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Cox restorations for the week

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But...

Post  happydad on Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:11 am

Jason_WI wrote:I think your thinking of isopropyl alcohol that can have up to 50% water added. Denatured alcohol is ethanol with usually methanol added. Adding water to ethanol would still make it drinkable of which the TTB would not like.

But, like Rusty pointed out if you leave parts in alcohol exposed to air too long it can take moisture out of the air. I have seen parts like copper cleaned with denatured alcohol oxidize quickly again after cleaning. Anything left in the open can absorb moisture out of the air, especially liquids. I always use oil based cleaners on my engines to be safe.

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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  Jason_WI on Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:10 am

More restorations this week. Can you spot the early babe bee with the 3 piece piston?

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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  Oldenginerod on Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:05 am

The backplate on the top right engine looks right but other things don't add up, so I'm guessing the engine below it, middle right, behind the Pee Wee.
Huh...
Rod.
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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  getback on Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:00 am

Looking Good , I will guess the one above the red TD 51 ? getback Babe Bee .049
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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  Marleysky on Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:08 am

My X-Ray vision does not work over the internet, so I can't see the internals. I'm gonna guess it's the top right engine with the non plated backplate? Computer Issues
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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  GallopingGhostler on Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:15 am

I'd say 2nd row right before the Pee Wee, it appears to have the smaller intake without screen and the larger turning knob on the needle valve.

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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  Jason_WI on Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:37 am

Yep, its the middle engine just behind the Pee Wee. I has the bright zinc chromate backplate and no Cox logo on the backplate. Also no provision for a screen either.
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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  GallopingGhostler on Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:24 pm

Good "Where is Waldo" analogy. sunny

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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  Mark Boesen on Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:17 pm

yep, it was one of two with the large needle, the other has the newer "brass" backplate.
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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  Oldenginerod on Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:39 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:The backplate on the top right engine looks right but other things don't add up, so I'm guessing the engine below it, middle right, behind the Pee Wee.
Huh...
Rod.
As I mentioned, I felt that the backplate on the top right engine looked to be the right colour for an early engine, but my final choice (the correct one) was due to the shape of the intake region (hard to see), crankcase nose, thin walled cylinder & large needle knob. I becomes a little difficult because after all these years many engines have been mixed & matched. I have 2 of the first-run Babe Bees & for some reason haven't been able to get them to run.

Rod.
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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  Jason_WI on Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:46 pm

More restorations this week. The killer bees are real. One is pre '96 the other is post '96. Got them in a RC Groups lot a week ago. Could see the double groove .051 piston in the lot pic.

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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  happydad on Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:44 am

Jason_WI wrote:More restorations this week. The killer bees are real. One is pre '96 the other is post '96. Got them in a RC Groups lot a week ago. Could see the double groove .051 piston in the lot pic.


Nice Jason, Very Nice. I would venture a guess they set you back a pretty penny or 2. especially the 2 original KB's.
I am very envious, but on a strict budget. Pay the bills 1st, buy food 2nd, spend the rest on gas for the cars. Retirement has it's benefits and it's drawbacks.
  Show us more as you continue your restoring project.

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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  getback on Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:26 am

NICE GROUP !! you are just having way too much fun lol I have got to get some cleaned and back out there for sale sold all but two . I was eye balling my engines on my planes hanging around and they are not SHINNING lol! DAMMIT! getback
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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  Kim on Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:45 am

Great Collection !!
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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  GallopingGhostler on Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:26 am

Jason_WI wrote:More restorations this week. The killer bees are real. One is pre '96 the other is post '96. Got them in a RC Groups lot a week ago. Could see the double groove .051 piston in the lot pic.

Nice assortment Jason and good job on the clean up. Recently I came to the opinion that it is just not worth collecting older non-Cox 1/2-A engines for use. The reed valve Coxes are the most powerful sport engines available, exceeding legacy sport rotary valve engines of the their day.

