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Post  1/2A Nut on Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:53 pm

Hey Jim,

How did you boating season go? Hope it was enjoyable!

I still want to do a 4 stroke rigger perhaps next summer.

Santa Christmas Tree Lighting The Tree Santa Rudolph Snowman
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Post  706jim on Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:26 pm

The boating season was short. I hope to do more next season. 6 months of winter up here!

I'd love to hear your 4 stroke outrigger when/if you get it built.

To me the best outrigger would have a Conley V8 for the ultimate in sound.
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Post  1/2A Nut on Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:25 pm

Oh ya the more cylinders the better woot!

Here is my Saito 72 rigger rendering big long lanky
for running at my local boat club. Made to handle the
lake when the wind is coming at the shore with chop.
I have been gathering all the gear for it. Ram air cooled
with a small elect fan to insure constant air flow is the plan.
There is enough power to hit 70 mph.


O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 Post-210


Rudolph  Christmas Tree  Rudolph  Snowman  Santa  Lighting The Tree  Rudolph  Snowman  Christmas Tree
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Post  1/2A Nut on Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:43 pm

Did do up the Picco .05 rigger this summer

Some media 43 mph so far only tried 3 props prior to
winter weather the build was completed just in the nick
of time to test on 3 separate outings.

1st test run



2nd outing to the club




O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 Imag4010


Christmas Tree Lighting The Tree Christmas Tree Rudolph



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Post  706jim on Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:08 pm

What rpm does that little Picco turn up to? I've always been concerned about over revving or overheating marine engines out of the water. That one was just singing at times.
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Post  1/2A Nut on Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:44 pm

The no load on the bench 49,891 rpm 2nd vid.
The Italian engine can hack it. The highest
peak ever recorded 50.6k ish. I peak then
back off the needle a bit running on the water
the surface air is cool. Engine is water cooled
using aluminum tube coil.

Picco P-Zero .05 / .85cc engine 2nd Vid - Cut Octura to 1426 detongued
RPM higher than the stock X427 prop, best pass 36,980 rpm loaded.
Med lift prop. 30% nitro / 20% castor. Best pass 43 mph.
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Post  706jim on Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:41 pm

50,000rpm without self destructing is impressive. Guessing that your little Pico does NOT use a ball and socket piston/conrod joint.

Reading a post n RC universe recently, I learned that it should be possible to marinize an OS FS30 due to the fact that the larger cylinder bore allows the piston to be removed (after removing the liner) without the wrist pin needing to be extracted. (The FS20 and 26 require this to be done which would mean the engine would be essentially unserviceable after the conversion).

So, I just have to decide if I should attempt this conversion to an FS30 that I presently have in a 1/6th GP Cub on floats.

If I end up doing this, the 30 would end up in a Dumas Ski Daddle 2 that I built in 1973.

And would keep this thread percolationg. Smile
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Post  roddie on Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:36 pm

I enjoyed those vids immensely Brad! As you may remember, I have a rigger-build in the works.. and have a couple questions. Curious about the starter and belt. I will need to obtain these items. Do you use a pillow-block/bearing in the hull, for support while cranking?

I too was surprised at how long you ran the engine on shore. Does the pipe help to carry some heat away from the top-end?

My rigger is a lot smaller, and is planned for a Cox reed-valve engine installation. I bought some Aqua-Craft plastic props that are replacements for their "Reef-Racer" mono. They may be too much prop. Their pitch isn't stated.. but the diameter is 1.108". Their Reef-Racer (15" mono) is powered by a 380 brushed electric.  

O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 Dsc03716

They come two to a package. I also bought the Reef-Racer drive-shaft and stuffing-tube.. just in case it happens to work out.

O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 Dsc03717
O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 Dsc03718

Not sure how/if any of this will work with a Cox reedie.. but I hope it might. As for the engine.. I have options.. with the highest-performance being configured with a "Killer-Bee" style back-plate, Tee Dee-ported cylinder with high-compression head. I have Dumas 1/2A flywheels/U-joint.. that I hope to adapt to the Aqua-Craft running-gear. I think I'd need a 2.9mm to 1/8" coupler.. if I could find one. The Aqua-Craft driveshaft is .113" dia. I need to build or buy/modify a strut as well. Not sure what I'm going to do there. I'd prefer a simple "bolt-on" because of my lack of experience. If I can even get it to run.. I'll be happy!

Any thoughts on using those Aqua-Craft props as they are? I have absolutely no experience here.. but I figure they might be better than the standard 1" Dumas #3001. I "do" have some of those too.

