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K&B Torpedo .35
Page 1 of 1
K&B Torpedo .35
My latest acquisition, now awaiting arrival, $27 shipping included.
This will be mount it inboard on a profile CL to put the exhaust down.
This will be mount it inboard on a profile CL to put the exhaust down.
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
George... a bit back I found some of the period correct engines for a few nostalgia combat plane I was/am/plan to build
Just this morning I decided to run one of them as my 6 year old grandson is visiting...I pulled out one or my two Torp 35...one looks exactly like yours, and one is sort of newish with a clean green head
I am right now fussing with balancing a prop and trying to figure what blend of fuel to use ( I have a broad range already blended)
Pretty sure I will use the fuel for my early Fox 35 on the S-1 RM. A "working well for me" blend of 15%N, 25% oil (20/5 castor/synth)
Tomorrow Jackson and I will probably fire up my one remaining McCoy Red head .35 and the Next Day my original 1971 Enya 5224 .35
Back to the Torp exhaust... I am thinking of building one of the combat planes with upright engine for one of mine
BTW $27 was a good find and from the outside looks like a good engine
Just this morning I decided to run one of them as my 6 year old grandson is visiting...I pulled out one or my two Torp 35...one looks exactly like yours, and one is sort of newish with a clean green head
I am right now fussing with balancing a prop and trying to figure what blend of fuel to use ( I have a broad range already blended)
Pretty sure I will use the fuel for my early Fox 35 on the S-1 RM. A "working well for me" blend of 15%N, 25% oil (20/5 castor/synth)
Tomorrow Jackson and I will probably fire up my one remaining McCoy Red head .35 and the Next Day my original 1971 Enya 5224 .35
Back to the Torp exhaust... I am thinking of building one of the combat planes with upright engine for one of mine
BTW $27 was a good find and from the outside looks like a good engine
fredvon4- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
Thanks. Regarding fuel, I'm going to use my usual CL mix, 25% oil. What is a good fuel and heat resistant paint for the head, which reasonably matches original head color?
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
George
Back when I bought them and one was bare headed I did a search for the paint and color as you are... Stuka stunt search is a pain but lost of threads about it and Stunt Hanger a bit better search but the paint questions are buried and much reading(skimming) of every post in a thread
I think I stopped trying becaus there was a LOT of variances and NO TRUE factory color... many claiming the company just used whatever was war surplus year to year and three brand new on the shelf in 1957 could all have a different shade of green
most any of the current high temp auto engine paints will work...Read up on EastWood or KBS on the prep and characteristics of the various offerings...I think a John Deere Green is probably close enough
Back when I bought them and one was bare headed I did a search for the paint and color as you are... Stuka stunt search is a pain but lost of threads about it and Stunt Hanger a bit better search but the paint questions are buried and much reading(skimming) of every post in a thread
I think I stopped trying becaus there was a LOT of variances and NO TRUE factory color... many claiming the company just used whatever was war surplus year to year and three brand new on the shelf in 1957 could all have a different shade of green
most any of the current high temp auto engine paints will work...Read up on EastWood or KBS on the prep and characteristics of the various offerings...I think a John Deere Green is probably close enough
fredvon4- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
I looked at various photos. Attempted a search on Stunt Hanger and Stuka Stunt, came up with nothing. Only green sold in the Clovis NM area is
Duplicolor Grabber Green Lime. I suppose I could go with that, or break traditional, leave in bare or paint red like the McCoys. But I'd like to get close to original. Ebay had this one for an example:
Looks to be slightly lighter than John Deere Green.
Duplicolor Grabber Green Lime. I suppose I could go with that, or break traditional, leave in bare or paint red like the McCoys. But I'd like to get close to original. Ebay had this one for an example:
Looks to be slightly lighter than John Deere Green.
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
I would be tempted to get the head totally de-greased and well sanded then de-greased again
then find the one or more guys in a 50 mile radius that collect or restore old farm tractors
One of them will have a can or cans of various greens and may let you dip a brush to coat the 1.5 sq in of head
then find the one or more guys in a 50 mile radius that collect or restore old farm tractors
One of them will have a can or cans of various greens and may let you dip a brush to coat the 1.5 sq in of head
fredvon4- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
Only reason why I ask is that colors rendered on a computer monitor is not always exacting. Would like to get it in the ballpark, but at this point may be a mute one.
