it it will be ok
Others may have other more suitable methods so just don't take my word for it Hope this helps! (Bandit)
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  RknRusty on Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:21 pm

I'd take the lazy man's way. After getting any bits of the plastic off, just let the wood stay full of tinted glue, and re-cover it with another dark colored iron on. I prefer Monokote, but it's all glue and will probably be stuck even tighter than the first time around. I know you don't want to do that, but it'll get you flying soon, and a good 'kote job can look pretty cool. An ordinary 'kote job makes it look good enough.
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  pkrankow on Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:14 pm

Deal with any oil soaking.  Alcohol and cornstarch is one way, takes several applications and draws the oil into the cornstarch.  Follow this up with thinned dope on the affected areas.

If you are keeping the blue, just cover it.

Try ironing on some cotton cloth, and pulling that off while warm.

Even with silk/dope I don't expect you to have problems from the adhesive other than color showing if you go with a light color.

Phil
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  larrys4227 on Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:02 am

Thanks for all the suggestions! There isn't any oil soaking, so thank goodness I don't have to deal with that. I did try some heat in a small spot ... results weren't impressive.

I've been thinking about cleaning another small spot with acetone. The blue is going to sink into the balsa, but a majority will come off. Then apply some dope and silk .... see how well it sticks. Maybe try another spot without trying to remove the blue at all.

I certainly can't make it any worse .... lol! lol!
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:52 am

X2 on Monokote. I have several models covered with it from 35/40 years ago and they still look good. Try covering a small part of the Ultracote with Monokote to see if it sticks. It should. For trim, use second and third colors ironed on. Good luck.

Bob
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  Mark Boesen on Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:52 am

lacquer thinner and a small rag, comes right off. However the thought would be remove as much as possible (weight) and paint wing a dark color.
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  fredvon4 on Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:04 am

Larry the other side looks like it is still good

If you have a piece of the original color I would leave the blue adhesive alone, paint a stripe of Sig StixIt, (heat activated) glue all around the perimeter of the LE, TE, each rib, and edge of wing tip, let that dry well and then recover with the original covering...

I use Sig StixIt a lot because I also have had the same problem you have. Worst I had was with Brodak Black... The glue and pigment seem to attach well to the balsa but de-laminate fairly fast from the plastic covering....very damned aggravating.... I suspect that some of this stuff I put down too cold or too hot (I don't know which)

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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  larrys4227 on Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:24 am

Yes, the other side is still fairly good, but the seams are lifting and if I don't deal with it then its going to start undressing itself as well.

Not too worried about the color .... the wing will be repainted (or coated --- UGGHH!!) with as close to the same color as what was on there.

I must be doing something wrong in applying Mono/Ultra coverings. All my planes that have it are CONSTANT maintenance. Planes that have multiple layers in trims ... always coming off. My hats off to you guys that are happy with it and have no problems. I am soooo done with it.

This morning, I tried an experiment with dope and silk. Before leaving for work ... the results look promising. I'll know more tonight after its had a chance to cure up all day ....

Acetone/thinner, gloves and a bunch of rags seem to be in my future...
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  TDbandit on Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:01 am

When dealing with iron on covering (I also prefer Monocote) is to make sure as much balsa dust is removed and the correct heat range is used. different coverings have different temp ranges. also the use of trim solvent helps too around the edges or a trim iron.
It's a good idea to have an iron thermometer to help set the heat range properly. To help with the peeling when you lay it down ,pay attention to the direction of the seam and make sure the top edge of the seam is pointing away from the direction of the air stream and not into it that way it helps prevent air from getting under the seam if it starts to lift. with patching, use round or rounded edge patches. lifting (Peeling) almost always begins at a sharp corner and the rounded edges help prevent lifting by giving  a larger surface for adhesion. With trim designs I prefer covering the model in a base color and then using lustercote paint to apply the design Hope this helps (Bandit)
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  pkrankow on Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:16 pm

Lacking a thermometer...boil some water.

Set the iron so the face is upright and level.  Sprinkle some clean water on it.  When the water is boiling when the iron clicks OFF, but not boiling when the iron clicks ON mark the dial 212F/100C.

It is one point, and very close to where most coverings function.

With Top Flite Monokote on most colors there is a color change - darkening - at the glue activation temperature.  On some colors it is hard to see as the change is slight.  White and black do not seem to show this effect at all, Yellow is pretty pronounced becoming several shades darker.  The color returns to what it was as it cools.

I have only used red Ultracote once and I remember this effect happening.

Phil
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  Surfer_kris on Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:49 pm

larrys4227 wrote:
I must be doing something wrong in applying Mono/Ultra coverings.  All my planes that have it are CONSTANT maintenance.  Planes that have multiple layers in trims ... always coming off.  My hats off to you guys that are happy with it and have no problems.  I am soooo done with it.

Sounds like you are using a too low temperature. It is important to have a good covering iron with temperature regulation. I never use the sock on mine, that lowers the temperature too much, just use the iron directly and make sure you get the film hot right at the seam. If this doesn't work, then seal the edges with glue before the very first flight.