Thanks for any advice Brad. I really love watching the vids of all your models!
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Post  1/2A Nut on Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:31 pm

Thank you guys much appreciated.

Hi Jim,
The Ski Daddle II would be the right size mono for the job for sure.
I may dirty dog some aluminium tube laced around the engine between
the cooling fins in conjunction with a small fan over the crank case.
Percolation is good. There is the Saito 30 I have one lovely engine too.

Roddie,
The RC car engine with bearings and can handle the on shore
duration prior to launch. The tuned pipe is isolated from the header pipe via
the silicon coupler gap is less then 1mm to avoid vibrations rubbing the aluminum
parts creating black goo. The prop is a bit aggressive even for TD .049 but ok with a TD .09
See my thread and the prop mods I do to reference size. You can do the same, those are most
likely 1.4 pitch props. The Dumas prop is for submerged drive no good for a surface drive.
The last prop pic on my thread will be tried next. Bare in mind the engine in my rigger makes
almost double the power of a TD .049 For a TD .049 a 1.4P x 25mmD would be a good start based
on my past use with the cox engines back in the day. Your first rigger should be based on a scaled
down design of a proven outrigger designer. Rigger size for reed power 65w engine around 16in long
or a very narrow lanky 22" with narrow sponsons. Your first boat is a big learning curve getting it to
run is a win. I use a fishing pole and practice rubber weight to retrieve my boat. A pond is a good
place to run the small ones should the engine stop out on the water the wind will float it to shore
close enough to cast out and retrieve it.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2738171-Picco-P-Zero-85cc-Rigger-with-Profi-1-2A-Tuned-Pipe
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Post  roddie on Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:28 am

Thanks Brad. I'll need to read-through that RCG-thread again. I think I'm in the ballpark as far as rigger-size for a Cox Reedie.. although it's not of a proven design. It's 16.5"L less the strut.. which I don't have yet. Width is 8.75" between the outboard-sides of the sponsons. I realize, none of that means too much at this point.

O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 Dsc02313
O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 Dsc02315

I made lots of parts on a CNC router. Mostly foam-board with a .030" Styrene hull-bottom that wraps up-over and around the bow. The transom is 6mil PVC and there is a cored 3mil PVC floor-reinforcement that supports PVC engine-mounts.

I made-up two different sponson-profiles. The ones shown have an angled-step. Not sure how that will work out.. but my feeling was, that it would help with stability?? The other sponson-profile is a square 90 degrees. Swapping is as easy as removing the four pins in the booms.

Is 65w about the most power that a Cox .049 reedie will produce on a good day? I'd likely be running Sig 35% fuel.

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Post  1/2A Nut on Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:18 pm

You can do a nice aluminum tube coil around the engine starting just above the exhaust
catching the first cooling fin. Ease to screw off if you have to replace the glow plug. I hand
rap around the cylinder then remove and gently reduce the dia. of the coil so you get a spring
effect allowing a tight fit when screwed back in place.  Not only cools better but the tight fit reduces
the black goo generated by vibrations wearing down the aluminum coil. I highly suggest exhaust throttle
you for sure want control over the engine to bring it back to shore when the fuel gets low. How are you sealing
all that thin paper skin over the foam board material? Water gets inside the sponsons with ease if the tube is just
press fitted thru. Vibrations vibrations vibrations and nitro nitro nitro will destroy a weak design over time or within
a few runs. One bad hit going over a twig or such can take it out. Weight is everything from static floating to speed.
Nylon washers rather than steel is a plus. I use a balloon for my RX seal where the wires bundle comes out I rap a
rubber band around it to seal. When you have a design you like ply or balsa build will make for a tough enough rigger
that wont crack open or split allowing water intrusion. There have been elect. riggers out of foam doing over 35 mph.
Anything is possible. I use to use spray epoxy for kitchen appliances to help avoid oil / nitro destruction.  

For your starter belt you can get the following which is sized right for small 1/2A boats. I use them they
grip great. When pulling up on the flywheel with the starter belt you will lift the front of the engine causing
wear. You can put a hold down strap over the front portion of the crank case. 20% castor to make it last.
The hole in the Dumas flywheel is over bored. There is a tad bit of slop, the spinning mass will wear down
the aluminum crank case. I used some thin heat shrink to get a tight fit to avoid excessive wear.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Tamiya-Aramid-Belt-Blue-TA05-53897-/390999327410?hash=item5b096042b2:g:07AAAOSwiCRUiKlm

If you can get a vid of the run you can review and adjust things as needed but if you do record the rigger on the water
you will be the 2nd person in North America to ever document via vid a actual running 1/2A rigger on Youtube.
So far me for North America
1 in France (rigger)
1 in Australia (rigger)
1 in Germany (his is a hydro without the booms)

