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Just not hard wired for R/C?

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Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  OhBee on Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:55 pm

After decades of dreaming of it...this morning was my maiden R/C flight. All 5 secs. of it! Always wanted to do this as a kid but could never afford it. Hand launched , some slight up elevator, and then a gust of wind out of a previously calm morning, flipped the plane into an instant snap loop 10 ft. off the ground, followed by uncontrollable gyrations. All my brain had time to do was chop the throttle...which was follower by another gust that stalled it and it did a straight down nose plant 10 ft. from me! Not exactly what I had envisioned. Simulator time and weeks of visualization with a transmitter in hand went completely out the window in panic mode! Fight distance....maybe 30ft. total. Flight duration...5 seconds! Conclusion... plane too small/light for conditions....or my brains computing power and my coordination have gone to pot in my old age! This was the calmest conditions we've had here in mos. Seems like the wind never quits! So..... my dreams and all the anticipations I've had, have been somewhat dashed! If I can't even fly the simplest trainer made...is there still hope? Or do I stick to planes on strings? Which I also havn't done since the 60's!
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  NEW222 on Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:31 pm

That sucks man. But, on the other hand, I know the feeling, many times over. If I may ask, what were you flying for an airplane. There may be hope yet. Shocked I will link the plane I, along with probably hundreds of people, built and learned to fly on. It is, however, electric. So, if what you got is electric powered, you may very well be interested in this thing. It is available in sizes from 24" to 60" I believe. I have not visited the thread in a while, so more options may be available in the thread. It can be built with either 3 or 4 channel control. Mine is the standard 33" 3 channel design.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=681556
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  RknRusty on Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:38 pm

Oooh Bee, OhBee, I feel your frustration lol! Try it again RC Plane.
Have you got a wreck resistant plane, held together with rubber bands? I bet a big floaty model is the best idea. The guys that fly RC make it look easier than it is. I have done it once with a soft foam mid-engine 3 ch electric trainer. I managed to fly it away across the field, turn and come back, then got mixed up and boinked it. I haven't tried it again, but always wished I had.
Good luck on your next try.
Rusty

EDIT: Oh, New pitched in while I was writing, but I'll post it anyway.

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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  OhBee on Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:56 pm

OK...I hate to admit this....but my attempt was with a Champ! It doesn't get much simpler. My plan was to get the hang of it with this before attempting to destroy my PT-17!
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  NEW222 on Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:19 pm

Ok. That just makes things much more clear. I have one as well. They are a great flier, but ZERO wind is best. I can now safely play with it in some wind, but for learning on, it can be tougher. Early mornings and late evenings are the best times, and when I mostly fly mine. Tape, and a bottle of Polyurethane Gorilla Glue (the white/clear is quicker and nicer, but the dark original will do) will do you just fine for any repairs of the little bird. Mine has been to the depths of heck and back, and still going strong. Sorry, as I do not think the link above has anything for that set-up. Hope you don't lose faith and have at it again and again till you get it, cause you will! Very Happy
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  NEW222 on Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:24 pm

And another thing. As a default, the Champ comes to you in 'high rate', which does also not help matters. Put it into 'low rate' and the surfaces will not move as far in either direction. I was going to pot how, but just copied from the manual, page 10.

The included 2.4GHz DSM2/DSMX transmitter features dual rate capability. The
default setting is high rate. To access the low-rate function, press IN on the right
stick. The LED light on the transmitter face will blink, alerting you the transmitter
is on low rate. To return to high rate, push in again on the right stick.

Giver' again and let us know how it goes.
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  OhBee on Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:33 pm

Yah....I know they require very little or no wind for best results. Which is what I had until shortly after launch! I didn't want to destroy my "good stuff" right away...yes I have already accumulated a squadron. HA! ,and I can't even fly! Maybe I SHOULD have started with my 48" Super Cub with "SAFE"! Though I doubt it would have saved it in this case! I was considering building a cheap blue or pink foam board plane...but most of my hobby stuff is in storage due to my present living situation. Not much room in a motorhome!

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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  OhBee on Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:40 pm

Oh...and I knew about the low and high rate. I left it in high purposely in case I needed fast evasive maneuvers, (TREES!) so much for that. Perhaps a rolling ground takeoff would be better. It's a swamp around here with hardly any flat ground,I need to get a sheet of plywood!
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  OhBee on Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:44 pm

Next SUPPOSEDLY calm day is next Tues! SW wind at 6 mph. .....so they say. Do those boys out in the Dakotas EVER get to fly? It always blows out there!
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  1/2A Nut on Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:48 pm

Is there anyone you know that can take it up for a trim flight and then pass over the sticks?
If so this is a great way to make the day happen.


Small movements with the sticks should be enough but this size plane needs to have a calm day
or early morning or late in the after noon time frame to find the winds down.

