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Post  ian1954 on Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:05 am

We are at the finishing stalling point! One wrong choice and yuk!

As always, I watch Rusty's build threads but when it comes to finishing - I haven't a clue what the products are. What i do know is that fuel proof and fuel resistant are a long way from each other.

I used to think that it was the hot residue from the exhaust that wrecked a finish but after consulting some of my RC pals - they attest that the major cause is neat fuel softening the finish first followed by residue. Filling and priming the engine being the main culprits.

I asked them about the finishes/fuel proofing they use and the answer was 2K paints - epoxy or polymer. They also pointed out that they can be heavy finishes and might not be suitable for CL.

Also and this is the biggy, some of them have a limited working time - can be as little as 30 minutes after which the spray equipment needs to be scrupulously cleaned or the spray gun/airbrush will be wrecked/or take hours to clean up.

The others I know use petrol/gas engines and don't suffer the same.

I watch the trials and tribulations of fuel proofing and that side is easier for me being on the "Dark Side". All I have to do is "wet grass" proof the plane!



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Post  RknRusty on Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:52 pm

Well it's painted... sort of. Looks like a turd. Some sanding and reworking is in order. I wish I'd left it white.
My idea of a mask-less paint job didn't look like I had imagined. It looks worse in real life, but I can remove some of it and make it better.

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Post  NEW222 on Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:05 pm

No turd there, looks like you're off to a start. Just a little masking and shoot the next color. Thats what is also nice. Nothing is permanent, and can be redone again. Trial and error. Trust me, I do my fair share of it!
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Post  Ken Cook on Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:07 pm

Rusty, if your spraying dope over that, I would be very careful around the red where it meets the white. You picked two colors that don't play well with dope. The red can easily bleed into the white making it pink.
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Post  JMynes on Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:46 pm

getback wrote:Welcome to the Forum  JMynes ,, There is another guy on here doing preserves on plastic and using the Klass Kote ithink , it was Expoxy based and I looked into it and had a lot of $$$ in front of it but in the long run would probably  bee worth it . Coming along nicely Rusty !! Eric sunny

Yes, Klass Kote is expensive, but a little bit goes a long, long way. When I mix the part A and part B it's usually 10 ml of each. After mixing it and letting it think (attenuate is the term used in the instructions) for 40 minutes, you add in reducer until it has the approximate viscosity of milk. By now the volume is up to about 1.5 ounces, which will cover a profile fuselage and tail surfaces on a Magician 35 with two light coats in rapid succession. Clean the airbrush. Let cure overnight and repeat with the next color.
Anything you don't spray can be refrigerated and used in the next few days. It will look ugly and spoiled, but mix it with a popsicle stick and let it warm up while you're setting up the airbrush, and spray it again.
You get plenty of working time after mixing, more than an hour in my experience, so no need to rush. Paradoxically, once it's on the plane it's dry to the touch in an hour.
I like the stuff, but I need to get better with my airbrush controls. But even an amateur like me can get decent results.
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Post  RknRusty on Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:23 pm

Hi Jim, thanks for jumping in, we need all the resourceful members we can get around here.

I brought the Twister into the house to speed up drying. Tomorrow evening, I'll sand off the excessively sprayed areas and re-cover those places with white, which I intend to be the predominant color. The existing white is only one thin, partially transparent coat, so it will clean up easily, and I won't have to overload it with paint. The razorback and canopy will be the only parts sharply delineated with black and blue.

Ken, after I get the colors sanded and repainted to suit me, I'll go very carefully with the clear and dust it lightly till I feel like it's covered. I didn't know about the problem with red.

Right now it weighs 24 ounces. Added to that will be the weight of the fp.35(9oz), tongue muffler, prop, tank, control rod, landing gear, bolts and clear dope. Looks like a 40ish ounce plane to me. That's right on specs with the plans(38-42oz.) and recommended engine(fp.35)

I've come this far and done a good job. I'm not gonna botch it now, even though it isn't exactly spectacular yet. This plane is going to look good and fly well.