I have on order one of these for a 1/2A project.
HobbyKing - Wooden Sponson Race Boat Kit (495mm)

It's a straight forward design there are kits still out there from various vendors. Uses ply.
The size is good for Cox .049 engines. I payed $32.89 to the door for it. I prefer scratch
building, this will be a low fuss easy build with less to do so worth a go.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/wooden-sponson-race-boat-kit-495mm.html

O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 S-l50010

O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 S-l50011

Beer Cheers
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Post  roddie on Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:53 pm

Thanks again Brad. I remember your previously mentioning the hole in the Dumas flywheel being slightly big. Maybe the same flywheel is used on the Cox Medallion/Tee Dee .09's which use a 6-32 machine-screw in the crank?

Have you ever tried "friction-wheel" starting? I figured that the knurling on the flywheel was meant for that option. I thought about possibly installing a pair of rollers (nylon?) in a bulkhead/cradle below the flywheel and straddling-it, to relieve some pressure on the crankcase when friction-wheel starting. It might even be effective "above" the flywheel for belt-starting.. as long as a slight gap can be maintained. These things add weight.. I know. I'm in the habit of working a drop or two of light-oil in behind the prop-driver before cranking my aero-engines electrically.

This rigger was originally meant to be experimental.. to test the building materials as well as the Cox-powered drive. I'd previously built (1992) a Dumas "Short-Stuff" (Mahogany/Birch) for a Graupner EP mono-drive and had a lot of fun with it. Around that time.. I also bought the Dumas 18" AVL hydro for 1/2A power. My goal is to power it as was intended.

My rigger uses sign-grade/open-cell polyurethane foam-core with .015" styrene facers. The hull sides are 3/16" and the sponsons are made from 1.5". The hull is assembled with film-tape.. and will be sealed on the inside with adhesive caulk. The sponsons are raw-foam top/bottom that will need a smooth skin applied. The vertical-surfaces have the styrene-faces. The boom-tube spacers and outside washers bear on the styrene skin. I could skin the sponsons' exposed-foam with 1/64" plywood, which I have on hand.. but I'd rather not use any wood if I can help it. I've thought about a few skinning-methods.. but am restricted by the raw-foam currently. I need to seal-it with something before proceeding. Whatever "that" is.. needs to be smooth or sanded-smooth.. and not attack polyurethane foam. Maybe applying thinned-epoxy with a spreader would be the way to go? It's not a submerged surface at speed.. so it needn't be like glass.

You asked about "paper" and how I'd seal it.. but there is no paper used in the construction. It's all foam-board, styrene and PVC parts thus far.

I do plan on throttling the engine. My PVC engine-mount's firewall piece is pre-drilled for a Bee tank backplate with a center-hole/guide and boss drilled-thru for a venturi-plunger-needle. I've done some tests with the Ace throttle.. using the marine engine-mount.

Perhaps you've seen this comical vid...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy9o2WDzLqc



LOL.. I still laugh when I watch it. God Bless my wife. She's actually very tolerant of my model activities.

That venturi-throttle "concept" is an option. I tried non-conclusively to test a larger (.082" air-inlet) venturi and plunger.. but had issues getting my engine to even run that day. The muffler in the vid is my own design. I do have an exhaust throttle-sleeve and the cylinder for it. It's a single-bypass #7 cylinder.

I designed the modular PVC engine-mount and its floor-support to provide quite a bit of fore/aft adjustment.. and there's plenty of space up-front for the tank, radio and servos.

There's a reservoir down the street (walking-distance) for trials. I can't fly C/L without driving a few miles. That's the allure of model-boating for me. I just need to get it done. I have rescue-boats and would definitely outfit one with some sort of retrieval-device such as a buoyant "Y" frame attached to its bow.

Thanks once more, for the interest/hints/advice Brad. I hope I can have a report before too much time passes.



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Post  1/2A Nut on Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:21 pm

Roddie don't you play guitar in a band?  

