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» Indexing COX cylinders
by balogh Today at 7:23 am

» Another of C.T. engines cleaned ---- Cox Tee Dee .09 --- Just today (3/26/2024) more Cox parts
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» Introducing our Cox .049 TD Engines
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Cox Engine of The Month
March-2024
balogh's

"COX Budapest" .049 engine



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Post  ian1954 Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:12 am

Before I start this topic I should point out that I am a fan of using castor oil as a lubricant but don't want this to turn into a synthetic vs castor oil debate.

I have just read the topic about a gummed up Pee Wee and have a few other thoughts on restoring one to running condition and how not to get one into that state in the first place.

The first point I have is that any engine should be flushed clean and treated with after run oil before being put to one side. I have now got into this habit as I have gummed up a few myself. It will happen but is not always as obvious as a fully seized engine.

I liked Ken's comment

Ken Cook wrote:A major problem with most Cox engines is the castor goo that accumulates in the crankshaft area in the case when left dormant. While you might be successful in freeing the crank and engine to the point of running, it may not reach it's full potential. The crank sometimes needs to be removed and all the varnish needs to be mechanically removed. What happens is that this varnish like goo heats up as the engine is running and it tends to grab a hold of the crankshaft like a brake not allowing the engine to come up to full rpm's. Certainly it's worth a shot to run the engine to see if it's satisfying but as I mentioned, this procedure might be necessary.

This will happen to all our engines - even regularly used ones. It doesn't take long for the residue to build and this will prevent vital areas - particulary the crankshaft and bearing areas from being lubricated with fresh oil.

The smaller the engine - the worse the effect but there is a way round it. Most of my engines are diesels and I swear by castor oil but a lot of my pals are using alternatives with outstanding results but they can often bring other side effects.

I flush my diesels with paraffin and glows with methanol followed by a variety of oils. Gun oil, sewing machine oil - all depends what I have at the time. I als regularly re oil and turn them over.

However, the best clean I gave found is through running the engine with a synthetic oil fuel - it dissolves gummed castor without having to strip the engine. I have restored some engines where the castor has the appearance and properties of epoxy resin!

There is a warning here though - some synthetic fuels leave an acidic residue and steel parts will rust. Flush and treat with after run oil.

I stripped a really gummed up diesel after running with a synthetic fuel mix and the inside was spotless. The exhaust debri made me think the engine was falling apart and then on the second tank it cleared.

A further warning though is that an old, well worn, gummy engine benefits from the varnish. Removing it results in a clapped out engine - end of life.

So after all that rambling - what am I saying.

Don't let the engine gum up - flush it and lubricate it.

An alternative to stripping a running but gummed up a engine is running synthetic fuel through it. It works wonders but with Cox engines and diesels I would always return to castor and get used to a flushing regime.
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Post  Jason_WI Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:25 pm

I had no choice but to use an arbor press to remove the crank from the crankcase on this first version TD .049. The castor was hard and crumbled off the crank journal.

I make it a habit to completely dissemble every engine I restore. This includes removing the crank from the crankcase. Unless I determine it was un-run then I will just externally clean it and lightly oil it.

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Post  balogh Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:16 pm

I try to avoid removing the shaft from the crank because of the chances of destroying the thread in it when pulling the prop drive plate back on it tightening the prop screw on the prop.

I have a couple unrun engines that get gummed up in the storage. I spray some brake cleaning fluid through the venturi (if Tee Dee) and hand rotate the shaft until it frees up then add some fresh oil.
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Post  fredvon4 Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:19 pm

A few thoughts Jason and not intending to be critical of your arbor press method---- BUT

I prefer TeeDee / Medallions over reedies and it is ever harder and harder to find new or lightly used crank cases.... I can find every other part but a new crank case is getting into un-obtanium range

I happen to have a $9 Walmart crock pot and the right anti freeze and a good sized ultra sonic cleaner that I use mild solvents in

I bought a few TeeDees in questionable condition and several were as you describe... a few hours in the crock then 1 hour in the sonic cleaner broke up enough of the crud to safely remove without damage or scoring to the anodizing in the crank case bearing bore for the nose of the crank shaft