I used this mask-less painting method on a much simpler project a few years ago, and did have some bleeding from Lustrekote. It came out pretty good then too. Have faith, I can do this.
Here's that other mask-less wonder:
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Post  RknRusty on Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:28 pm

I piled all the remaining pieces yet to be bolted onto the 24 oz. airframe. All but the tongue muffler, but I made up for the difference with an extra length 3/32 music wire, a couple of extra clevises, and some packaging. All that's missing is the clear coat, so I think it's close enough for a guesstimate. Tip weight is already in the weight box. I think the paint will weigh about the same after I neaten it up.
So 24 oz. + 14.6 oz=38.6 oz for the whole plane. Not too shabby.
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I didn't include a spinner because even though they look pretty, I never compete with one in case the prop slips while I'm cranking it.
Rusty

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Post  getback on Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:49 pm

I like Blended Colors // I think it will bee just fine in the end. I can see an American at the stick of a flying flag !!! Jim that don't sound too bad for the mix if the reducer isn't too $$  9.00 1/2 pt. here http://www.klasskote.com/epoxy_paint_home  and no your good to go till the body hits the floor LOL  Get that bird in the Air United States
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Post  NEW222 on Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:35 pm

Fireworks
getback wrote:I like Blended Colors // I think it will bee just fine in the end. I can see an American at the stick of a flying flag !!! Jim that don't sound too bad for the mix if the reducer isn't too $$  9.00 1/2 pt. here http://www.klasskote.com/epoxy_paint_home  and no your good to go till the body hits the floor LOL  Get that bird in the Air United States

Thanks Eric!  Cool Quite the song I must say. Laying in bed on the tablet, the better half sleeping, I hit play thinking not bad, and then....... Shocked  I guess next time i ought to have my speakers turned down! I think I'm awake again.
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Post  RknRusty on Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:22 pm

getback wrote:I like Blended Colors // I think it will bee just fine in the end. I can see an American at the stick of a flying flag !!! Jim that don't sound too bad for the mix if the reducer isn't too $$  9.00 1/2 pt. here http://www.klasskote.com/epoxy_paint_home  and no your good to go till the body hits the floor LOL   Get that bird in the Air United States
Oh brother, another flying flag Lol.
Good head-banging song, thanks. I played it while I was making tomorrow morning's coffee.

Since the plane is here in the house with me, I've been looking at it, and I'm seeing good potentially easy ways to get the colors shaped up. Next time you see a picture it should look like I originally intended. I'm excited about getting it in the air, and that depends on the humidity so I can get that clear on in light enough increments that I don't melt the paint like Ken warned about. If I get the paint finished Saturday night, maybe I can start shooting clear Monday and do another coat every afternoon during the week. The Humidity rises at night, but it's been in the low 40% range every afternoon lately. Hope it keeps up like that.

I hope it's cured enough to be able to fly it by next Saturday or Sunday. I haven't popped the top off of the clear dope yet, so I don't know what it smells like, but I'm sure I better not try it in the living room Lol. DC makes matching clear automotive lacquer too, but I hear it's not glow fuel resistant, so that's why I bought the Brodak Dope. And now I hear it's not very resistant either, even though it says so on the can. So the nose, all forward of the wing is going to get Lustrekote instead.
Rusty

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Post  Cribbs74 on Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:53 pm

Dope isn't as strong on the senses as you might think although, it does linger. Lusterkote will work. Just expect the cracking like you mentioned. Takes a year or so for that to take place.
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Post  RknRusty on Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:12 am

Cribbs74 wrote:Dope isn't as strong on the senses as you might think although, it does linger. Lusterkote will work. Just expect the cracking like you mentioned. Takes a year or so for that to take place.
I think I'm one of the last serious model builders around here to finally be trying it for the first time. If and when I buy it again I might try the Sig. With Brodak, if I'm not in a hurry I can get it without the shipping cost. I'll have a compressor pretty soon. My stand alone pump just has a bad head. My industrial HVAC buddy who lives down at the beach has another one for me whenever we manage to visit again. I already have a tank, but I have to fill it at the tire store.

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Post  Mark Boesen on Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:57 am

i think your on to something...

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Post  RknRusty on Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:17 am

Mark Boesen wrote:I think your on to something...
I guess I am... in some sort of abstract way. United States

EDIT: I am now sanding back down to the white and even through that in some spots. I'm going all the way back to white except for the red underbelly and blue nose. I'll spot prime and recoat. This has been a setback to my plan to maiden next weekend, but I might still get there. I wish I could have yesterday back for a (Not)-do over. What a pain in the ass.