I bought a Tonewood Amp for my acoustic wow you got to try one amazing stuff!!!!!!
Pure organic sound out the sound hole no amp to plug into it allows you to walk out on the
back porch and inspire new tuna without plunging in. Here is a raw cut sample from a cell phone no editing,
attached to the back of the guitar using internal 4 post magnet aray so you can pop off the gadget
in a heart beat. Has a elect. coil with a rubber foot that sends vibrations on the back of the guitar using
your guitars built in pickup or a mic signal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu1kh_FaKH0



Published on Sep 20, 2016
Setup:
Martin & Co. Indian Rosewood GPCPA4
Elixir Phos. Br. Medium Gauge strings

Recorded using my Samsung Galaxy S6 smartphone (no professional mics or post-sweetening/EQ)
Get your hands on one of these magical gadgets over at:
http://www.tonewoodamp.com/


I had to add a magnetic pickup and mic combo to my Takamine it is a GD 20 NS with satin finish for
max clarity. Using a Homeland HL 181 great sound from this sound hole system. I have about 8 recordings
with it using a large diaphragm studio mic shawweeet sounds from the Tonewood requires no other additional
effects going thru a Behringer Eurorack EQ.

O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 20170110

O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 20170111

I can tuck the cord through the guitar and out a traditional 1/4th plug guitar strap jack.
This was just to test it out worth doing the full install next.
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Post  roddie on Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:09 pm

That's impressive and ingenious! Imagine being the creator(s).. I can't imagine what the sales #'s will be. Musicians who play acoustic, greatly outnumber electric-players.. and most electric players love playing acoustic.. and usually have one. It's a real nice effect for a solo-player.. whether performing.. or writing riffs while chillin'-out.

I have an acoustic.. but I'm a keyboard player. Guitar confuses the #$%& out of me. The guitar I "found" in its case.. up-against a dumpster where I lived years ago. It's a Yamaha FG-340T.

O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 Dsc03719

Martin and Takamine are beautiful instruments. A neighbor who recently moved to FL had several.. as well as a custom acoustic made somewhere in the Northwest US.

I didn't know that you were a Musician Brad! That's good to know, for when we have the CEF Summit...... Popcorn .. . There's several of us who play! I'm the only keyboard player here that I know of. How cool it would be... if there was interest in a gathering of our international members for a weekend shoot-out/swap-meet.. jam-session.. at an undisclosed-location, somewhere on the globe? Summertime.. or Wintertime.. one weekend.. 2 full days/nights.. with on-site lodging...  Shocked

I digress... and have a few model-rigger questions..  Smile I'd ask them in a PM..  but other Cox boaters might want to know. I'm wondering how far from the transom, my prop should be.. and whether the stern-tube exits' exactly at the step of the transom and parallel with the hull.. when applying a surface-drive?

Can I forego a strut for the stern-tube? It seems I've seen that applied. The rudder has it's own strut assembly centered behind the prop.

I know that you choose to water-cool your Cox marine-engines. The Cox surface-vehicle models with .049 reed-valve engines furnished a heat-sink/clamp around the glow-head to "help" cool their slow/geared-down operation. The question is; could it adequately cool an open-cowl reed-valve engine on the water? I'd like to think so. It would really simplify things. I feel that the heat-sink clamp dissipated most of the heat in those surface-drives.. which were partially; if not mostly enclosed.

I'd really just enjoy getting the model up on the step.. and planning-out at any speed.

I know all too well about the lack of vids on this model-boating class. Kudos to you.. for representing the US with your models.
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Post  1/2A Nut on Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:50 pm

Wow free bee guitar what a find! I guess some folks upgrade and don't
care to keep their older guitar. I keep mine out of sentimental reasons
I guess with a collection of 5 currently. If you can learn 4 to 5 cords
amazing enough there are at least 140 popular songs over the last
65 yrs. derived from them. I grew up with a piano would love to own
one myself. I have been looking at the portable ones with weighted keys
as an option with pedals.

The prop should be out past the transom will help give you a better stance
for stability as the rigger will be riding on the prop and front sponsons.
The simple setup is just having the brass tube exit the bottom edge of
the transom. The advantage is the tub or hull of the back end will help
support the prop some as it gets up to speed and if lucky rides on the
prop lifting the transom completely out of the water. Weight being such
a killer of performance the simple set up will save weight for sure. Racing
riggers have a turn fin up front on the right sponson to help turn fast.
Since you just want to free run your rigger having the rudder behind
the prop is ok for equal authority to turn left or right. Note however
the prop turns counter clock wise and so will favor right hand turns.
Imagine the blades as paddle wheels it drives the back end of the rigger
to the left called prop walk. Some folks have flipped their rigger trying
hard left turns. A wide stance sponson set up with help keep it stable
and allow sharper turns. A bit of grease in the drive shaft will help
keep water from running up the drive line into the boat. Here is a vid
of my strut-less outrigger they can pop up on the prop with enough
power. You can pause it when I show the back end of the rigger as
to see how I set up the drive and rudder. Smaller rigger on a micro
size 10g brushless motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBVdf1kwoXk


Back in the day before surface drive was discovered to be faster
and more stable the prop would be semi submerged as shown
the prop would produce enough lift to blow out the tip of the prop
creating a rooster tail. Stance is less so stability was less made
for some risky driving if too much power was added.

