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Micro Ringmaster coming together

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Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  TDbandit on Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:23 pm

Hi all Got a Micro Ring about built for the next traveling engine and here's a pic of it so far, Haven't decided on whether or not to install the landing gear. It's so tiny that i wonder if it would be practical to have a landing gear It's a PDK kit btw. It has my TD .010 stuck on it for the time being. Enjoy the tiny mosquito size Ringmaster!! (Bandit)
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  roddie on Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:22 am

I LIKE it! What are you planning for a pushrod? Did one come in the kit.. or is a certain material recommended? The lighter the better obviously. My Goldberg "Swordsman" has .050" music-wire.. which I believe came with the kit.. but your model is much smaller. Maybe .025" music-wire would do the job.. but I'd highly recommend a support guide to prevent flexing; installed in the fuse at around mid-distance. Eye pins can be great for this.. and can be found in the craft or sewing department at the department store.



Another issue with using an .025" wire pushrod, is making the holes in the bell-crank and control-horn small enough to be "slop-free". You might try making your own bell-crank and horn from 1/32" birch plywood.. and make the pushrod holes by driving a common-pin (sewing pin) through.. using a pin-vise or small locking pliers. Small sewing pins are around .022"/.025" diameter. You can treat the wood with thin CA glue afterward, to strengthen it. Being as small as this model is; having precision controls will make a big difference.

Landing gear is a matter of preference and possibly necessity. This model "may" hand-launch fine.. but if it proves difficult; an R.O.G. from a piece of cardboard might be easier. Also.. once painted; if the model is tail-heavy, you could bend-up a simple inverted "V"-gear to install between the tank-mount/firewall.. and use very small/streamlined wheels to add functional nose-weight if needed. The same .025" music-wire may work well for this too. You'll have to straighten it after every landing.. but that's no big deal. Wheels could consist of shirt buttons!
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  getback on Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:04 am

Nice looking micro TD is that cloth hinging on the stab/elevator ? Roddie like those pin eyes I will have to look for some next time out . You can get if you don't already have a pin vise set with bits on the bay for cheap http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC2.A0.H0.Xpin+vise+.TRS1&_nkw=pin+vise+&_sacat=0 What color you thinking Bandit ? getback Small Cox Logo
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  TDbandit on Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:54 am

It's .025 wire which was furnished in the kit, it's a kit from PDK btw very nice quality and did it build fast! I've got a support for the pushrod already made from a small paperclip and I plan on using Thin CA to strengthen and proof the model *You read my mind Roddie!!*

@Getback:
Yup those are cloth hinges which are only on one side and the holes were already drilled in the horn and the included 1/16 ply bellcrank. As far as colors go, I haven't decided as of yet. I may do my trademark dust paint job since the model is so tiny I can do a lighter color set that way. Trying to keep it light. Still have to make up the leadouts and attach them to the bell crank and rig the controls of course after painting.

BTW This is the absolute smallest model i've built so far, as far as tip weight how much should be used? I plan on flying it on 17' lines. (Bandit)
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  batjac on Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:26 pm

On these models, they need a good bit of tail weight.  So, I use 1/16" wire for the pushrod, since I'm not worried about weight aft.  With 1/16", you don't need to worry about a wire support halfway between the bellcrank and the elevator on such a short run.

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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  roddie on Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:43 pm

TDbandit wrote: Trying to keep it light. Still have to make up the leadouts and attach them to the bell crank and rig the controls of course after painting.

BTW This is the absolute smallest model i've built so far, as far as tip weight how much should be used? I plan on flying it on 17' lines. (Bandit)

Cool on the controls! How are you planning to do the lead-outs? I like solids.. but solid's small enough for this model (.015"?) will bend with discouraging ease. I still like them though.. The thought of flying on 17' lines thrills me! Have you seen the Cox handle that's a two-finger grip? It has a 1-9/16" line spacing. What's the spacing on your bell-crank?

I can't seem to upload a pic of my handle.. Huh...

As for tip-weight.. you could weigh what your using for line (get the tare on a spool and re-weigh after winding-on the 17 feet..) Add that weight to the outboard tip.. and see how it balances with the lead-outs installed.
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  roddie on Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:30 pm

I'm trying to post a pic of the narrow line-spacing with my Cox Cosmic Wind handle.. but the image host is not recognizing it. It's a little handle with two rings that's held with your index and third finger. The Cosmic Wind model is pretty small.. and there was the risk of over-controlling it with too-wide a line-spacing. Cox must have furnished this handle with other small models like the .020 powered Pitts or the Army-Trainer I would think. Perhaps Bernie got some replacement handles in, as part of that recent large parts acquisition? He doesn't currently stock the Cox handle I mentioned though.

Did PDK have any recommendations on a handle? I imagine they specify an equal-spacing.. but a "finger-tip" type handle I think would be really good for this model.. from a control feed-back standpoint.
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  batjac on Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:02 pm

I'm using one of these late model Cox handles.  The holes are 3 1/8" apart, so I just drilled holes 2" apart.




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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  TDbandit on Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:43 pm

roddie wrote:
TDbandit wrote: Trying to keep it light. Still have to make up the leadouts and attach them to the bell crank and rig the controls of course after painting.

BTW This is the absolute smallest model i've built so far, as far as tip weight how much should be used? I plan on flying it on 17' lines. (Bandit)

Cool on the controls! How are you planning to do the lead-outs? I like solids.. but solid's small enough for this model (.015"?) will bend with discouraging ease. I still like them though.. The thought of flying on 17' lines thrills me! Have you seen the Cox handle that's a two-finger grip? It has a 1-9/16" line spacing. What's the spacing on your bell-crank?

I can't seem to upload a pic of my handle..  Huh...

As for tip-weight.. you could weigh what your using for line (get the tare on a spool and re-weigh after winding-on the 17 feet..) Add that weight to the outboard tip.. and see how it balances with the lead-outs installed.
I'm planning on using solid lead outs along with quick disconnects. I've got the old handle that came with my old Testors Fly "em" mustang that i had as a kid, it's very similar to what you described. I may try and use it IF i can find it also the bell crank spacing is an 1 1/4 hole to hole. (Bandit)
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  TDbandit on Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:49 pm

roddie wrote:I'm trying to post a pic of the narrow line-spacing with my Cox Cosmic Wind handle.. but the image host is not recognizing it. It's a little handle with two rings that's held with your index and third finger. The Cosmic Wind model is pretty small.. and there was the risk of over-controlling it with too-wide a line-spacing. Cox must have furnished this handle with other small models like the .020 powered Pitts or the Army-Trainer I would think. Perhaps Bernie got some replacement handles in, as part of that recent large parts acquisition? He doesn't currently stock the Cox handle I mentioned though.

Did PDK have any recommendations on a handle? I imagine they specify an equal-spacing.. but a "finger-tip" type handle I think would be really good for this model.. from a control feed-back standpoint.
No he didn't believe it or not also for balance, he recommends cutting two pennies in half and sticking the halves on each side of the fuse under the horizontal stab. (Bandit)
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  TDbandit on Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:54 pm

batjac wrote:I'm using one of these late model Cox handles.  The holes are 3 1/8" apart, so I just drilled holes 2" apart.




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Nice model, is that your micro nobler? And that tank, what size is it? I would like to get a hard tank so I can loop but I don't know what size. smallest tank I have is 3/8 oz, put that thing on there and i'll end up boring a hole to china lol. (Bandit)
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  Oldenginerod on Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:19 am

roddie wrote:I'm trying to post a pic of the narrow line-spacing with my Cox Cosmic Wind handle.. but the image host is not recognizing it. It's a little handle with two rings that's held with your index and third finger. The Cosmic Wind model is pretty small.. and there was the risk of over-controlling it with too-wide a line-spacing. Cox must have furnished this handle with other small models like the .020 powered Pitts or the Army-Trainer I would think. Perhaps Bernie got some replacement handles in, as part of that recent large parts acquisition? He doesn't currently stock the Cox handle I mentioned though.

Did PDK have any recommendations on a handle? I imagine they specify an equal-spacing.. but a "finger-tip" type handle I think would be really good for this model.. from a control feed-back standpoint.

Maybe a Testors handle.  Not sure of the spacing, but I recall mine's pretty narrow.
Can't post a picture, but here's a link to one (with plane) on ebay.
Testors Fly 'em
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  gcb on Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:08 am

A couple of comments...

I use those type hinges on small planes. I first saw it on a Scientific plane by Walt Musciano in the mid fifties. You might consider installing them on the bottom of the stab so they can't be seen.

