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"COX Budapest" .049 engine



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Post  Deerej18 Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:59 pm

Hi there... I have a .049 cox QZ Bee. Never ran it. Because im scared that im not mixing correctly. So, first let me tell you my understanding...
-NEVER use synthetic oil
-Blend Castor oil with NITRO

So I have Byrons racing fuel gen 2 (For 1/8 nitro buggys). It is %25 nitro. How much Castor oil should I use in a 1/4 gallon of this fuel?
Also, when we state "Castor Oil" do we mean the vegatable oil? - Sorry that might be a dumb question!

One more thing... I plan on putting this engine on a plane for flight at my club. My club is strict about engine noise level, does the .049 cox QZ Bee muffler really help?
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Post  Oldenginerod Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:30 am

Deerej18 wrote:Hi there... I have a .049 cox QZ Bee. Never ran it. Because im scared that im not mixing correctly. So, first let me tell you my understanding...
-NEVER use synthetic oil
-Blend Castor oil with NITRO

So I have Byrons racing fuel gen 2 (For 1/8 nitro buggys). It is %25 nitro. How much Castor oil should I use in a 1/4 gallon of this fuel?
Also, when we state "Castor Oil" do we mean the vegatable oil? - Sorry that might be a dumb question!

One more thing... I plan on putting this engine on a plane for flight at my club. My club is strict about engine noise level, does the .049 cox QZ Bee muffler really help?
Wecome Deerej18.
First, no-one said "never" use synthetic oil in a Cox.  Never use straight synthetic.  At least half the oil should be Castor oil, and a Cox likes a total of around 25% oil.

Castor oil will blend with methanol whether it has nitro or not.  Does the Byrons say how much oil it has?  Being buggy fuel, it most likely will be low and mainly synthetic, if not all.  Check out this fuel mix calculator.  http://www.nitrorc.com/default2.asp?Introduction=http://www.nitrorc.com/fuelws/ It makes it really easy blending percentages.

Castor oil comes from the Castor bean, so yes, it is vegetable oil.  Not just any vegitable oil!

The QZ muffler make quite a bit of difference to noise levels, but can restrict power output somewhat.  The "real" QZ uses a Tee Dee high compression head to compensate.

Good luck.
Rod.
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Post  Deerej18 Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:37 am

HI i looked on the website and I see "Current Oil Percent" I have no idea what my oil is... but I fount this bit of info on the web;


Several years ago, we set out to develop a full line of competitive and sport fuels specifically for car applications. As a direct result of arriving at superior blends that utilize the Byron Proprietary Lubricants and the higher quality nitromethane and methanol available, Byron RACE has become the leading fuel in many countries where modeling on land is more practical than in the air. With the introduction of our Gen2 RACE fuels in 2008, Byron Fuels continues to lead the competition in On-Road and Off-Road.
Byron RACE Gen2 fuels are firmly entrenched in winner's circles everywhere -- if all car fuels were created equal, you wouldn't find this happening.
RACE 1600 Gen2 and RACE 2000 Gen2 are blended with 12% total lubrication while RACE 2500 Gen2 and RACE 3000 Gen2 are blended with an 11% total oil content. RACE 1600 Gen2 (16% nitro) and RACE 2500 Gen2 (25% nitro) are specifically designed for international competitions which limit the nitro percentages of 1/10 and 1/8 scale cars.


Also, can I stick with %25 percent nitro? If so do I need to increase my "oil" to 50%?
One more thing... what does it mean by "oil"? in our terms do we mean castor?
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Post  fredvon4 Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:03 pm

OIl or lube is possible to be many different brands and various blends

Castor OIL is one non synthetic that is generally needed in some quantity for most Cox and Many plain bearing 2 stroke engines

WWW.sigmfg.com has a selection of Pure Castor and KLOTZ full synth under "field equipment"---" Fuel Oil and lubricants"

Pharmacy Castor oil is OK to use but the price per Oz will make you wish you had bought a Quart from Sig or somewhere

Lets assume some simple math (above was a calculator to play with) but for now

you have 1 gallon ----128 Oz ------of a fuel blend that is 25% nitro and some possible range of Oil from 11% to 18% (typical for high RPM ball bearing racing engines)

25% of 128 is 32 Oz of Nitromethane

remainder is Methanol and oil ( we will assume mostly synthetic)

Lets assume the OIl is 18% of the 128 or 23.04 Oz

32+ 23.04 is 55.04 Oz so the rest, 72.96 Oz is Methanol

If we just ADD oil to try to make the total OIL near 22~28% (mostly Castor) we end up with more than the 128 Oz....and thus the amount of Nitro is diluted and the percent N goes down

so assuming we have 23 Oz of synth (18% oil) we need 25% total oil (32 Oz) we are adding 9 Oz of castor BUT this ends up being backward to our desire of mostly Castor

Cox .049 prefers total oil to be 20% to 29% and Mostly 50% or greater Castor. What we did adding only 9oz is make our blend now be 137 total Oz, slightly less Nitro %, and still have more synth than Castor

By now you are frustrated and need to know: Why the hell is Castor so important???!!!

And I want you to go read this link:

The first post by Randy Smith...READ ALL of it

http://stunthanger.com/smf/engine-set-up-tips/fuel-glo-plug-and-running-tips/

But don't get discouraged...Cox, Testors, or WenMac engines start, needle and run better with 25%~35% Nitro but they will start and run very well with as little as 5% Nitro

BTW a quart of Sig 25% N is a lot for a .049 and not that expensive to play with

I think by now you have the concept and ideas what you need to do to play with these amazing little finger slicing screamers....

YOUR next questions will be about Propellers....
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Post  Deerej18 Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:04 pm

So could I just buy some sig 5% nitro- 25% castor?
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Post  halfpilot Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:15 pm

If you want to be lazy then this is the only reply you need to read.

I have used Byron Race Gen2 2500 with added castor as a fuel for my Cox engines. This is my recipe and the resulting ratios.

  • Byron Race Gen2 2500 Ingredients: 5.5% Castor Oil, 5.5% Synthetic Lubricant, 25% Nitro, Remainder Methanol
  • Add 11.2ml Castor Oil to Every 100ml of Base Fuel (I'll leave it to you to calculate the ratio in gallons)
  • Result: 15% Castor Oil, 5% Synthetic Lubricant, 22.5% Nitro, Remainder Methanol

This mix worked perfectly. Only downside is I have so much Race Gen 2500 that I still haven't used it all Very Happy

Sources of data for the recipe:


Simon
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Post  Deerej18 Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:44 pm

Alright time for the most STUPID question of the year...

I have actually never heard of "Castor oil" until this hobby has entered my life. So the only castor oil I have seen is the stuff for skin. Is this the right castor oil? Or do I need to go to the automotive store for actual "Castor oil"?
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Post  roddie Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:37 pm

Deerej18 wrote:Alright time for the most STUPID question of the year...

I have actually never heard of "Castor oil" until this hobby has entered my life. So the only castor oil I have seen is the stuff for skin. Is this the right castor oil? Or do I need to go to the automotive store for actual "Castor oil"?

Fredvon4 mentioned buying a quart of Sig "Champion 25". This is already blended perfectly for your engine. Sig also sells Castor oil separately.. which you could experiment blending with your buggy-fuel later on. It is MUCH cheaper than buying Castor oil at the pharmacy.. as well as being refined specifically for use as an engine lubricant.

Castor oil actually "thickens" in the heat of combustion.. unlike synthetic oils. It also leaves a protective "film-residue" on the internal engine parts.. most importantly; the ball-socket joint inside the piston where the connecting rod is attached. This joint WILL fail in a short time if you run fuel without (or without enough..) Castor oil.
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Post  pkrankow Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:50 pm

The pharmacy sells castor oil as a laxative.  This has some other impurities in it that will cause it to gum more at temperature, while Klotz castor oil has these removed.  

Nitromethane is nice.  It packs some oxygen along in the molecule.  This reduces needle sensitivity by making the engine require more fuel for the air.  This in turn makes more power.  

Nitromethane is not required, even for .049 engines.  Performance and ease of operation is improved with nitromethane.

Phil
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