Here is my latest covering job on a .10 "Stick-style" (a swedish kit called "Zipp"):

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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  larrys4227 on Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:18 pm

Surfer_kris wrote:
Here is my latest covering job on a .10 "Stick-style" (a swedish kit called "Zipp"):


Wow ... that is one beautiful finishing job!! Nice!!
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  larrys4227 on Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:27 pm

Ok ... like I said earlier this morning, I tried alittle experiment with silk/dope.

First, I tried just putting a layer of dope right on the wings leading edge.  Just a small spot, but since it was 50/50 dope/thinner, the thinner made a real mess.  Immediately wiped it off.

Then I'm thinking ... lets see what happens applying some silk without a base.  Had a small strip of silk .... wet it ... and layed it on.  I brushed 2 coats of dope/thinner right onto the silk, trying to make sure it was pushed through the silk onto the blue coating.

When I got home .... I was impressed.  The silk was really stuck down to the wing.  Grabbing the end of silk, I could almost lift the plane right off the bench.  Nice!!

-------------------------------------

Here is picture of the silk/dope when I got home .... and then another picture after I tore the silk off.  The silk/dope actually lifted the blue covering goop off too.



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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  larrys4227 on Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:30 pm

I took Mark Boeson's advice, and picked up some lacquer thinner.  Have done this before with acetone, with ok results.

I will have to say his tip was mucho better.

2/3 quart of thinner ... a roll of paper towels .... and an hour and a half of my time .....

I'm pretty darn pleased .....  this wing is gonna dope right up nicely!!

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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  getback on Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:45 am

WOW that done the job there have to remember that one , I was working on a old silk removal some time back and it was a pain picking at it for ever , Looks like your on your way now , getback Very Happy
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  RknRusty on Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:33 pm

That's looking good Larry. I must congratulate you on sticking to the job amongst all of us Monokote hacks' urgings.
I sometimes fly with the guy that built and still has the Vampire prototype, I think with a sparker in it. He flew it in OTS this past May. A "real" covering job will properly honor its beginnings
Rusty

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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  larrys4227 on Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:48 pm

RknRusty wrote:That's looking good Larry. I must congratulate you on sticking to the job amongst all of us Monokote hacks' urgings.
I sometimes fly with the guy that built and still has the Vampire prototype, I think with a sparker in it. He flew it in OTS this past May. A "real" covering job will properly honor its beginnings
Rusty

Must be kinda cool to fly with the likes of fellows who hang at your circle .... all I get are fire ants and the occasional RC bird fly over. LOL!!

Oh yes ... gonna stick to the silk/dope. Obviously it is something I am doing with the 'kotes to make it so much work, but every time I cover something with dope .... it comes out oh so nice. Plus it brings back memories when I was growing up ... I really do like the smell. Smile And my wing tips come out perfect every time .... Laughing

I brushed the initial coats of dope to the bare balsa tonight .... tomorrow I'll sand and then apply the silk.

And my wife talked me into keeping the inboard wing as is .... she likes the graphic and the lifting is only minor, so she agreed to help me put a strip of tape along the TE. She says "We'll get it nice and straight, and nobody will know its there". I like her enthusiasm.

I as well have a can of Rustoleum that is almost a perfect color match to the ultracoated wing .... well, at least the CAP is almost a perfect match,.
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  pkrankow on Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:48 pm

The graphic can likely be saved and put back on with some spray glue, or repurchased. I like your wife's idea better to try to save the covering and do less work.

Phil
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  RknRusty on Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:19 pm

Surfer_kris wrote:Sounds like you are using a too low temperature. It is important to have a good covering iron with temperature regulation. I never use the sock on mine, that lowers the temperature too much, just use the iron directly and make sure you get the film hot right at the seam. If this doesn't work, then seal the edges with glue before the very first flight.

Here is my latest covering job on a .10 "Stick-style" (a swedish kit called "Zipp"):

I agree about the sock, I never use one, just careful not to scab up the teflon coating on the iron's face. I find every color of Monokote to need slightly different temps, as well different batches of the same color. I almost never use a heat gun either, as it's hard to be precise between shrinking and gluing. I am going to learn the dope methods soon, since I have a project that must feel it would be a minor insult to plasticize.

Your planes always look good, Kris. You have another one that also has the engine rotated, don't you? What's your reason for doing that?

Rusty

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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  Mark Boesen on Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:14 pm

https://vortexhobbies.com/coverite-pocket-thermometer-covr2410-p-88213.html?pk_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=CKvX_vWazccCFZGJaQodGoEBow

-Looks like these are still out there, almost a must have.
-If in doubt, go hotter.
-Don't waste money on econo or light weight covering unless weight really is an issue. Goldberg Ultracoat use to be the best, followed closely by Monokote...don't know whats out there now.
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  larrys4227 on Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:05 pm

Alittle more progress today .... got the top/bottom of the wing silked. Now need to start on the 4-5 coats of dope.



----------------------------------------------

Heres the Rustoluem color I'm going to use ... tough to see on a pic. Not perfect, but close enough I think.

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