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.O49 Cox? Question

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.O49 Cox? Question

Post  carbineone1964 on Thu May 12, 2016 3:42 pm

Not even sure if Testors used the Cox engines. But have a late 70s Galaxa IV Hovercraft and was needing to know what type of fuel to use and battery Voltage for the Glow Plug?

Would anything as far as fuel and Glowplug stuff work from Hobbytown USA possibly?

Guy says they have some fuel that should work..Thanks
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  pkrankow on Thu May 12, 2016 3:58 pm

Testors and Cox used different engines, however the glow head will interchange between the two. This also means that modern clamp-on glow heads may be used.

I use Sig Champion 25%. It is 25% nitro and 20% total oil.

The new Cox Super Fuel is good and available. It lists the fuel as 25% nitromethane 55% methanol 10% synthetic oil 10% castor oil. The old label with the lower oil load is not good, and hopefully is no longer available.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?I=LXDBNH&P=8

The key to being good fuel is the 20% total oil, no more than 10% synthetic oil (that is half synthetic, half castor) The castor is required to lube the ball joint on the piston which I am not sure if Testors used. 25% nitromethane makes for easy needle adjustment.

Hope this helps. Have fun!

Phil
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  Oldenginerod on Thu May 12, 2016 5:02 pm

pkrankow wrote:Testors and Cox used different engines, however the glow head will interchange between the two.  This also means that modern clamp-on glow heads may be used.

I use Sig Champion 25%.  It is 25% nitro and 20% total oil.  

The new Cox Super Fuel is good and available.  It lists the fuel as 25% nitromethane 55% methanol 10% synthetic oil 10% castor oil.  The old label with the lower oil load is not good, and hopefully is no longer available.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?I=LXDBNH&P=8

The key to being good fuel is the 20% total oil, no more than 10% synthetic oil (that is half synthetic, half castor)  The castor is required to lube the ball joint on the piston which I am not sure if Testors used.  25% nitromethane makes for easy needle adjustment.  

Hope this helps.  Have fun!

Phil
Actually the glow heads do not interchange between Cox & Testors engines.  The thread is a different size.  Heads can regularly be found on ebay, as can junk engine to use for parts.  Later Wen Mac engines use the same head.  They use standard 1.5 volts.  If you want to use standard 1/4" glow plugs then MECOA sell a head adaptor.
This should be your engine in the Galax.  The one pictured is missing the rear venturi.


Rod.
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  pkrankow on Thu May 12, 2016 6:54 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:
Actually the glow heads do not interchange between Cox & Testors engines.  The thread is a different size.  Heads can regularly be found on ebay, as can junk engine to use for parts.  Later Wen Mac engines use the same head.  They use standard 1.5 volts.  If you want to use standard 1/4" glow plugs then MECOA sell a head adaptor.
This should be your engine in the Galax.  The one pictured is missing the rear venturi.


Rod.

Thanks for the correction. I have only one Testors .049 myself.

Phil
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  carbineone1964 on Thu May 12, 2016 9:24 pm

Thanks, I do not need a new head or glowplug that I know of. I just need to know how much voltage to put to the glowplugs to get it to fire up. Just a 1.5 D cell will do it then?

How long would you run the glowplug prior to starting it. That one pictured sure looks like the one in the Galaxa.

I have not messed with this kind of stuff since I was a kid in the 70s..

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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  pkrankow on Thu May 12, 2016 10:40 pm

A D cell will do just fine. A couple in PARALLEL will do better, bt this is not necessary. Make sure you are only feeding the plug 1.5V A fresh alkaline battery is best.

My basic starting is to fuel, set the needle if needed, prime, flip a couple times, hook up the glow plug, flip for a start. I don't really wait between hooking up power and flipping. If I have to re-prime I normally leave the power connected.

If you are priming the exhaust, put the engine in a position that the exhaust is CLOSED. Hang a drop of fuel on the side of the piston. When the exhaust port opens the correct fuel will drop into the cylinder.

