Cox Engines Forum
You are not logged in! Please login or register! Guests are limited to posting in the "General Questions (Guest Posting Allowed)" section only. Becoming a member is fast, easy and FREE!


Log in

I forgot my password

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Cox Engine of The Month
November-2017
MauricioB's

"Cox Tee Dee .010"



PAST WINNERS
Speed Contest 2018
CEF Traveling Engine

Gallery


Win This Engine!
The Traveling Prop
World of Aviation

Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Post  Robbasdog on Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:18 am

A question, guys...I've been scrolling through the many threads on identifying a genuine this-or-that engine, and while there is much valuable info I also find some contraditions, mostly about dates and cylinder numbers----soooo, is there a DEFINITIVE set of specifications to say what parts each engine left the factory with? Did COX ever keep such records?? Or did COX use a pick-n-mix assembly method, like Ducati did in the early '70s?
 The reason I ask is that I was looking at my collection of Cox parts and part-engines and I figure I have enough bits to make up 5 or 6 complete engines. There are still a few gaps in my collection I want to fill, but without knowing what goes with what in what year, all I'll end up with is a bunch of mongrel bitzers. Productive, maybe--but it won't satisfy the purist in me.
Cheers, folks.
avatar
Robbasdog
Bronze Member
Bronze Member

Posts : 39
Join date : 2016-01-09
Age : 61
Location : England, temporarily!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Serialized Cox engines

Post  706jim on Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:22 am

I think you are out of luck for the simple reason that the engines were too numerous and too cheap to have serial numbers.

Any manufacturer has to keep track of production by serializing the product and none of the Cox engines I own have any such numbers on them or their packages.
avatar
706jim
Gold Member
Gold Member

Posts : 187
Join date : 2013-11-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Post  fredvon4 on Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:02 am

I assume you know of Martin Hepperle aerotools web site and you should also refer to the wikkipedia page also for clues

As far as I know, there is no one place to see exactly each engine configuration and dates of MFG

http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/cox_frameset.htm
avatar
fredvon4
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Trusted Seller
Posts : 2211
Join date : 2011-08-26
Age : 62
Location : Lampasas Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Post  Cribbs74 on Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:11 am

As mentioned above, there is nothing that exists that is definitve. There is however, a load of info on here and on the web that will help. You can learn a lot just by looking around.

If you have specific question(s) just post them here and you will get the answer you are seeking. Lot's of experts in CEF.

Ron
avatar
Cribbs74
Moderator

Trusted Seller
Posts : 9521
Join date : 2011-10-24
Age : 43
Location : Tuttle, OK

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Post  pkrankow on Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:40 am

While pick-and-assemble was how it was done, the parts of certain styles were used, then once switched AFAIK the old style part was not used again.

There were also different product lines that were maintained. While many of the differences were cosmetic there were functional differences between certain parts. (stunt tank, etc)
Phil
avatar
pkrankow
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2914
Join date : 2012-10-02
Location : Ohio

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Post  fredvon4 on Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:39 am

Not the correct place for this but since I was on the Cox Wikki page I re-read through a few of the descriptions and saw this

1961 Tee Dee 051 (Cat#200 - Manufactured Oct 1961-Jan 1996)
The 051 was simply a Class A version of the engine, physically the same on the outside only the bore was different and the piston had a small groove in the skirt to bleed off just enough power to exactly equal an 049 so no trim changes would be required to free flight models (this groove also visually differentiates the 051 from the 049 but this was of secondary importance). The 051 also had a RED carb body.

I had never before heard that the grove was anything other than a way to externally Identify a .051 from a .049

I am not sure that the grove and where it is would bleed off any power
avatar
fredvon4
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Trusted Seller
Posts : 2211
Join date : 2011-08-26
Age : 62
Location : Lampasas Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Post  balogh on Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:31 pm

Fred,

refer to the other thread titled "051 groove ring lowers power?" running in parallel. I tried to explain there my opinion that concurs with yours i.e. the groove there is just for the visual differentiation between 049 and 051 calibers.
avatar
balogh
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1523
Join date : 2011-11-06
Age : 59
Location : Budapest, Hungary

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Post  Robbasdog on Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:31 pm

Many thanks to you all for the replies--and it's pretty much as I expected. I have been thinking lately about putting pen-to-paper and coming up with some engine-by-engine descriptions based on all the info available here and elsewhere, and post it for your verification or correction. With many contributors it would eventually become as complete and accurate as it's possible to be after all these decades. Since all of the info is public domain stuff I can't see any lawyers beating a path to my door for infringing any copywright laws...any legal boffins in the ranks, please correct me now if I'm wrong about that!!!
Of course, the people to talk to would be any ex-COX employees, the higher up the chain-of-command the better, but I don't imagine there are too many left now from the early days.
I'll buy a big notebook tomorrow.....
avatar
Robbasdog
Bronze Member
Bronze Member

Posts : 39
Join date : 2016-01-09
Age : 61
Location : England, temporarily!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Post  coxaddict on Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:09 pm

I too have assembled many engines from acquired Cox parts. This  forum has educated me to the point to where I can select the period correct crankcase, tank and back plate and even the drive washer to assemble a 50's, 60's 70's or 80's Babe Bee. I Love This Forum!
I used to buy Cox engine lots on ebay, disassemble and clean all the parts with no regard to keeping the parts together on an engine. Mostly because many of the engines had mismatched period parts any way.  I wired the crank to crankcase and the piston to the cylinder during soaking and cleaning because these parts were mated to each other. Babe Bee .049 Now the big question, was the 3 piece (piston, retainer and circlip) ever used by the factory in early Babe Bees?  Would it be correct with the crankcase without the retaining groove for the spring starter? Huh...  I know Cox kept using parts till they ran out before switching to new product/part.
avatar
coxaddict
Gold Member
Gold Member

Posts : 163
Join date : 2013-01-27
Location : north shore oahu, Hawaii

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Originality, or how to avoid a mongrel...

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum