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Post  GallopingGhostler on Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:39 am

My latest acquisition, now awaiting arrival, $27 shipping included.

K&B Torpedo .35 Kb_tor10

K&B Torpedo .35 Kb_tor11

This will be mount it inboard on a profile CL to put the exhaust down. Laughing
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Post  fredvon4 on Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:51 am

George... a bit back I found some of the period correct engines for a few nostalgia combat plane I was/am/plan to build

Just this morning I decided to run one of them as my 6 year old grandson is visiting...I pulled out one or my two Torp 35...one looks exactly like yours, and one is sort of newish with a clean green head

I am right now fussing with balancing a prop and trying to figure what blend of fuel to use ( I have a broad range already blended)

Pretty sure I will use the fuel for my early Fox 35 on the S-1 RM. A "working well for me" blend of 15%N, 25% oil (20/5 castor/synth)

Tomorrow Jackson and I will probably fire up my one remaining McCoy Red head .35 and the Next Day my original 1971 Enya 5224 .35

Back to the Torp exhaust... I am thinking of building one of the combat planes with upright engine for one of mine

BTW $27 was a good find and from the outside looks like a good engine
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:25 am

Thanks. Regarding fuel, I'm going to use my usual CL mix, 25% oil. What is a good fuel and heat resistant paint for the head, which reasonably matches original head color?
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Post  fredvon4 on Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:08 am

George

Back when I bought them and one was bare headed I did a search for the paint and color as you are... Stuka stunt search is a pain but lost of threads about it and Stunt Hanger a bit better search but the paint questions are buried and much reading(skimming) of every post in a thread

I think I stopped trying becaus there was a LOT of variances and NO TRUE factory color... many claiming the company just used whatever was war surplus year to year and three brand new on the shelf in 1957 could all have a different shade of green

most any of the current high temp auto engine paints will work...Read up on EastWood or KBS on the prep and characteristics of the various offerings...I think a John Deere Green is probably close enough
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:26 am

I looked at various photos. Attempted a search on Stunt Hanger and Stuka Stunt, came up with nothing. Only green sold in the Clovis NM area is

K&B Torpedo .35 Duplic10

Duplicolor Grabber Green Lime. I suppose I could go with that, or break traditional, leave in bare or paint red like the McCoys. But I'd like to get close to original. Ebay had this one for an example:

K&B Torpedo .35 Kb_45_10

Looks to be slightly lighter than John Deere Green.
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Post  fredvon4 on Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:54 am

I would be tempted to get the head totally de-greased and well sanded then de-greased again

then find the one or more guys in a 50 mile radius that collect or restore old farm tractors

One of them will have a can or cans of various greens and may let you dip a brush to coat the 1.5 sq in of head
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:19 am

Only reason why I ask is that colors rendered on a computer monitor is not always exacting. Would like to get it in the ballpark, but at this point may be a mute one.
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Post  fredvon4 on Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:21 am

Mine factory green one is also a shade darker than JD

This looks close to my eye but as you say computer screen colors can be way off

http://www.eastwood.com/ew-ceramic-engine-paint-qt-john-deere.html

Not going to spend $40+ to end up with enough for 300 engines even of the correct green
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Post  fredvon4 on Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:26 am

BTW powder coating with the cheap Harbor freight rig ( I gave mine to my son) will work but I do not know long term durability on a HOT head...for a shelf queen would be perfect

Eastwood's selection of green powders is pretty good

http://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-powder-coating/powders.html?color=1030
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:42 am

Going to the expense of powder coating is a bit of a stretch. I bought the engine because it looked like a good bargain, and I know it would be period correct on the right model. I'm thinking of the late 1950's Berkeley Interceptor kit that I have. Proportion wise it is very similar to the Ringmaster S-1, except perhaps for a slightly thicker air foil.

Seeing various K&B Torpedoes in photos both in on-line auctions and CL plane photos, I've seen the forest green heads to a lighter aqua green head. I don't know may be it is not so critical after all.

http://duplicolor.com/product/engine-enamel-with-ceramic

Color you're referring to is probably the Hunter Green in their chart. Color in the E-Bay borrowed photo head part seems to be closer to Ford Green, but then others seem closer to what you describe.