This guy claims he has never flown RC planes first day out flight review.

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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  NEW222 on Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:18 pm

Wind conditions you describe are similar to here in Manitoba. I do not rise off ground here either. My champ has the gear, but never use it, only hand launch and nose over landings in the grass. If you were seriously considering a blue or pink foam plane, take a look at the link I posted earlier for the Blu-Baby. That would be exactly what you're looking for. Can also be built from foamboard bought at Dollar Tree, only not as durable as the Fan Fold Foam used in the original construction, but in your case, 50 feet of 2' x 4' panels would not help your cause. Your Cub would however handle the winds you are encountering by your description, and would be more stable and easier to control. 'Bigger Flies Better' was something I have heard years ago, but did not believe it till I stepped up from the little guys.
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  NEW222 on Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:22 pm

OhBee wrote:Next SUPPOSEDLY calm day is next Tues!  SW wind at 6 mph. .....so they say.  Do those boys out in the Dakotas EVER get to fly?  It always blows out there!

You don't need to tell me. I just got back from Fargo ND, and Moorehead Mn the other day, and wind going down to the US, wind while there, wind coming back home, and wind here too! It is truly getting sickening.
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:59 pm

5 sec is only slightly worse than my first attempt. I waited 17yrs and then I bought a hobbyzone RTF. Doinked it repeatedly. Finally got the hang of it, but the plane was mortally wounded. I only do CL for now, but would love to R/C some of the old Goldberg designs.

Keep at it! It will click. Crashes mean learning. I am a master at crashing!

Ron

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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  Mark Boesen on Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:47 pm

I don't know why we do it and i'm sure we're all guilty at one point in our learning curve, but it seems a common thought in model airplanes, be it u/c or R/c is that somehow having a lot of throw is going to help you, but in fact it's what gets you in trouble in the first place. Use low rates to learn on, fly in a area that is bigger than you need and don't fly in wind.

I don't fly much anymore and when i do its back yard stuff, still have my Champ, even though its beat to crap!

Here's a old video, i slapped a key fob camera on the Champ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4yssQK7j8o

Heres a great video of FULL throws https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdZVfGXOSVE&ebc=ANyPxKoEvj53rJ1vFMVZ_54lfcsB0vWYoCcpiv1pnVjTyWGXsCdBZdBEoN7s73ZH0spV5H_KQRdybc7XnhFk0vAl1RFkA78-tA&nohtml5=False
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  TDbandit on Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:32 am

Mark Boesen wrote:I don't know why we do it and i'm sure we're all guilty at one point in our learning curve, but it seems a common thought in model airplanes, be it u/c or R/c is that somehow having a lot of throw is going to help you, but in fact it's what gets you in trouble in the first place. Use low rates to learn on, fly in a area that is bigger than you need and don't fly in wind.

I don't fly much anymore and when i do its back yard stuff, still have my Champ, even though its beat to crap!

Here's a old video, i slapped a key fob camera on the Champ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4yssQK7j8o

Heres a great video of FULL throws  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdZVfGXOSVE&ebc=ANyPxKoEvj53rJ1vFMVZ_54lfcsB0vWYoCcpiv1pnVjTyWGXsCdBZdBEoN7s73ZH0spV5H_KQRdybc7XnhFk0vAl1RFkA78-tA&nohtml5=False
You got that right, I too used to believe that huge surface movements were better when i was starting out and of course found out otherwise. Low rates (duel Rates) are best for learning as well as altitude however when wind is involved more control is better in order to help counter the wind but as stated these tiny models are best flown on calm days which for some reason is hard to find this spring, wind has been over 20+ mph for the last week or so here in Georgia. If you are going to be teaching yourself to fly its best to get a sim like Realflight 7.5 and practice on it. Saves a tone of $$ in crashed airplanes and can get you past the biggest hurdle in RC and that is the dreaded control reversal which occurs when the model is heading towards you. Hope this helps! (Bandit) RC Plane
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  OhBee on Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:21 am

Thanks for the input guys! This episode has haunted me all day. But I think I've diagnosed some issues...one of which is underestimating the wind speed! And we have funky swirling effects around here due to random rows of tall pines for "windbreaks". If I have to wait for no wind at all...won't be getting in much stick time around here!
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  ian1954 on Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:47 am

I started out with a very similar plane and my first flight was a very similar experience.

In this instance I am not blaming the weather although that was a contributory factor. Sometimes, and it still happens to me now ( I have probably smashed more RC planes than anyone on this site!) , when you launch the plane - it is low to the ground and for whatever reason the unexpected happens - there are hundreds of reasons - gust of wind, model way out of trim, out of balance fore and aft, battery not fastened in properly, rubber band holding wing on snaps, replaced a receiver and didn't bother with a pre flight check ( ailerons and rudder crossed), control horn breaks .....................when people see me arriving at the local playing field they disappear!

