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Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  larrys4227 on Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:38 pm

First of all, I'd really like to thank the forum for allowing me to document my little adventure here.  It's fun to be able to share whats on my bench, or even my thoughts, with like-minded individuals. Thanks to everyone that contributed to the thread as well.  We all do things abit differently (thats the spice of life, right?!), and although I have strong feelings against plastic coverings, I really appreciate everyones input.

Maybe the next guy coming along searching through threads will find this all helpful .... Smile

Now, onto the conclusion ..... it's finished!  But now I have to let it bake for a week or two in the back of my truck to fully cure the Rustoleum.  Then I get to fly it again!!

I am very pleased with how this turned out.  5 coats of dope .... sanding well between coats 3-4 and 5.  I also tried something different.  When I applied the masking tape to the root ....  I then applied just a light coat of dope against the seam of the tape to try to prevent the paint from soaking under. I just recently read about this .... probably old news to you veteran dopers. Haha!

Anyway, it turned out amazing.  The paint line is absolutely perfect.  The pic shows it bleeding alittle ... but its the picture.  Even my wife was amazed how unblemished the paint line was.  Nifty little trick ... Smile

The paint is just a tad lighter than the plastic side .... but its sooo close to a match, I'm really pleased.

Thanks again everybody!!



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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  pkrankow on Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:03 pm

That came out really good!

The hard part is waiting 14 days for the paint to cure fully.

Phil
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  NEW222 on Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:27 pm

That's a great job there. And that paint is indeed very close, like the paint was made to match the Monokote.
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  getback on Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:52 am

WOW Larry came out really well came out nice and tight / the color you couldn't ask for better . Good Job. Eric RC Plane
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  Ken Cook on Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:10 pm

Larry, I think it looks great. I have to question why the enamel other than a direct color to what you had. That makes fixing a hole or repair very problematic due to not being able to dope a patch over the enamel due to incompatibility. I've sprayed dope over enamel with somewhat success due to spraying it with initial light coats but brushing over it always alligators the underlying enamel. Seeing your very pro efficient with dope, why not dope to the end? I've sprayed 2 part auto clear over dope and when it came time to fix, the dope also attacked the auto clear, not to the same level as enamel though. I was just curious . Either or, your plane looks great and I'm certain giving it some care will be very rewarding with some great flights. Ken
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  RknRusty on Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:13 pm

Larry, that was worth every bit of the effort you put into it. I promise I'm going to be doping fabric over this winter. I know I won't be at a loss for help. I have a thick stack of notes in Notepad that I've cut and pasted from CEF.

The first thing I always do when setting up a new computer is put Notepad front and center. It's the most used tool in the box. I use it when posting long stories in case the power blips or I dumb-thumb the keyboard.... sorry, i'm off topic...
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  pkrankow on Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:05 pm

Ken Cook wrote:              Larry, I think it looks great. I have to question why the enamel other than a direct color to what you had. That makes fixing a hole or repair very problematic due to not being able to dope a patch over the enamel due to incompatibility. I've sprayed dope over enamel with somewhat success due to spraying it with initial light coats but brushing over it always alligators the underlying enamel. Seeing your very pro efficient with dope, why not dope to the end? I've sprayed 2 part auto clear over dope and when it came time to fix, the dope also attacked the auto clear, not to the same level as enamel though. I was just curious . Either or, your plane looks great and I'm certain giving it some care will be very rewarding with some great flights. Ken

This is a good point, Dope over enamel, over dope will make a mess.