O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 14865x10

.049 drive shaft by Dumas will work with your coupler and flywheel, both ends are threaded.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dumas-2604-Shaft-Stuff-Box-1-8x10-5-2604/172390855267?_trksid=p2060778.c100276.m3476&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140725133649%26meid%3Dfe5fd7d4e85245a0b579a89276303adb%26pid%3D100276%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D291130165751

O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 S-l16017
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Post  roddie on Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:05 pm

Take a look at the "Previa" (Casio) digital pianos Brad. I'm on my 2nd.. and can say that they're dependable. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 2nd-hand one. Mine get quite the work-out.. because I have a heavy playing-style. The piano new costs $600.. (PX 330/350 model ref.)

PX330.. (my 1st Previa)

O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 Privia10

and the 2nd.. a PX350..

O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 Privia11

The first (PX330-circa 2010) developed malfunctioning touch-sensitivity in an area of the keyboard where I lay-into some heavy rhythm-reinforcement when playing in the Southern Rock band. It held-up for 5 years of heavy gigging though.

Its replacement; the PX350, (circa 2015) is virtually the same instrument. Some buttons/switches are re-arranged. Both have amplifiers/speakers to naturally replicate the sound of an acoustic piano in the average small room of a home. Both have 1/4" ins/outs for audio.. with the inputs gain being controlled by the master volume. This is how you would output to an external-amplifier if desired.. as well as connecting an additional audio source. I connect a 1/2-rack size Kurzweil "Micro-Piano" piano module via MIDI interface/cable for layering-in its piano/organ/string samples for a fatter sound.

Do you know of the "Digitech" Vocalist Live 4 effects-pedal? I have one.. bought new about ten years ago. It's marketed toward the solo-guitar player/vocalist who wants to harmony-vocals.. without hiring singers. A pick-up would be required for an acoustic-guitar.. to provide an audio-signal. A processor in the unit converts/analyzes the signal to digital.. and assigns a tonal-value for harmonics.. depending on the chord-structure. For instance; it will "flat" the 3rd.. when it hears a minor chord being played on the instrument. "MusIQ" is Digitech's  patent on this effect.

Here's a demo of mine... using my old Technics PX-103 for a pitch-reference. The piano is muted for my rendition of this classic Eagles acappella  short-take..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsoGQ2hM5s



just lost several marine-model related paragraphs.. DAMMIT! I'll write again later.. Rolling Eyes
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O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 Empty Re: O.S. FS 40 Marine

Post  roddie on Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:36 pm

Here's an Alesis 88-key digital-piano ad that I just received tonight via email..

https://www.amazon.com/Alesis-Recital-Beginner-Full-Size-Semi-Weighted/dp/B01DZXE9NC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1482420161&sr=8-2&keywords=alesis+recital

Personally.. I'd spend another $400.. and buy the Privia for it's "fully-weighted" keys.. and proven reliability.
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O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 Empty Re: O.S. FS 40 Marine

Post  1/2A Nut on Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:04 pm

Nice thank you for sharing the piano info and the digitech good job!

Doing a search Casio Privia PX-160 Digital Piano fully weighted keys is a must.
Price is not bad, best new $449 to 499 for a tone worthy grand piano emulation
is really all I would generally use it for.
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O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 Empty Re: O.S. FS 40 Marine

Post  706jim on Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:36 pm

Your Tonewood amp sounded lovely. Seeing as this thread is somewhat derailed, here's one of mine. No fancy playing but (IMO) great guitar tone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJrY_UoKzTM&feature=youtu.be
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O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 Empty Re: O.S. FS 40 Marine

Post  1/2A Nut on Sat May 19, 2018 3:04 pm

Hi Jim anything in the works for this years boating season?

2 wks ago I received a Magnum XL .30RFS
I bought it because it has a low end needle valve for more precise / consistent idle.
Something the Saito .30 and OS .26 does not have. New in the box for $95 there
is enough gap between the rods and case to weave through some aluminum tube
for water cooling. I am thinking a Crackerbox would be great with the low idle and
brass flywheel it should launch from idle with no fuss and dock with ease. The mild
V bottom tends to dance around a lot so good for small pond use with low noise using
a 70 size muffler as shown should breath well and make good power.

O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 Imag7612
O.S. FS 40 Marine - Page 2 Imag7611

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