Anyway, I digress as usual - the main reason for a prang when learning is PANIC. Maybe too strong a word but it is easy to over react and start thrashing sticks.

State of mind is important and a bad first experience can be very off putting. Sad  Learning on your own is difficult and until you can get the plane two mistakes high then take it easy. Stay calm Cool - stop the adrenaline taking over. Use the sticks gently!

Now wind is an issue - of that I have no doubt - last year I wrote off 9 planes and did numerous repairs. 6 of these were "Park Flyers" - under 18" wing span. The main reason - apart from me being a crap flyer with not very good eyesight - was because I took the plane too high above the tree line and the wind took it into the trees. Flying was fine below 100ft but above a struggle to bring the damn thing low. Thsi combined with excessive stick twiddling - Goodnight Vienna.

2 were 24 -30" wingspan and I had had these and flown regularly with them for over two years but I made changes. One I fitted an Orange  3 axis stabiliser receiver to it. I got the aileron settings the wrong way round - despite "checking" several times. When the wind came up I was fighting the ailerons and lost the plot.  Doh!

The second of these was a favourite of mine - I had had a hard landing with it - checked it over - everything seemed OK. I put another battery in it - after a couple of minutes response to the throttle became intermittent - then it went full throttle - so rather than mess about (my reactions now are not what they were - neither is my eyesight) - I spotted an opportunity and dove it into the ground. Aeroplane euthanasia!

I find the larger models easier to fly and more forgiving - particularly the Fun Flyers - I have yet to right off one of these although I have had to repair damage. These are 48" + wingspan though and take a bit of carting and assembly.

I have the plans for an Ellipse (and the wood) and am looking out for a Cougar. I have been reluctant to build my own because of the time it takes.

The two planes I fly the most at the moment are the Multiplex Parkmaster - (No I don't fly 3D) and a Handyman. They seem indestructable and are easy to fly - I misjudge landings all the time.

I found it difficult to learn with the small Park Flyers. The plane I found easiest - and still have is the Multiplex Fun Club. I have since fitted flaps to it and also a "Safe" receiver. After I haven't flown for a while - this is the model I turn to. This is also the model I wish I had started out with!

This gives you an idea of why I think it is easy to learn with. This chaps landing is also better than most of mine!




This young chap is nearly as good as like what I am. He has had this Fun Club for over two years.



Everyone has a preference. It depends on the conditions you have to fly in as well as your abilities.

Don't give up! When I get back from the local park I usually say that I have had a "Smashing Time"
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:05 am

OhBee wrote:After decades of dreaming of it...this morning was my maiden R/C flight. All 5 secs. of it! Always wanted to do this as a kid but could never afford it. Hand launched , some slight up elevator, and then a gust of wind out of a previously calm morning, flipped the plane into an instant snap loop 10 ft. off the ground, followed by uncontrollable gyrations. All my brain had time to do was chop the throttle...which was follower  by another gust that stalled it and it did a straight down nose plant 10 ft. from me!  Not exactly what I had envisioned. Simulator time and weeks of visualization with a transmitter in hand went completely out the window in panic mode!  Fight distance....maybe 30ft. total. Flight duration...5 seconds! Conclusion... plane too small/light for conditions....or my brains computing power and my coordination have gone to pot in my old age!  This was the calmest conditions we've had here in mos. Seems like the wind never quits! So..... my dreams and all the anticipations I've had, have been somewhat dashed! If I can't even fly the simplest trainer made...is there still hope? Or do I stick to planes on strings? Which I also havn't done since the 60's!

This is nearly exactly my experience. I dreamed of having an R/C plane back when I was flying control line as a teenager, but could never afford it. A couple of years ago I decided to realize the dream and got myself a Hobbyzone Super Cub. The first couple of attempts didn't go really badly and any damage was minor, but I just didn't feel comfortable. It seemed like I didn't really have full control and was scared to let it get too far away or too high. I know they say altitude is your friend, but I just found it disorientating. At my next flight I was sure I wasn't fully controling it. It seemed to have a mind of it's own and did things suddenly with no input from me, like sudden pitch up and stall, sudden loss of power etc. The results were more serious this time, although easily repaired, but my confidence was shot. I just can't trust those invisible waves which supposedly connect me to the model. I like to know where the model is and where it's going, hence my return to control line. The local R/C club who send me an email newsletter each month don't help either, because they have a couple of pages each month of the carnage at their club days. The majority of the descriptions of the accidents usually blame radio or battery failure. I don't have the time or the money to be rebuilding or replacing aircraft as frequently as they seem to. At least if I crash one of my C/L models I don't lose such a large investment.
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  pkrankow on Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:01 am

Indoor microlight seems to be the only RC I don't instantly break...