That's an awfully small plane for that engine. Good luck. You may have your hands full flying it. Smile

Cox used to make more narrowly spaced handles. Note the green one in one pic and the small one in another:

 



George


Last edited by gcb on Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  getback on Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:11 am

??? that's different , 1/4 oz . tank work ? are the .020 TD the same no fuel suckers that the .049's TD's are ? I have a 2 finger handle they are neat but very small .  
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  roddie on Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:55 am

Here's the handle (finally.. it uploaded) It's similar to the white one that George pictured above.  



This Perfect #15 "short-tiny" wedge-tank is 1/8oz. capacity. It has stunt venting. Brodak "may" have a repro. of this size. They seem to stock most of the other sizes of Perfect-style wedges.



Yes, Brodak has that tank.. They also stock a slightly larger 1/6oz. one too. See link below and also page 4 of their fuel tank directory. Lots of options there. Beware though.. these are known to be hit or miss as far as quality (soldering) is concerned. They should be flushed and leak-tested even when new, to reveal any defects.

Brodak 1/8oz wedge
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  batjac on Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:12 pm

TDbandit wrote:Nice model, is that your micro nobler? And that tank, what size is it? I would like to get a hard tank so I can loop but I don't know what size. smallest tank I have is 3/8 oz, put that thing on there and i'll end up boring a hole to china lol. (Bandit)

Yup.  That's my Nibbler.  I'm not positive on the size of the tank.  It's the smallest tank I have. It came in a lot of Cox parts I got a while back.

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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  TDbandit on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:54 pm

batjac wrote:
TDbandit wrote:Nice model, is that your micro nobler? And that tank, what size is it? I would like to get a hard tank so I can loop but I don't know what size. smallest tank I have is 3/8 oz, put that thing on there and i'll end up boring a hole to china lol. (Bandit)

Yup.  That's my Nibbler.  I'm not positive on the size of the tank.  It's the smallest tank I have.  It came in a lot of Cox parts I got a while back.

The Unsure Mark
That's right sorry, very cool model bet it flies nice. I think mine is gonna be a little hotrod lol Smile
I may take the micro with me to rusty's when I go visit him for 1/2A day, and if the weather is calm, may even fly it!
Speaking of my micro RM I seem to have lost the testor's handle that I have or HAD anyway so I'm gonna have to make myself up one, I'm thinking 1 1/2 spacing since the bell crank is 1 1/4 hole to hole. (Bandit)
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  TDbandit on Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:57 pm

gcb wrote:A couple of comments...

I use those type hinges on small planes. I first saw it on a Scientific plane by Walt Musciano in the mid fifties. You might consider installing them on the bottom of the stab so they can't be seen.

That's an awfully small plane for that engine. Good luck. You may have your hands full flying it. Smile

Cox used to make more narrowly spaced handles. Note the green one in one pic and the small one in another:

 



George
Oh i'm pretty sure I will, I'm expecting it to be rather quick It was a kit and was told that it flies well so we'll see! (Bandit)
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:31 am

roddie wrote:Here's the handle (finally.. it uploaded) It's similar to the white one that George pictured above.  

That's a Testors Fly 'em handle. Note the slot in the back where is slides onto the wing tip for storage.
Rod.
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  gcb on Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:56 am

roddie wrote: This Perfect #15 "short-tiny" wedge-tank is 1/8oz. capacity. It has stunt venting. Brodak "may" have a repro. of this size. They seem to stock most of the other sizes of Perfect-style wedges.



Yes, Brodak has that tank.. They also stock a slightly larger 1/6oz. one too. See link below and also page 4 of their fuel tank directory. Lots of options there. Beware though.. these are known to be hit or miss as far as quality (soldering) is concerned. They should be flushed and leak-tested even when new, to reveal any defects.

Brodak 1/8oz wedge


John Brodak bought the Perfect line of tanks and reproduces the most popular ones. Last time I bought some the only difference was that "PERFECT" was not stamped where it normally would be.

Nice shot of that handle. I did not know about the slot. The only Testors RTF that O had was a P-38 that had one real engine and one dummy engine. Perhaps that handle came from the P-38.

George
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Re: Micro Ringmaster coming together

Post  TDbandit on Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:50 am

Yup that's the handle i'm looking for right now in fact. Can't seem to find it though, I want to use it for the MR. I had the Testors silver Fly "em P-51D mustang not the yellow one. The yellow one is natual yellow while the P-51D was painted and would start peeling just after a few flights. Paint wasn't exactly fuel proof, it was resistant but not proof. In all it's crankiness, I loved that plane (Bandit)
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