Phil
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  larrys4227 on Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:29 pm

Ken Cook wrote:              Larry, I think it looks great. I have to question why the enamel other than a direct color to what you had. That makes fixing a hole or repair very problematic due to not being able to dope a patch over the enamel due to incompatibility. I've sprayed dope over enamel with somewhat success due to spraying it with initial light coats but brushing over it always alligators the underlying enamel. Seeing your very pro efficient with dope, why not dope to the end? I've sprayed 2 part auto clear over dope and when it came time to fix, the dope also attacked the auto clear, not to the same level as enamel though. I was just curious . Either or, your plane looks great and I'm certain giving it some care will be very rewarding with some great flights. Ken


Hey Ken -- Definitely good points. Repairs to Rust over dope are troublesome ... I've had 2 planes done this way.  One is deceased, the other is still flying.  It's a simple red and white pattern and ironically, the best repair method I've found for holes is a small mono/ultracote plastic patch.  

The vampire I chose to do this way ... basically get it done and off the bench.  I've got 2 other projects I'm working on and excited about .... and the Vampire issue came up suddenly.  Coupled with that .... the end of October is the only contest per year in my area, and although I'm not a competitive person, I was seriously considering entering OTS. I doubt they'll have a Beginner class, so it was my only real spot to 'participate'.  So it became a priority to fix fast and get it off the bench,  I still have to wait before I can fly it .... 2 more weekends.  Then I'll have 2-3 weekends to practice.  In the meantime, I can get back to the projects I was working on.

At least I have half a roll of the original Ultracote blue .... If I get a hole, a fix is quick.  Holes I can deal with .... entire sheets of plastic undressing from the plane in mid-air is quite another. LOLOLOL!!

The 2 projects (Lil Jumping Bean and Prowler) will be 100% dope .... matter of fact, the Jumpin Bean is a practice plane for the color combo and finish for the Prowler.  I don't want to mess up the Prowler .... and you guys here at CEF turned me on to the 'Bean. The practice plane WAS going to be a Shark 402 .... cause I need that for ANOTHER project .... but the Bean caught my attention.

Sorry for the wind storm ... Smile .... but yes, you are right about the repair problems.  All my NEW planes will be 100% dope for pretty much that very reason.
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  Ken Cook on Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:50 am

I never flew OTS.  I like the era, the planes but the maneuvers are somewhat difficult for me to remember. The maneuvers are fairly  easy, but the order and the amount of maneuvers throws me way off. Our club has many that fly OTS and I love seeing the planes. Here's a picture of one of our senior members and club founder Harry Freeland https://www.facebook.com/PhillyFliersCL/photos/pb.513140418756097.-2207520000.1441440017./901618669908268/?type=3&theater . Unfortunately, Harry passed away three weeks ago. Harry was a excellent builder in the hobby specializing in free flight. Harry always finished in clear using Jap tissue for decorations. He would always tell you how many stars he installed on a plane. This Chief is a great example. He did several others and many of our members fly Harry's planes. Certain designs excel in OTS. While many planes are OTS compliant, most fly the ones that work. Typically the Humongous, Jamison special, Yates Dragon, Ringmaster. The Vampire is a neat plane. I love the looks, the thicker than normal wing for that era and the wider chord. As I mentioned, your plane looks perfect. One wouldn't be able to tell from your beginning pictures to what you have now. You did a great job on that. If you do have the ability to go to a contest, I would suggest by all means do it. Take a camera and post some pics. Many here can benefit from color and trim schemes and also from pitbox and equipment setups. Ken
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  KariFS on Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:09 am

[quote="RknRusty"]
Surfer_kris wrote:
Your planes always look good, Kris. You have another one that also has the engine rotated, don't you? What's your reason for doing that?

I guess Kris missed your question Smile I suppose the reason for tilting the engine is that now it is in a position where the exhaust outlet is as far from the fuselage as possible and not blowing right into the wing as it probably would if the cylinder was pointing straight up.

And yes, that is a good looking plane Thumbs Up

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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  larrys4227 on Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:24 am

Ahh yes ... The Philly Fliers. I've actually liked and following that FB page ... and I do recall seeing that 'starred' Humongus. I dont think I'll ever be able to finish a plane like that ... Smile .... but I learn things each time I dope.