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
Mine factory green one is also a shade darker than JD
This looks close to my eye but as you say computer screen colors can be way off
http://www.eastwood.com/ew-ceramic-engine-paint-qt-john-deere.html
Not going to spend $40+ to end up with enough for 300 engines even of the correct green
This looks close to my eye but as you say computer screen colors can be way off
http://www.eastwood.com/ew-ceramic-engine-paint-qt-john-deere.html
Not going to spend $40+ to end up with enough for 300 engines even of the correct green
fredvon4- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
BTW powder coating with the cheap Harbor freight rig ( I gave mine to my son) will work but I do not know long term durability on a HOT head...for a shelf queen would be perfect
Eastwood's selection of green powders is pretty good
http://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-powder-coating/powders.html?color=1030
Eastwood's selection of green powders is pretty good
http://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-powder-coating/powders.html?color=1030
fredvon4- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
Going to the expense of powder coating is a bit of a stretch. I bought the engine because it looked like a good bargain, and I know it would be period correct on the right model. I'm thinking of the late 1950's Berkeley Interceptor kit that I have. Proportion wise it is very similar to the Ringmaster S-1, except perhaps for a slightly thicker air foil.
Seeing various K&B Torpedoes in photos both in on-line auctions and CL plane photos, I've seen the forest green heads to a lighter aqua green head. I don't know may be it is not so critical after all.
http://duplicolor.com/product/engine-enamel-with-ceramic
Color you're referring to is probably the Hunter Green in their chart. Color in the E-Bay borrowed photo head part seems to be closer to Ford Green, but then others seem closer to what you describe.
Ford Green:
E-Bay Torpedo .45 head:
Hunter Green:
Here's are .35 Green Heads Chellie Ramos is running:
They seem to be closer to the Hunter Green. I commented on her video and asked what color and paint she used.
Seeing various K&B Torpedoes in photos both in on-line auctions and CL plane photos, I've seen the forest green heads to a lighter aqua green head. I don't know may be it is not so critical after all.
http://duplicolor.com/product/engine-enamel-with-ceramic
Color you're referring to is probably the Hunter Green in their chart. Color in the E-Bay borrowed photo head part seems to be closer to Ford Green, but then others seem closer to what you describe.
Ford Green:
E-Bay Torpedo .45 head:
Hunter Green:
Here's are .35 Green Heads Chellie Ramos is running:
They seem to be closer to the Hunter Green. I commented on her video and asked what color and paint she used.
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
The Hunter Green looks about right to me. I have a NIP head somewhere so could dig that out & see what it compares to on a chart. When I restored my .15 Green Head I went to my local auto parts store, looked through the chart and got a small sample pot of enamel mixed up. This came up looking nice but the engine is for display only and would probably burn off if run. The correct green seems to have a little more white rather than yellow as its base. The John Deere green has a little too much yellow.
The Ford Engine green was perfect for my Corolla engine restoration, but nowhere near the K&B colour.
The Ford Engine green was perfect for my Corolla engine restoration, but nowhere near the K&B colour.
Oldenginerod- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
Nice looking engine George , on my screen and eyes I have looks like this to match the head you posted from ebay . https://www.google.com/search?q=k%26b+torpedo+35+greenhead&biw=1280&bih=585&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi3t7vZhaTOAhXJLSYKHb8WCgMQ_AUICCgD#tbm=isch&q=merine+green&imgrc=H1ld77WYMSfHCM%3A But after you run it a few times surly turn colors any way ??
getback- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
I posted a comment question on Chellie Ramos' Torpedo 35 overhaul video. She said she uses VHT engine paint in Kermit Green. It appears to be lighter than Duplicolor Racing (Hunter) Green. Locally VHT paint is only sold in very limited colors and quantities (I live in a small city), that color is not available. I mentioned my dilemma and see what she says about Rustoleum and Duplicolor paints.
I'm thinking that Duplicolor Grabber Green (Lime) may be a closer match.
http://www.vhtpaint.com/high-heat/vht-engine-enamel
Colors are shown on the above web page.
I'm thinking that Duplicolor Grabber Green (Lime) may be a closer match.
http://www.vhtpaint.com/high-heat/vht-engine-enamel
Colors are shown on the above web page.
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
George a few other thoughts
I know you already did this ( painted a Cyl head) with the Red McCoy head (I think)
I used to mess with a lot of Motor cycle and auto engines tending to like to pretty them up...paint polish etc...