Why even the Pee Wee exceeded the performance of some of the .049's available in the 1950's / early 1960's. The novelty of legacy stuff is wearing off as I get older. And for RC planes that use an .020 Pee Wee or Tee Dee, one can take a Sure Start, add throttle or put mild prop backwards or use a clamp exhaust restrictor, or have fun with that plane with a little more zip.

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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  Jason_WI on Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:38 am

More restorations for the week. The TD .09 is definately just a runner. Not pretty with the mounting holes drilled or the tool marks on the case and drive hub. I had wanted to swap the crankcase with the Medallion .09 but the Medallion .09 crankcase had a larger diameter crankshaft. Sometime in the early 80s Cox must have increased the crankshaft diameter on the Medallion .09. Not all .09 crankcases are the same.

One Queen Bee has a custom muffler. It is a later one with two bypass ports and 2 boost ports milled in one on each side. The QB with the original muffler only has to bypass ports.

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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  GallopingGhostler on Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:49 am

Jason_WI wrote:More restorations for the week. The TD .09 is definitely just a runner. Not pretty with the mounting holes drilled or the tool marks on the case and drive hub. I had wanted to swap the crankcase with the Medallion .09 but the Medallion .09 crankcase had a larger diameter crankshaft. Sometime in the early 80s Cox must have increased the crankshaft diameter on the Medallion .09. Not all .09 crankcases are the same.
Joe Wagner, engine guru and columnist for various magazines one time had an article on how he restored engines that had broken mounting lugs by making cardboard forms and J.B. Weld to make up the missing portion. I suppose you could fill the mounting holes with J.B. Weld and redrill them. For me, I'd practice on a junk case before trying it on another.

Regarding the tool mark case nicks, I've used a fine file to remove burs and high spots followed with Mother's Mag and Aluminum Polish cream to help remove or defuse them. Cleaned up a couple Enyas and an OS Max .40-FP that had that problem quite nicely.
One Queen Bee has a custom muffler. It is a later one with two bypass ports and 2 boost ports milled in one on each side. The QB with the original muffler only has two bypass ports.
That is interesting. I never inspected the porting on mine, it is one of the earlier. I got it thinking it would make a nice RC engine, but had a bugger of a time attempting to start it with the Cox glow plug. Later I found that if I had replaced their plug with another I'd have better luck. That engine was a disappointment because of its heavier weight. I never understood why Cox didn't simply upsize the .049 reedie and made a larger, lightweight Sure Start style of a motor with a lightweight exhaust throttle muffler. I'm sure it would have been a hit with more power output than the .049 sport reedies. If they matched the bolt mounting pattern of the Cox .049 tank reedy, it would have been a sure hit. It apparently didn't sell well and was discontinued not much long after, IMO. It was then that I figured that Cox was on its way out.

Another oddity was the .049 R/C Bee. It was a reliable, great sport engine but used an odd thinner internal clunk fuel line that was looped to provide clunk action. It was sold only for a short time, and the tubing wasn't long lasting. I ended up replacing it with thicker silicone fuel line loosing clunk action. The motor was well worn with many flights onto its second cylinder. Since I flew it on a single channel Minnie Mambo with Ace Pulse Commander and Stomper Actuator for rudder and KRD sequential quick blip throttle servo, there was no need for clunk action. I found rudder only a real blast to fly with Minnie. It would loop like crazy with its short coupled elevator to wing.

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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  anm2 on Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:21 am

Jason_WI wrote:More restorations for the week. The TD .09 is definately just a runner. Not pretty with the mounting holes drilled or the tool marks on the case and drive hub. I had wanted to swap the crankcase with the Medallion .09 but the Medallion .09 crankcase had a larger diameter crankshaft. Sometime in the early 80s Cox must have increased the crankshaft diameter on the Medallion .09. Not all .09 crankcases are the same.

One Queen Bee has a custom muffler. It is a later one with two bypass ports and 2 boost ports milled in one on each side. The QB with the original muffler only has to bypass ports.