With the Vampire, the first sheet of silk I really botched the wing tips. It was my first time repairing a section that big and complex. Instead of cutting the new piece with scissors, I tore it to fit. The blend between the tip with the new piece and the already attached silk on the wing came out beautifully. Theres only one spot on the lower tip that I can tell there is a patch .... I simply didn't sand it enough to blend in. My point is ... I learn something every time, and the more I do it .... the more I enjoy the silk/dope method. I admire guys like Harry ..... its not easy to finish a plane like that. I can build pretty good .... but then I seem to get in a rush to finish things, and thats where I cut corners or do things that should have had more care.

The Bean and Prowler I'm trying to do just that .... take my time and try for my best finish. I bet it will be next spring before the Prowler is ready ... LOL!

OTS is fun .... my first contest 5-6 years ago I flew a SuperClown. I didn't do very well, but I do like the old era planes. My clown on the flight line was the smallest and actually looked alittle out of place .... but was legal for the event and got me 'in the dance'. That event was the motivation to build an OTS model .... and chose the Vampire. I like smaller planes and it is full bodied.

Even though I'm not really interested in contests .... the guys over there have still been asking me if I'm coming, and I do want to support them. So I'll go with no pressure ..... Smile
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  larrys4227 on Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:40 am

Heres a couple pics from that contest ....2009 ... I don't seem to have a pic of the OTS flight line .... oh well.

The deductions on my score wasbecause I had flaps.




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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  Ken Cook on Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:10 am

I think you should really demo in a video or progressive pictures one of your paint jobs. Explain how you do your wingtips, etc. Some of us could certainly benefit from these. Your finishes are in my opinion are way above the average sport flyer. In regards to the OTS planes, you seem to enjoy them. I have a lot of opinions on the rules. I stay out of it which is more than likely why I don't participate in the event. I think as long as it looks like the design, it should be eligible. I personally feel flaps do little to nothing and I see no advantage on close coupled planes. Many say they make the plane fly better, I disagree. You lose wing area when the flaps are deployed making the wing work even harder to fly the plane. That being said, you can see I'm not a fan of the point deduction ruling.
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  larrys4227 on Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:28 pm

Hey Ken --- There always seems to be a couple different camps of thought on the OTS planes and pattern. Sometimes I watch it hotly debated on other forums, of the slightest little thing.

Personally, I've always liked flying the OTS pattern, and the planes available at the cut off date allowed are interesting. But I do feel minor improvements/changes should be acceptable.

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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  larrys4227 on Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:12 pm

Since this thread primarily dealt with my Vampire, I'm going to share a story about it ....

I'm gonna look like a dumb-smuck ... but we are among friends and I feel I can tell you how much of a smuck I am. Smile

I built this plane for OTS, but I could never get any engine in it, to run the way I wanted to.  Could never find the right prop and right line length ... its always been doomed to bad runs.

This is why I've always flown the SuperClown and suffered with the deduction for flaps.

This weekend .... it was doing the same thing as always, frustrating me.  This time with an OS 25 FP.  I had hope for it 2 weeks ago .... getting pretty decent flights.

I had the house to myself .... and ripped everything out.  Nothing looked amiss ....

No holes in the tubing ..... clean filter and needle valve.  Tank looked good with my standard pressure test .... an old fuel squeeze bottle.

Just for the heck of it .... I grabbed my 5oz syringe fuel filler .... and I jammed a bunch of air into it ....

Guess what ..... it LEAKED!!!

That tank has been in there since at least 2009 .... and hasn't been out.  I never thought that the problem could be with the fuel tank ... cause I checked it when I was having issues back then,

I had the plane out late saturday afternoon .... and again on sunday morning.  Once I found the right prop and RPM .....  every run was almost picture perfect.  

On sunday morning I flew the full OTS pattern several times ..... and that my friends is a FIRST with this airplane .... almost 8 years.

You have no idea what a happy guy I am right now .... but I still feel like such a dumb smuck.  