I learned that on the older stuff, after lots of years of use, the metal actually had contaminates and oil infused INTO the metal and some paints or powder coating failed...
a local commercial powder coat guy told me he OUT Gasses many parts before, and after, solvent de-greasing
Basically getting the item very hot for an extended time in an fan forced convection oven ( I think for this small part a hair dryer/heat gun will work)
The final de-grease was a harsh solvent and then a flood with OSPHO and water, then forced hot air dry,..then immediate coating---- be it paint or powder
I followed this advice on many MC parts and can attest that time spent on the prep is worth the effort
I know, I know---- we are only talking a 2 inch diameter steel cylinder head
I have a few other suggestions:
Holding the part...kill a dead glow plug...de-grease it also, and force a proper sized music wire in to the element area to help hold the part and keep the landing (washer) surface and threads from paint fouling
get 6 sacrificial screws and small washers, de-greased and use them to keep screw head lading area and through hole clear of paint
When shooting the paint remember Duplicolor / VHT rusteoleum etc all recommend wait time ( 5 to 15 min) for subsequent coats....or a long 24 hr to 48 hr wait.... BUT the "long wait" usually recommends sanding... too hard to do on a finned Cylinder head--- so--- IMO---- the paint needs to be light coats until proper color and thickness in the first application
very very tedious....but the one head I did with VHT... I used a small Q tip to lightly coat the outside of the sacrificial bolt washers with light oil...just barley the washer edge... Held the part with the glow plug music wire and painted.... waited a few for the paint to set... carefully removed all 6 screws n washers then into a low heat oven to cure
The glow plug/washer holder....once removed has a bare metal landing area for the new plug copper washer
The six screws and washers once removed leave a bare metal landing torque area
...Cons...time consuming
Pluses...proper electrical contact area
Torqued head screws will not have to distort PAINT and perhaps create a corrosion area
I know you already did this ( painted a Cyl head) with the Red McCoy head (I think)
I used to mess with a lot of Motor cycle and auto engines tending to like to pretty them up...paint polish etc...
I learned that on the older stuff, after lots of years of use, the metal actually had contaminates and oil infused INTO the metal and some paints or powder coating failed...
a local commercial powder coat guy told me he OUT Gasses many parts before, and after, solvent de-greasing
Basically getting the item very hot for an extended time in an fan forced convection oven ( I think for this small part a hair dryer/heat gun will work)
The final de-grease was a harsh solvent and then a flood with OSPHO and water, then forced hot air dry,..then immediate coating---- be it paint or powder
I followed this advice on many MC parts and can attest that time spent on the prep is worth the effort
I know, I know---- we are only talking a 2 inch diameter steel cylinder head
I have a few other suggestions:
Holding the part...kill a dead glow plug...de-grease it also, and force a proper sized music wire in to the element area to help hold the part and keep the landing (washer) surface and threads from paint fouling
get 6 sacrificial screws and small washers, de-greased and use them to keep screw head lading area and through hole clear of paint
When shooting the paint remember Duplicolor / VHT rusteoleum etc all recommend wait time ( 5 to 15 min) for subsequent coats....or a long 24 hr to 48 hr wait.... BUT the "long wait" usually recommends sanding... too hard to do on a finned Cylinder head--- so--- IMO---- the paint needs to be light coats until proper color and thickness in the first application
very very tedious....but the one head I did with VHT... I used a small Q tip to lightly coat the outside of the sacrificial bolt washers with light oil...just barley the washer edge... Held the part with the glow plug music wire and painted.... waited a few for the paint to set... carefully removed all 6 screws n washers then into a low heat oven to cure
The glow plug/washer holder....once removed has a bare metal landing area for the new plug copper washer
The six screws and washers once removed leave a bare metal landing torque area
...Cons...time consuming
Pluses...proper electrical contact area
Torqued head screws will not have to distort PAINT and perhaps create a corrosion area
fredvon4- Top Poster
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Posts : 4012
Join date : 2011-08-26
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
Fred, I hear you on the cleanliness, that I am well familiar with. I've painted 7 or 8 cars and a motorcycle plus dent repairs in my lifetime, overhauled a couple motors, etc. Probably built 30 or 40 balsa planes in my life. Regarding sweating metal, the crockpot method followed with a highly volatile solvent soak does wonders. Got several paint guns, a 25 gallon tank air compressor. Regarding shooting the heads with rattle cans, I usually do one thick short of running coat, wait a few secs if need to touch again. That I've found works best.
Besides, the only difference between an engine's poor paint job and a good one is a couple seasons.
Besides, the only difference between an engine's poor paint job and a good one is a couple seasons.