Bigger flies better outside. Get on a buddy box with other club members.

Phil
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  akjgardner on Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:46 pm

OhBee wrote:After decades of dreaming of it...this morning was my maiden R/C flight. All 5 secs. of it! Always wanted to do this as a kid but could never afford it. Hand launched , some slight up elevator, and then a gust of wind out of a previously calm morning, flipped the plane into an instant snap loop 10 ft. off the ground, followed by uncontrollable gyrations. All my brain had time to do was chop the throttle...which was follower by another gust that stalled it and it did a straight down nose plant 10 ft. from me! Not exactly what I had envisioned. Simulator time and weeks of visualization with a transmitter in hand went completely out the window in panic mode! Fight distance....maybe 30ft. total. Flight duration...5 seconds! Conclusion... plane too small/light for conditions....or my brains computing power and my coordination have gone to pot in my old age! This was the calmest conditions we've had here in mos. Seems like the wind never quits! So..... my dreams and all the anticipations I've had, have been somewhat dashed! If I can't even fly the simplest trainer made...is there still hope? Or do I stick to planes on strings? Which I also havn't done since the 60's!
I strongly sugest that you get someone to put you on the buddy box. You will be soloing in no time.
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  fredvon4 on Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:40 pm

OhBee

Posted elsewhere on CEF is my return to model airplane history..the cliff notes

As a young man I got the bug and flew what we could afford... but always was envious of the RC guys as I flew my 1/2a and later .35 sized CL models...I loved building and flying what I made....but at the time, late 60s early 70 they were starting to get very cool RC radios and not fussing with giant clunky systems....but the cost was out of reach

A few years back when I retired we had done well in life and I had the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (ok an extreme exaggeration) to relive my youth

I Bought the latest and greatest Futaba radio/receivers/servos and a Tower Hobby .60 high wing trainer....noticed that the Super Tigre 90 was same weight as the .60 they sold so I got the ST-90, batteries, chargers, fuel, and props...OH yes a field box, power panel, 9 AmpHr 12 VDC battery, tools, glues, monoKote, rubber bands, covering iron and on and on......

Local RC club has a new pilot program so I joined and promptly got schooled to buy a (Tower hobbies) HobbyCo electric high wing electric trainer

Each and every time the instructor was available I went flying and I was ok at most RC flight but real quickly got bored

That is an entirely different facet to my personal desires... I quickly re-found CL flying and the BESG is always there when I get to fly

For you I highly recommend finding a RC club and doing their new pilot program..... simulators will get you only so far but you need to learn the brain to finger link and minute muscle memory of RC control....it really helps to have a mentor cuing you to Up Up Up! or Right Right Right!..or let go and it will level itself.....

Final thought if you must do it your self...spend the bucks for the new electric trainers with the auto save features

I personally prefer CL and IC engines but will support any person who wants to fly a model airplane, drive a car, or pilot a boat....even if only electron powered.....grin

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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  fredvon4 on Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:57 pm

PS to previous post

I am willing to package and ship the unused tower trainer, radio (Futaba 8FG), receivers, servos, and a ASP NIB 61 and some propellers to any CEF member for the low price of $250 .....I never used the 8FG but do re-charge the factory battery every 90 days.....no firmware updates or any mods to any of the equipment
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  OhBee on Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:08 pm

Thanks guys!.....ahh yes the panic mode... I started in the house with a micro coaxial helicopter( not fond of helis). Got the panic issue handled there for the most part. Yesterday when the SHTF I instantly chopped the throttle and hands off the sticks. Supposed to gently glide in...the wind had other ideas! Not much left for options less than 10 ft. off the ground! Some instant up elevater may have saved the nose plant... but my reflexes are not THAT quick anymore! Oh well... Waiting for another day!
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  fit90 on Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:03 pm

Don't give up. We all had some varying degrees of bad luck while learning to control the black art of r/c flying. I mostly taught myself. However, my learning accelerated very quickly when I got involved with other r/c pilots and accepted their help. I bet if you changed your learning plane to a two meter motorized glider and got some help, preferably with a buddy box, your luck would turn around very quickly. I wish you the best. It is a great hobby.
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Re: Just not hard wired for R/C?

Post  fit90 on Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:27 pm

An even better beginner plane would be a glider like a Goldberg Gentle Lady. Build it light and balance it according to the plans. You can start off by literally just throwing the glider into the wind while you stand on the ground and glide it to the ground. Once you have mastered basic control you can throw it from something high, like your mobil home, Then you can do a little more turning and such. As you get the hang of basic control you can install an engine pod and go from there.

Good luck,

Bob
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