Ford Green:
K&B Torpedo .35 DE1617

E-Bay Torpedo .45 head:
K&B Torpedo .35 Kb_45_10

Hunter Green:
K&B Torpedo .35 DE1644

Here's are .35 Green Heads Chellie Ramos is running:



They seem to be closer to the Hunter Green. I commented on her video and asked what color and paint she used.
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Post  Oldenginerod on Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:08 pm

The Hunter Green looks about right to me. I have a NIP head somewhere so could dig that out & see what it compares to on a chart. When I restored my .15 Green Head I went to my local auto parts store, looked through the chart and got a small sample pot of enamel mixed up. This came up looking nice but the engine is for display only and would probably burn off if run. The correct green seems to have a little more white rather than yellow as its base. The John Deere green has a little too much yellow.
The Ford Engine green was perfect for my Corolla engine restoration, but nowhere near the K&B colour.
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Post  getback on Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:16 pm

Nice looking engine George , on my screen and eyes I have looks like this to match the head you posted from ebay .  https://www.google.com/search?q=k%26b+torpedo+35+greenhead&biw=1280&bih=585&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi3t7vZhaTOAhXJLSYKHb8WCgMQ_AUICCgD#tbm=isch&q=merine+green&imgrc=H1ld77WYMSfHCM%3A  But after you run it a few times surly turn colors any way ?? K&B Torpedo .35 Green_10K&B Torpedo .35 Breit_10 July-27
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:38 pm

I posted a comment question on Chellie Ramos' Torpedo 35 overhaul video. She said she uses VHT engine paint in Kermit Green. It appears to be lighter than Duplicolor Racing (Hunter) Green. Locally VHT paint is only sold in very limited colors and quantities (I live in a small city), that color is not available. I mentioned my dilemma and see what she says about Rustoleum and Duplicolor paints.

I'm thinking that Duplicolor Grabber Green (Lime) may be a closer match.

K&B Torpedo .35 DE1641

http://www.vhtpaint.com/high-heat/vht-engine-enamel

Colors are shown on the above web page.
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Post  fredvon4 on Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:06 pm

George a few other thoughts

I know you already did this ( painted a Cyl head) with the Red McCoy head (I think)

I used to mess with a lot of Motor cycle and auto engines tending to like to pretty them up...paint polish etc...

I learned that on the older stuff, after lots of years of use, the metal actually had contaminates and oil infused INTO the metal and some paints or powder coating failed...

a local commercial powder coat guy told me he OUT Gasses many parts before, and after, solvent de-greasing

Basically getting the item very hot for an extended time in an fan forced convection oven ( I think for this small part a hair dryer/heat gun will work)

The final de-grease was a harsh solvent and then a flood with OSPHO and water, then forced hot air dry,..then immediate coating---- be it paint or powder

I followed this advice on many MC parts and can attest that time spent on the prep is worth the effort

I know, I know---- we are only talking a 2 inch diameter steel cylinder head

I have a few other suggestions:

Holding the part...kill a dead glow plug...de-grease it also, and force a proper sized music wire in to the element area to help hold the part and keep the landing (washer) surface and threads from paint fouling

get 6 sacrificial screws and small washers, de-greased and use them to keep screw head lading area and through hole clear of paint

When shooting the paint remember Duplicolor / VHT rusteoleum etc all recommend wait time ( 5 to 15 min) for subsequent coats....or a long 24 hr to 48 hr wait.... BUT the "long wait" usually recommends sanding... too hard to do on a finned Cylinder head--- so--- IMO---- the paint needs to be light coats until proper color and thickness in the first application

very very tedious....but the one head I did with VHT... I used a small Q tip to lightly coat the outside of the sacrificial bolt washers with light oil...just barley the washer edge... Held the part with the glow plug music wire and painted.... waited a few for the paint to set... carefully removed all 6 screws n washers then into a low heat oven to cure

The glow plug/washer holder....once removed has a bare metal landing area for the new plug copper washer
The six screws and washers once removed leave a bare metal landing torque area

...Cons...time consuming
Pluses...proper electrical contact area
Torqued head screws will not have to distort PAINT and perhaps create a corrosion area
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:48 am