------------------------

The leak was so small, that the fuel bulb I was using wasn't generating enough pressure to make it leak.

Mental note friends .... find whatever you can to maximize pressure to check for leaks.

I've learned my lesson .....  but I now feel like I have a brand new airplane that I just maidened.

I'm STOKED ... Smile
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RE:Plastic Coverings

Post  rat9000 on Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:26 pm

larrys4227 wrote:Since this thread primarily dealt with my Vampire, I'm going to share a story about it ....

I'm gonna look like a dumb-smuck ... but we are among friends and I feel I can tell you how much of a smuck I am. Smile

I built this plane for OTS, but I could never get any engine in it, to run the way I wanted to.  Could never find the right prop and right line length ... its always been doomed to bad runs.

This is why I've always flown the SuperClown and suffered with the deduction for flaps.

This weekend .... it was doing the same thing as always, frustrating me.  This time with an OS 25 FP.  I had hope for it 2 weeks ago .... getting pretty decent flights.

I had the house to myself .... and ripped everything out.  Nothing looked amiss ....

No holes in the tubing ..... clean filter and needle valve.  Tank looked good with my standard pressure test .... an old fuel squeeze bottle.

Just for the heck of it .... I grabbed my 5oz syringe fuel filler .... and I jammed a bunch of air into it ....

Guess what ..... it LEAKED!!!

That tank has been in there since at least 2009 .... and hasn't been out.  I never thought that the problem could be with the fuel tank ... cause I checked it when I was having issues back then,

I had the plane out late saturday afternoon .... and again on sunday morning.  Once I found the right prop and RPM .....  every run was almost picture perfect.  

On sunday morning I flew the full OTS pattern several times ..... and that my friends is a FIRST with this airplane .... almost 8 years.

You have no idea what a happy guy I am right now .... but I still feel like such a dumb smuck.  

------------------------

The leak was so small, that the fuel bulb I was using wasn't generating enough pressure to make it leak.

Mental note friends .... find whatever you can to maximize pressure to check for leaks.

I've learned my lesson .....  but I now feel like I have a brand new airplane that I just maidened.

I'm STOKED ... Smile
Sounds like a success story to me!! I"m sure I drove a few of the members nuts with my questions,in fact I think one of them left the forum because of it.Those are the things that need posted,to help other members. Rat
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  Ken Cook on Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:08 am

I've always suggested that to anyone I ever mentioned it to in regards to tanks. You want to check it like your trying to pop it. many times, flux itself can mask a small pin hole leak and it goes unrecognized until you put fuel in the tank and it softens it up. Not only what you discovered, but fixing one small leak can equally reveal another small leak.
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  pkrankow on Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:30 am

Ken Cook wrote:           I've always suggested that to anyone I ever mentioned it to in regards to tanks. You want to check it like your trying to pop it. many times, flux itself can mask a small pin hole leak and it goes unrecognized until you put fuel in the tank and it softens it up. Not only what you discovered, but fixing one small leak can equally reveal another small leak.

There is also the dreaded chasing a leak around the solder caused by trying to fix a pinhole, and making a new pinhole in the process. The better answer is sometimes to take the whole dang thing apart, clean everything, remove excess solder so the joints are cleanly tinned, then reassemble.

So glad to hear the problem got resolved in the end!

Phil
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Re: Plastic Coverings .... Suggestions to fix??

Post  RknRusty on Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:46 am

Ken Cook wrote:           I've always suggested that to anyone I ever mentioned it to in regards to tanks. You want to check it like your trying to pop it. many times, flux itself can mask a small pin hole leak and it goes unrecognized until you put fuel in the tank and it softens it up. Not only what you discovered, but fixing one small leak can equally reveal another small leak.
Yep, you've drilled that into me. I pump it up til I'm cringing expecting it to explode, then clamp it off and dunk it in water looking for bubbles. Ten minutes later I unclamp it and hopefully it'll try to shoot the plunger back out of the 5 oz. syringe.
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