Phil
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  TDbandit on Fri May 13, 2016 1:01 am

Actually the Testers 049's do use the Ball/socket and the cox (New label) fuel or sig champion will be fine I have had quite a few of the engines however it doesn't hurt to add a bit more castor to the fuel since the metal that's used for the case/bearing is not the best. especially for the plastic cased PB engines that are found in the Fly 'em' models. (Bandit)
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  Oldenginerod on Fri May 13, 2016 6:52 am

I got a Testors Fly'em P-40 for Christmas one year as a kid.  It came with its own D cell battery and a small jar of fuel.  The battery was supplied with a clip/frame to attach the battery directly to the plug.  The fuel didn't last long and I tried to use my normal 5% nitro fuel I used in larger engines.  That thing never fired for a couple of years until a man in the toy department of a large department store recognized the problem & sold me some Cox 25% nitro fuel.  Fired right up on the Cox fuel, so I certainly recommend 25% nitro plus castor.  Mine ended up snapping a con-rod, which can be a weakness in them.
There has been a lot of discussion about how useless the Testors "Pipe Bomb" engines are due to the inability to mount them.  The Galax engine overcomes this problem by providing a rear radial mount with the same mounting pattern as a Cox Babe Bee.  Apart from the mounting impracticality they actually perform really well.
Found this over on RC Groups.  Might be handy.
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  Oldenginerod on Fri May 13, 2016 6:57 am

carbineone1964 wrote: That one pictured sure looks like the one in the Galaxa.
I actually have two of these engines, one complete and the other one as pictured is missing the venturi, which is just a snap-in plastic unit.  I have cut the venturi from an old Cox postage stamp backplate and intend to glue it in place.  No reason it shouldn't work.
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  carbineone1964 on Fri May 13, 2016 8:01 am

Thanks very much to all. I appreciate the help. Probably not a real valuable Toy. But I sure do want to screw it up. It is in good condition.

If I get it fired up, I will let you know later today how it runs and "works"

I will back either way, run or not, as I have a Cox Plane I need to fire up. Maybe you would be able to help there also.. It is the one with the little handle and strings for control. I had one when I was a kid in the 70s. Never got it to fly to good then however. Maybe I can now that I am wiser, LOL  Maybe they just never worked too good anyway.
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  pkrankow on Fri May 13, 2016 8:07 am

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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  kevbo on Fri May 13, 2016 10:42 am

Cox engines will run screaming lean peaked to max RPM,  and ask for more.

The Testors/Wen-macs were intended to be run at a fat needle setting, as you'd run larger glow engines.  

Open the needle until they start to 4-cycle, then close it until they go into a smooth two cycle.  If you peak the rpm like you would on a cox, expect very short engine life.
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  carbineone1964 on Fri May 13, 2016 2:54 pm

Well, good news and some bad news..

I started it up, it ran till the fuel emptied. It does not do a whole lot. Just kinda Hovers and bounces off things. Kinda neat though.

I then tried to restart it and discovered the Glow Head no longer worked. Something I did? Removed the plug. Hooked it to a D Battery when off and still would not glow again.

Anyway found a new one on Ebay. Says it fits all Testors. Should be here next week...Thanks
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  Oldenginerod on Fri May 13, 2016 4:26 pm

carbineone1964 wrote:Just kinda Hovers and bounces off things. Kinda neat though.
Yep, that's what they do. I did find the heads fragile, but in my youthful enthusiasm I probably hooked up too much voltage to try & make them start easier. Embarassed That didn't work. lol!
The new heads seem to be pretty expensive. Keep an eye out for parts engines and parts lots on ebay. These engines in not-running condition can be had for a couple of bucks.
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  carbineone1964 on Fri May 13, 2016 6:23 pm

Yeah, I paid like 12.00 shipped for the brand new one from Ebay.

It started really easy the first time and ran good. Went on the second attempt at starting. Maybe just a fluke it went at that time. Hopefully it will not happen to the new one.

Will the Battery clips for Cox engines work on the Testors. Maybe I grounded it out somehow using alligator clips. I do not even know if that would ruin it. But I was careful not to do so. I am confident the clips did not touch each other though.

Oh well, hopefully the next time goes better.

Thanks. I will let you know how the second attempt goes.
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  batjac on Fri May 13, 2016 10:30 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:I got a Testors Fly'em P-40 for Christmas one year as a kid.  It came with its own D cell battery and a small jar of fuel.


There has been a lot of discussion about how useless the Testors "Pipe Bomb" engines are due to the inability to mount them.  

I actually have a Fly’Em P-40 new in the unopened box.  I also have a Zero in the blister pack unopened.  The blister pack still has the fuel jar and the battery.  The battery must have died decades ago, and the fuel jar is just half full of amber sludge.  I keep getting the urge to open the P-40 box and pull out the little record in there with the starting/flying instructions on it and record it as an MP3 for posterity.

Actually, I find I like the pipe bomb engines.  They’re not hard to mount if you used a little ingenuity.  I made up one neat and tidy mount, and one quick and dirty mount.  Worked fine.  Using a Cox 5x3 rubber ducky I was getting 16,250 RPM from the Pipe Bomb engine.