Jason, That .09 Tee Dee, is an older, early model .09 with a thin wall cylinder. The cylinder looks to be in great shape. The TD .09 is one of my favorite engines because of the power output. I keep a close eye on ebay and the older models are somewhat rare. Nice catch. Andy

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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  getback on Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:12 am

Question : the BB top right thin neck crank , Is that considered a product engine I haven't been able to find info on them , shows BB as the bottom right ///I Know its an early version and people will buy those before the other. getback Babe Bee
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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  GallopingGhostler on Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:49 pm

getback wrote:Question : the BB top right thin neck crank , Is that considered a product engine I haven't been able to find info on them , shows BB as the bottom right ///I Know its an early version and people will buy those before the other. getback Babe Bee
Regarding crankcase taper year discontinued for straight untapered, not sure exact year, but it must have been sometime in the early 1970's. Engines I have (purchase date not manufacturer date) up to 1971 have the taper. Ones I picked up 1974 or 1975 on did not. (Just checked a Cox 190/290 postage stamp back donor engine from a Cox RTF I bought and crashed in 1971, it has the taper.)

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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  KariFS on Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:02 pm

So that would mean a product engine with a combination of a horseshoe backplate (AFAIK introduced in 1972 or 73), tapered crankcase and a stepped cylinder could be "plausible"?

Just considering building some "parts bin specials" and would like them to be sort of "period correct" i.e. something that Cox could have built.

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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  Mark Boesen on Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:14 pm

PT-19, Super Cub 105 & P-40 all used Babe Bees, the P-40 had a dual intake cylinder.
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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  GallopingGhostler on Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:43 pm

KariFS wrote:So that would mean a product engine with a combination of a horseshoe backplate (AFAIK introduced in 1972 or 73), tapered crankcase and a stepped cylinder could be "plausible"? Just considering building some "parts bin specials" and would like them to be sort of "period correct" i.e. something that Cox could have built.
Seems to be a little grey area where there was a transition on the crankcase taper to straight. Regarding "period correct", if one thinks about it, there was nothing unusual with mixing and matching parts in repairing a wrecked engine. Department stores back then had parts. I think even Sears stores sold Cox parts. One would go to the hobby store or other and purchase replacement parts, whatever was available. Sometimes older parts were on clearance to make room for the new. I certainly did stunts like that (eye for saving money).

I suppose that Cox used up all of one before moving on to the newer, to reduce excess inventory and keep competitive, unless they specifically announced a new revision to an engine with a starting date. The RTF sport models I guess would be easier to make changes as these are less visible with all the shiny plastic around them. I kind of lost touch with time as I took a recess from 1974 to 1978 with the Coxes.

I'm not sure how one would maintain truly historic purity on any of these items, short of an unopened sealed box item with verified date of manufacture or purchase near date of manufacture.

That would be an eye opener though, a horseshoe backplate with a taper nose crankcase. What would the most astute and discerning collector think? Perhaps an entry for the next "Cox of the Month Contest"? Wink

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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  Jason_WI on Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:48 pm

From what I found there are 3 different taper crankcases. The first release babe bee had narrow neck but the flair at the back near the crankcase is thinner. It's subtle but there. The flat area on the front of the crankcase is a smidge wider. Then the later narrow neck, thick neck, and finally the straight nose crankcase. The RR-1 used its own taper style as well.

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Re: Cox restorations for the week

Post  Mark Boesen on Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:24 pm

The first major change to the "tapered" case, occurred in late '60's, some say it was due to wear on the cutting tools, others say it was beefed up for strength, by '70-'71 they went to the "straight" nose.
You can get an approximate manufacture date on the tapered cases by looking inside for a oil groove, early cases had none, after couple years Cox added one and by early sixties (?) had two. Also the groove at base of cylinder was made in early 60's


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Re: Cox restorations for the week

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