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Post  RknRusty on Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:14 pm

Guess who's gonna have a sore shoulder tomorrow! That was a lot of sanding. The damn thing looked like it had been in an explosion at a flag factory. How frustrating. But I'm not the first guy to have to strip a new paint job to start over.

So I'll call that a two day setback, possibly three. Thank goodness my white base was the thinnest possible layer of paint. This paint is so hard and dry, the sandpaper didn't load up at all. The red and blue were the tough ones to get off, they took lots more elbow grease than the white. I managed to clean it up without cutting into any of the fiberglass. So I'll give it a Windex bath and shoot a can of primer on it tomorrow night and start over again. keeping it simple, mostly white with an accent here and there. I left the flaps and stab/elevator with some of their dashes of color.

It was 103 today with dry air, and that's forecast for the next few days. The shop temp is only about 85, so not a bad painting environment.

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Post  Ken Cook on Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:18 am

Rusty, are you trying to punish yourself? Man, after all that and now your back to square one. You should've just taped off the oversprayed colors squarely and left them as stripes.
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Post  getback on Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:43 am

ARE YOU HAVING FUN YET !!!! DAMMIT!  What Kin said ((( I would have not had in in me to go through that )))) If you crash this plane a boot stompen will be in order ( from Ron Cribbs ) lol! OK Ok I know from experience that talking to people with difft. opinions will mess with your head !?!?! So just do the do and it will come out fine ! Eric  Tired w/ Coffee Read    Just for U
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Post  RknRusty on Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:47 pm

Ken Cook wrote:                   Rusty, are you trying to punish yourself? Man, after all that and now your back to square one. You should've just taped off the oversprayed colors squarely and left them as stripes.

Well yeah, that's what I thought too, but then I started sanding and the colors didn't want to come off. It got grizzly... I got grizzly. Ken you should have seen it in real life, it was horrible. It would have shown through unless I really got heavy handed with the white, and then it would have been patchy looking.

After being the most perfectly built kit I ever did(aren't they all), after 6 months of nights(first spars on the table January 9th), I just couldn't stand it and I went a little mad. I know it would have flown just as well, but my inner lunatic got the best of me and I just had to have it perfect.

This morning I bought some DC white primer for this same lacquer. I Finished sanding and gave it a Windex bath and masked it for priming. I spent the rest of the day with my son and company. So Sunday AM I'll do another quick cleaning and shoot it. The white primer will allow me to be sparing with the white paint, and by this time tomorrow night I should have it mostly painted except for any place where it’s too soon to mask, like the canopy and razorback… is that called a turtledeck? I like my name for it better. That means probably Tuesday before I can hit the first shot of clear and the weekend will be coming fast, so this was a setback. Today was supposed to have been the first clear coat day. Luckily the temps will be still in the 100s and humidity in the 30s-40s. It was 103@34% today. The % rises at night.

I’ll keep y'all posted. I will fly something next weekend. I hope it’s the Twister… minus decals as usual... with its $90 dollar paint job
Crazy Rusty

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Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:45 pm

Put a sticker and a number on it and sling it. Who gives a crap. If it flys good that's all that matters. We spend too much time making pretty expendable planes. I for one would be tickled if you spanked someone with a good flying plane with less than stellar paint work.

I still owe you a streak. It's been bothering me, I have been away from home too much to deal with the shipping.

Ron
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Post  Ken Cook on Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:21 am

I will honestly say that I have many planes here which are just in clear with silkspan on the wings all in clear as well. I throw a Jap tissue design on them now and then. I'm in the painting stages of a Vector .40 currently and I have to tell you it's very hard just getting past the attachment coats anymore.
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Post  JMynes on Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:00 am

RknRusty wrote:I’ll keep y'all posted. I will fly something next weekend. I hope it’s the Twister… minus decals as usual... with its $90 dollar paint job
Crazy Rusty

Did somebody say Klass Kote was pricey? Perhaps I misunderstood...

