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November-2017
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"Cox Tee Dee .010"



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Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

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Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

Post  Cox International on Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:24 pm

http://coxengines.ca/cox-.010-tee-dee-engine-globe.html?&cat=40

It's authentic apparently but we would be interested if the number made was indeed 5 or more.
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Re: Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

Post  Mudhen on Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:22 pm

I’m always leery of a story.
Without any evidence to support the narrative, it’s just a story.
I never buy a story.

If I happen across an item that has a story without evidence, then I look at the product.
Is there anything about the product that would be difficult / impossible for someone to craft?
E.G.:
A product molded in an off-color. This would be similar to the pink AD-6 w/ signatures.
A cut away product. (W-196, or Champion.)
A factory built product that was usually sold as a kit - Curtiss Pusher. (Although in this case it’s in a factory, handmade box.)
.010 tie clip.
If I don’t have any evidence, or if the product is not something uncommon or out of the ordinary, then I’ll usually pass on it.

But they are tempting
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Re: Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

Post  Cox International on Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:34 pm

We have purchased many, many collector pieces from this seller and his integrity is beyond doubt. I am convinced that it is authentic but was trying to see how many were actually made.

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

Post  Marleysky on Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:44 pm

What is it they always look for on the "Antiques Roadshow "? Something called providence, or some type of  certificate of authenticity. Is there a letter that accompanied the award on Cox letterhead? Does the award have any type of Cox identification other than the engine? With only 5 being made, there may not be any traceable records of this, so you would have to rely on the sellers reputation.  It definitely is a unique display piece.  

If it sells at your asking price and you have more buyers than items, and they would want a "replica" of this unique Cox display, I'm sure I could get my BrotherInLaw to "turn" some walnut on his lathe that would use this as a plexiglass globe: https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/8041/3202-50630.html?utm_source=SmartFeedGoogleBase&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_term=3202-50630&utm_content=Clear+Globes+with+Neck+Opening&utm_campaign=SmartFeedGoogleBaseShopping&gclid=CL3Q2_bph80CFZKCaQodEW4FIA

Just sayin, In case you have a ton of requests.  Very Happy
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Re: Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

Post  Mark Boesen on Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:35 pm

I'll agree with Mud, separate the story from what your looking at.

I've never seen/heard of it before, but that's nothing, if Mud's never seen or heard of it that's something. The fact that the story is the same as the tie clips and the decals on box look like nothing i've seen before makes me wonder. That and i gotta wonder why you'd have a gift or award in a cheep brown cardboard box and not a white smooth cardboard? And the only decal is on the cardboard box???

My guess is it was made by a collector some 40 years ago and so much time has gone by nobody really knows, much like the colored tanks of the O.K. Cub 049A, reproduction Strato Bugs, etc.

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

Post  getback on Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:43 am

There was one of these on ebay , cant find it now maybe already sold , but the last time I had seen was over $500.00 I didn't read on it just figured some one had mounted a .010 under glass / way out of my budget ! Eric Small Cox Logo
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Re: Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

Post  Cox International on Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:58 am

We are the ones that bought the one listed on eBay. The seller is Gabi Schuhaibar (toys_tophobby) and I have no doubt as to the veracity of what he says. He was actually disappointed that it did not sell for more. He recently sold a Cox prototype for over $1,200 and seems to have lots of oddball and rare Cox stuff in his collection

Cox had a habit of making tiny runs of oddball stuff, so this globe 010 does not immediately raise a red flag.

Anyhow, the post was to see if anyone had ever heard of these. Seems not ... so far Huh...
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Re: Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

Post  Surfer_kris on Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:25 pm

Looks like a globe light with an engine attached to it, top it off with a scotch-taped logo to the original box of the lamp, and its done. Smile

I can't imagine that Cox would have produced something like that....
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Re: Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

Post  Cox International on Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:39 pm

We just contacted a long-time Cox collector (Robert Eierman, a retired aerospace engineer) who stated that he personally and physically saw several of these at the home of Dale Kern (former Cox engineer); whereas Dale told him that this was a promotional item made by Cox to award dealers. Only a handful of these were ever made, although the exact number remains unknown.

Yes, we remain convinced that this is an authentic Cox item.

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

Post  fredvon4 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:58 pm

I tend to believe the story as I have been in many organizations that had some poor employee..( me ) many times cuz of wood working skills, create some retirement, "Ya done good", or special promotion, prizes, participation, winner, type memorabilia

That the Cox company may have decided to have a best sales of the MONTH/YEAR/DECADE award of some kind would not be unusual in the company culture

I would bet only a few were made in the back room and presented... BUT I would also suspect here would be a accompanying certificate signifying the "award" to some specific individual

My hard to imagine part of this is THAT a recipient might dispose of the award...but on the other hand a family member of a deceased employee may have sold to some collector

in the final analysis.... if I was a serous collector of ALL Cox crap...I would consider this a legitimate bit of Cox history

Sorry Bernie but I suspect the real story of totals will never be known...this was NOT a production item in any way and the notion that only 5 were made is believable in my mind


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Re: Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

Post  Cox International on Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:14 pm

Thanks Fred.

As the person that saw these at Dale Kirn's place is a long-time friend of the seller, there could be the possibility of collusion but it sounded quite convincing.

I have also emailed Larry Renger (former Cox engineer).

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

Post  fredvon4 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:46 pm

I have another suspicion some should be cogent of:

In the next two or three years, IF several of these very easy to replicate items become available-- it will most likely be a fake because the cost of replicating is minimal and many times the currently going "buy it now" price of a new .010
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Re: Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

Post  Cribbs74 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:38 pm

It's very possible and plausable that the story is true. It's very hard to aquire evidence or something to quantify an event that was conspired inside a business 40+ yrs ago. To me it has the value of a run 'o the mill .010

To each his own fellas. I'd rather buy a car or motorcycle at that price.
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Re: Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

Post  Cox International on Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:08 am

Someone contacted us to let us know that they had 3 of them, received from a gent who, in turn, had received them from Dale Kirn. Apparently were made with the first run of .010 engines (1958?) in a small quantity and some dealers got one.

We'll get to the bottom of this some day ...

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

Post  fredvon4 on Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:56 am

I love your optimism Bernie!

Some how I doubt the file drawers of the LM Cox company were preserved for posterity...pity because I suspect a lot of trade secrets could be verified. Not just anecdotal memories as we know them from the few alive who actually worked at the company

I would suspect, as an example...there were many (not a few) experimental designs that may have made it to proof of concept stage with a real working (or not working) engine...I can imagine after the effort, a business decision to "not produce" new concept for marketing reasons or cost to mass produce does not have the required economy of scale profit potential

I have no doubt the each major player back then (Fox/LMC/K&B/VECO/ST/ et all....) went through this design and test iteration a LOT of times and many ideas never went to market...and some where are the castings and test articles...not necessarily a complete engine...perhaps just a different piston

So I think since these are so hard to find and document...the odd internal to the company simple memorabilia will be impossible to totally vet as authentic not ever determine some total hand made were ever created...

Hell I bet there are more than a few of the tie tack .010s were gifted, not by the Cox company, but by bigger hobby shops to their outstanding employees
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Re: Does anyone know anything about this allegedly rare Cox .010 engine?

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