Fred, I hear you on the cleanliness, that I am well familiar with. I've painted 7 or 8 cars and a motorcycle plus dent repairs in my lifetime, overhauled a couple motors, etc. Probably built 30 or 40 balsa planes in my life. Regarding sweating metal, the crockpot method followed with a highly volatile solvent soak does wonders. Got several paint guns, a 25 gallon tank air compressor. Regarding shooting the heads with rattle cans, I usually do one thick short of running coat, wait a few secs if need to touch again. That I've found works best.
Besides, the only difference between an engine's poor paint job and a good one is a couple seasons. lol!
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Post  Oldenginerod on Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:23 am

Last head I painted was a McCoy .35. This is a display engine so I only used regular gloss enamel from the hardware store, in Cherry Red. I forced a dowel into the plug hole from underneath and, after thorough cleaning and a light spray with etch primer, dipped it into the can of red without completely immersing it so as to prevent paint getting on the underside of the head. I then swung the head underarm to flick off the excess paint onto the ground and then sat it upright to dry. It left a beautiful deep gloss finish. If I were to run the engine it would likely burn off, but for display it couldn not have come up better. Now I just need to learn to re-anodize heads. I have several to do but it's not so simple as paint.

Rod.
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:39 am

Rod, I read somewhere that the McCoy (die cast?) heads don't anodize well, don't remember the specifics, but think it was because of the casting finish (surface porosity?). I think someone like Bernie with Cox International or else familiar with anodizing would be able to advise. (All anodized Cox parts are extruded or machined.) Powder coating with a high temp one might be a better way.

By burnt you mean?
K&B Torpedo .35 Mccoy312

I got this engine as a gift. I gather someone must have repainted this used engine with a standard enamel.
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Post  RknRusty on Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:50 am

I have a brand new one of those 25s and 35s as well as a new crankcase and I've been curious about them. I'm glad this thread came up. I should start thinking about a period plane for them. Maybe in 5 years I'll have one flying Lol. Actually one is for an old dilapidated Gieske Nobler, Ron you've seen it. It hasn't moved. I feel kind of guilty about that, but the rebuild was way over my head when I got it. Maybe not so much now.
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Post  Oldenginerod on Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:06 am

lol!
George, I have a McCoy 29 looks just like that.  Exactly the same head treatment.  Yeah, that standard enamel doesn't handle the heat.
I wasn't thinking of anodizing a cast head.  I have a Taipan diesel and a Frog Vibramatic which both have a red machined cylinder "muff" which came factory anodized.  You do need a very fine machined finish for it to work well.
GallopingGhostler wrote:Rod, I read somewhere that the McCoy (die cast?) heads don't anodize well, don't remember the specifics, but think it was because of the casting finish (surface porosity?). I think someone like Bernie with Cox International or else familiar with anodizing would be able to advise. (All anodized Cox parts are extruded or machined.) Powder coating with a high temp one might be a better way.

By burnt you mean?
K&B Torpedo .35 Mccoy312

I got this engine as a gift. I gather someone must have repainted this used engine with a standard enamel.
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:35 am

Rod, I've heard a lot of good about those Taipans, they are well built and good looking too, especially with the red anodized heads. Here across the pond we don't see them as often as AFAIK they were only available through certain distributors and stores in US some time back. For me it would have been mail order.

There's a lot of hype about the Fox's and rightly so. The McCoy Red Heads didn't have as good of metallurgy as others, (IMO best was Enya), but they seem to be very smooth running and easy to adjust. Dick McCoy who designed it was a genius. They tick over with just a prime and couple flips of the prop, aren't too fussy with over/under prime. Now, that we know the formula for success, adequate oil (25%+) with a good bit Castor, mild nitro content and running rich provide decent life.

Soon, I'll bench run that K&B .35 Torpedo, I'm really excited about it. I need to get building. This is the period correct plane I'm thinking about putting it in.

(Please note, this MAN ad from the early 1960s is not politically correct. Having a mother from Japan (my father is Pennsylvanian), I come from a generation that was more tolerant toward ignorant and unintended statements, but we live in a different world today, as Clint Eastwood recently put it in a magazine interview, a "p*ssy generation". silent )
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