Anyway, Rusty, I was trying to paint a Ringmaster with rattle can Duplicolor once. It gave me all kinds of trouble here in the Florida humidity. I wanted it to be perfect, but finally got fed up and just went out and flew it. Since then I don't care if a little wood grain is visible, or if the paint isn't just so. For me, the fun is in the flying, and if it looks decent from 15 feet away I'm happy.
The Ringmaster? Yeah, the McCoy was buzzing along in a nice 4 stroke, breaking into 2 stroke in the loops just right. Well it bonked when I tried a lazy 8, smacked into the asphalt, and rekitted. First flight. That was the beginning of my conversion to electric power. Three years later I have seen the light, and it runs on lipos!
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Post  Ken Cook on Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:08 am

I never tried the Klass Kote, I did use the K&B Superpoxy a lot in the 80's. Wonderful paint but it did come with quite a weight penalty. Back then I wasn't spraying the stuff. I had some incredible results using a sponge brush. I then started to use Perfect paint which I loved, but unfortunately it went out too. I know Brodak has some cans still left of various colors in the newly rebadged Chevron paint. No thinner and the stuff was a real bear to clean up. I looked at the Klass Kote website and it certainly doesn't seem out of the ballpark as far as price is concerned. The water based polyurethane paints I was purchasing was more money than the epoxy. I have witnessed a few speed planes in the .21 size painted with Klass Kote which just looked amazing.
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Post  RknRusty on Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:37 am

I'm just a nut for a pretty paint job. The funny thing is, I only care about beauty until the first couple of flights are in the bag, and after that I let it wear the scuffs and dents like a badge, gives it character. But never fear, today the white primer will go on very thin, requiring little strenuous sanding, and the colors will follow. The existing patches of paint are so thin I can't feel the transition when I rub my thumb(where I have feeling) over it. Another testament to the efficiency of DC paint. Until I get burned by it, I'm a walking ad for the brand.

At 11:30, the humiture is 93f over 40% and both numbers will diverge over the next 5 hours, so a good day for catching up.

Ron you know you don't actually Owe me a Streak, but if you ever do get a chance to ship it, I'll cover the cost and give it a great home.

Hey if y'all didn't have a nutty friend in SC to write too many stories and ask goofy questions, you might get bored.
DuplicRusty the paint fiend

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Post  RknRusty on Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:00 pm

RknRusty wrote:...I bought some DC white primer for this same lacquer....So Sunday AM I'll do another quick cleaning and shoot it. The white primer will allow me to be sparing with the white paint, and by this time tomorrow night I should have it mostly painted except for any place where it’s too soon to mask, like the canopy and razorback…

And this morning I did shoot it with the white primer, somewhat heavier than "light" but it looked good. Then I followed the directions to sand it with 600. Ha! That didn't touch it. 220 barely moves it but leaves scratches and loads up so I have to keep scraping the paper, but it comes off easily. Going back over it with 600 leaves it nice and smooth and anywhere there was no original white paint sands easier. It bonded to the old white paint and combined to turn into a rock. I guess that's good in the reverse(correct) order, but I'm going to recommend not using the DC white primer except for a very last priming, a very light coat, and only if your color is going to be very light like white.

Just when I was finishing, sweating into my eyes, and almost ready for its pre-painting bath, I heard in the distance, "Ruuuuuusty..... the lawnmower is broken!" Lol. I rummaged in my bolt stash, bolted the starter motor back on, and now I'm chillin' in the den. maybe I'll spray it tonight. The colors are already on it under the masking.

Rusty


Last edited by RknRusty on Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:55 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post  RknRusty on Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:56 pm

The paint is done, except for a touch-up to make the blue nose paint extend farther back. It's barely visible in the first picture. And the spine and canopy need painting blue and silver.

Unbelievably, it is the same weight as it was after the first paint job. Thursday it weighed 24.5 ounces(I mistakenly reported 24). Tonight it still weighs 24.5 ounces. I am so glad to get past this step. I'm back on track.

It will have decals on the nose and wing and of course, I always like to put one on the vertical stab. I'll hunt Google images for a Tasmanian devil or something. My numbers will be the minimum 1" and probably on the Outboard flap.

My Fancherized Twister build; 3 days til Huntersville - Page 8 0710162204a_zpsbxdqafjw

My Fancherized Twister build; 3 days til Huntersville - Page 8 0710162205_zpsozxajnlp

My Fancherized Twister build; 3 days til Huntersville - Page 8 0710162204_zpsbwuwmyih

_________________
Don't Panic!
...and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!


My Hot Rock & Blues Playlist
RknRusty
RknRusty
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Age : 63
Location : South Carolina, USA

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