One was particularly tight and I ultra sonic ed the sucker in pure UCON 625 ( a good synthetic oil with a lot of castor varnish cleaning properties) and ran the sonic cleaner up to max temp, around 235F for 30 min and the crank fell out when I lifted the hot parts with a long nose needle pliers to get the assy out of the solution

I have maybe 5 crank cases that are too loose in the crank journal and one of these days I will pickle them in a anodizing mix to try and restore the bearing area

I think for occasional use, or just display, your method is OK but for all out performance and longevity I would shy away from forcing the HARD crud down the bore
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Post  cox24711 Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:57 pm

before I put my engines into storage I run them rich then I take them apart leaving the crank in the case on bees and then I assemble it and put sewing machine oil on every part.
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Post  Jason_WI Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:58 pm

I guess I don't see how dried castor is harder than anodized aluminum. The arbor press pushes straight down. No amount side load is on the crankcase.
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Post  pkrankow Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:13 pm

Overnight in denatured alcohol should soften that castor goo so there is less forces involved in general.

I doubt you did any harm pressing it out. You think through these things pretty well anyways.

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Post  fredvon4 Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:44 am

I guess my post sounded too critical and was not the real point of the thoughts from me...Jason (from his many posts here) is a good guy and has his method that works for him

I am always cogent that a LOT of folks lurk and learn so I was offering an alternative method that MIGHT be considered and why

TeeDee and medallion engines are highly sought after and keep getting more and more expensive

The two most prevalent failure modes are: Over speed punching the top of the rod through the piston crown, And hogging out the front bearing area of the crank case

To some extent, but not as common, is breaking the crank lower rod pin off.

And rarely but it happens, the nose of the crank breaks, usually from too short a prop drive screw

On each of the crank cases I have, with too much hogging out of the nose bearing, the cranks that came out were all in good condition and measured round and proper size...indicating to me the crank is hard enough to not wear and get smaller.

So in my mind the engines were probably run with too little lube or allowed to gum up and later run wallowing out the nose of the crank case

This is also an area where fine sand, grass or weed seeds and other crap can get in

So when I saw the example photo of one that was arbor pressed out; my first thought was that the dried castor and carbon (very hard stuff that carbon) was likely to score the inside bearing area promoting future wear

So That, and once upon a time I pressed out a crank on a larger engine with bushed front bearing with an arbor press that was seized real tight, and the bronze bushing was pressed out with it ruining the entire engine



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Post  gcb Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:52 pm

Often that "dried castor" is actually castor varnish which is much, much stronger. Spending time to de-varnish is worth the effort, whether you soften it with fuel, heat, antifreeze or some other method.

I've lost a couple of ball sockets trying to force it. Sad

George
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Post  WingingIt74 Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:51 pm

Easiest way I have found... Turn oven on to 200 degrees, place engines on cookie sheet covered with tin foil. Let them evenly warm up. Take them out one at a time and clean them up. Good project for a cold winters day.
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:10 pm

I used to use WD-40 for long term storage, worst choice I ever made in this hobby.  Year's later I got them out and every one was so gummed up that a complete disassembly and cleaning was required.  Now I completely disassemble and clean followed by a Remoil flush and compressed air blowout followed by reassembly and a touch of after run oil on the crank and cylinder then into a zip lock.    But I have read where some completely fill the crankcase with after run oil.  Over kill I think.

For short term storage I just flush with Remoil while holding with prop end down flipping, and blow out with compressed air.  No more gummed engines.  Smile

BTW, I never tighten the case screws or cylinder/head either leaving that for when I put the engine back into service.
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Post  ian1954 Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:45 am

One of my pals uses a gun oil on his large engines and a light sewing machine oil on his smaller ones. He religiously checks them all every three months and reapplies.

For engines that he has run, he doesn't put them away but leaves them in sight. His collection of antiquities is mostly diesel and when he is retiring one to storage he flushes it with paraffin (kerosene), shakes it about to remove the excess, leaves it on a radiator for a couple of hours ( stinks the house out!) and then oils it.

He warned me about WD40 - I use it quite a lot but as a de watering agent. If I have used anything with water on an engine or piece of metal I use it to effectively dry the metal prior to oiling it for protection.

I use it after blacking cylinders for example. If you don't they will rust.

WD40 is a good rust preventative for exterior surfaces but will dry out inside and stick parts together,
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