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
Last head I painted was a McCoy .35. This is a display engine so I only used regular gloss enamel from the hardware store, in Cherry Red. I forced a dowel into the plug hole from underneath and, after thorough cleaning and a light spray with etch primer, dipped it into the can of red without completely immersing it so as to prevent paint getting on the underside of the head. I then swung the head underarm to flick off the excess paint onto the ground and then sat it upright to dry. It left a beautiful deep gloss finish. If I were to run the engine it would likely burn off, but for display it couldn not have come up better. Now I just need to learn to re-anodize heads. I have several to do but it's not so simple as paint.
Rod.
Rod.
Oldenginerod- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
Rod, I read somewhere that the McCoy (die cast?) heads don't anodize well, don't remember the specifics, but think it was because of the casting finish (surface porosity?). I think someone like Bernie with Cox International or else familiar with anodizing would be able to advise. (All anodized Cox parts are extruded or machined.) Powder coating with a high temp one might be a better way.
By burnt you mean?
I got this engine as a gift. I gather someone must have repainted this used engine with a standard enamel.
By burnt you mean?
I got this engine as a gift. I gather someone must have repainted this used engine with a standard enamel.
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
I have a brand new one of those 25s and 35s as well as a new crankcase and I've been curious about them. I'm glad this thread came up. I should start thinking about a period plane for them. Maybe in 5 years I'll have one flying Lol. Actually one is for an old dilapidated Gieske Nobler, Ron you've seen it. It hasn't moved. I feel kind of guilty about that, but the rebuild was way over my head when I got it. Maybe not so much now.
Rusty
Rusty
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My Hot Rock & Blues Playlist
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while you're doing it!
My Hot Rock & Blues Playlist
RknRusty- Rest In Peace
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
George, I have a McCoy 29 looks just like that. Exactly the same head treatment. Yeah, that standard enamel doesn't handle the heat.
I wasn't thinking of anodizing a cast head. I have a Taipan diesel and a Frog Vibramatic which both have a red machined cylinder "muff" which came factory anodized. You do need a very fine machined finish for it to work well.
GallopingGhostler wrote:Rod, I read somewhere that the McCoy (die cast?) heads don't anodize well, don't remember the specifics, but think it was because of the casting finish (surface porosity?). I think someone like Bernie with Cox International or else familiar with anodizing would be able to advise. (All anodized Cox parts are extruded or machined.) Powder coating with a high temp one might be a better way.
By burnt you mean?
I got this engine as a gift. I gather someone must have repainted this used engine with a standard enamel.
Oldenginerod- Top Poster
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Re: K&B Torpedo .35
Rod, I've heard a lot of good about those Taipans, they are well built and good looking too, especially with the red anodized heads. Here across the pond we don't see them as often as AFAIK they were only available through certain distributors and stores in US some time back. For me it would have been mail order.
There's a lot of hype about the Fox's and rightly so. The McCoy Red Heads didn't have as good of metallurgy as others, (IMO best was Enya), but they seem to be very smooth running and easy to adjust. Dick McCoy who designed it was a genius. They tick over with just a prime and couple flips of the prop, aren't too fussy with over/under prime. Now, that we know the formula for success, adequate oil (25%+) with a good bit Castor, mild nitro content and running rich provide decent life.
Soon, I'll bench run that K&B .35 Torpedo, I'm really excited about it. I need to get building. This is the period correct plane I'm thinking about putting it in.
(Please note, this MAN ad from the early 1960s is not politically correct. Having a mother from Japan (my father is Pennsylvanian), I come from a generation that was more tolerant toward ignorant and unintended statements, but we live in a different world today, as Clint Eastwood recently put it in a magazine interview, a "p*ssy generation". )
There's a lot of hype about the Fox's and rightly so. The McCoy Red Heads didn't have as good of metallurgy as others, (IMO best was Enya), but they seem to be very smooth running and easy to adjust. Dick McCoy who designed it was a genius. They tick over with just a prime and couple flips of the prop, aren't too fussy with over/under prime. Now, that we know the formula for success, adequate oil (25%+) with a good bit Castor, mild nitro content and running rich provide decent life.
Soon, I'll bench run that K&B .35 Torpedo, I'm really excited about it. I need to get building. This is the period correct plane I'm thinking about putting it in.
(Please note, this MAN ad from the early 1960s is not politically correct. Having a mother from Japan (my father is Pennsylvanian), I come from a generation that was more tolerant toward ignorant and unintended statements, but we live in a different world today, as Clint Eastwood recently put it in a magazine interview, a "p*ssy generation". )
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