Here’s the video of one running with the rubber ducky in the quick and dirty mount.  It was still in the 2-4 cycle break-in mode when I was shooting this, and my camera battery died before I got to the peak RPM phase.  




The  Ingenius Mark
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  batjac on Fri May 13, 2016 10:36 pm

carbineone1964 wrote:Will the Battery clips for Cox engines work on the Testors.

Worked fine for me.

The Fine Mark
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  roddie on Sat May 14, 2016 6:26 pm

Apparently.. the Galax IV model had no ducting that would allow for directional control.. but maybe a very small ball of modelling clay could be placed up and under the front-end for weight, which would allow slightly more air to escape from the rear and propel it forward.. Eyebrows

I did some looking around on the internet, and found some info. Here are scans of the instruction-sheets. I figured you might not have anything else to go on.








It's stated; that when this model is operating correctly (engine running strong)... that it hovers approximately 1" off the ground. If I had one.. I'd try taping a one-piece (seamless) skirt made of thin styrene sheet around the bottom perimeter that extends down evenly about 1/2" below the bottom. Make two vertical cuts at the rear in the center, to form an adjustable (bendable) exhaust flap. Maybe left-rear and right-rear flaps would allow for a sweeping circle?
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  kevbo on Mon May 16, 2016 11:15 am

The testers starting kit came with a clip that held a single D-cell, and I don't ever recall spending the extra to get alkylene batteries.

Perhaps the glow element relied on the internal resistance of that one little battery not to burn out?

Just a thought, and likely wrong. I had a couple as a kid and don't
every recall needing to replace a glow plug, and I'm sure I used an 8 D-cell bundle on them at least a few times.
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  pkrankow on Mon May 16, 2016 11:50 am

As long as the glow plug or glow head is given only 1.5v or less it will not burn out. When the voltage is increased problems happen.

Now, over compression is harder on the element than the battery, even 2 or 3 or 8(?!) strapped together in parallel.

Phil
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  kevbo on Mon May 16, 2016 12:21 pm

pkrankow wrote:...or 8(?!) strapped together in parallel.

Yup, when I was a kid, I'd wait until Radio Shack had a cheap sale on D-cells and pick up eight. I think they came wrapped in pkg. of 4. That would usually last me a year or so. No.6 cells were still available in those days, but they were fiendishly expensive, and usually near end of shelf-life when I got one. The 8x D cells was based on approximating the weight of a No.6 cell. They were carbon-zinc cells, so probably still more internal resistance than 4xD alkenes.

I'd solder them in parallel, and package it with scrap cardboard and masking tape (duck tape was too high dollar LOL! and I could use Dad's masking tape because it usually went bad before the roll was gone anyway) I had a little block of wood with two 6-32 brass screws and knurled thumb nuts that I'd move to the next set of cells when the first went dead.
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  carbineone1964 on Mon May 16, 2016 1:52 pm

Thanks for all the additional information,ideas and Instruction book.

I was digging around some old boxes of junk here at home and found a 2 D cell COX holder and some clips. Battery box says COX on it. Should work fine? Or is the Cox two cell too much? Maybe just put one Battery in it?

Should still deliver only 1.5 Volts the way it is wired. New Glowplug should arrive tomorrow. The guy listed another Testors Glowplug if someone happens to need one. He must have a stash of them..
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  TDbandit on Mon May 16, 2016 4:10 pm

carbineone1964 wrote:Thanks for all the additional information,ideas and Instruction book.

I was digging around some old boxes of junk here at home and found a 2 D cell COX holder and some clips. Battery box says COX on it. Should work fine? Or is the Cox two cell too much? Maybe just put one Battery in it?

Should still deliver only 1.5 Volts the way it is wired. New Glowplug should arrive tomorrow. The guy listed another Testors Glowplug if someone happens to need one. He must have a stash of them..
The Cox two cell holder will work fine, just make sure you install the batteries in parallel (pos to pos, neg to neg) or you'll blow the plug, in parallel the voltage remains the same regardless of how many cells are in the box but the capacity increases which helps the batteries last longer. (Bandit)
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Re: .O49 Cox? Question

Post  pkrankow on Mon May 16, 2016 4:17 pm

Looks like this?
http://coxengines.ca/cox-starter-battery-box-with-clip.html
these are pretty good. It will carry you through to anything with the cloths pin type clip, fits most engines even up to .60 size. Just a little bulky.

Phil
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