"Billy's Bee"

Kim Mon Jun 26, 2023 10:24 pm

From My Facebook Page:

"During the Epic Battle of the Bee-Tweens, Billy's engine was a bit lacking in enthusiasm, so he traded the castor slinger out for a more frisky version.

I asked Billy if I could take the cranky .049 home to see if I could improve it a bit. Billy is totally capable of tuning these little suckers, but he has about a zillion irons in the fire, and I really wanted to take a turn at the engine, so it was great to have him let me borrow it.

The engine has an original Babe Bee backplate with two filler ports, AND an 8cc tank that also has a filler and overflow port, so you can fuel whatever way your heart desires.

I swapped out the steel reed valve for a mylar type, replaced the tiny "o" ring gasket on the induction tube, added a new fuel pick-up line, and finally replaced the glowhead gasket with a shiny new one.

Off to the Run Bench!!
Fuel used was Sig Champion 25%, with a 5x3 Cox prop bolted to its snout.

During the first run, I had to stop and re-tighten the four tank screws, but after that, the little engine actually started quite easily with just manual flipping.

It immediately went up into the mid 14K's, and gained a bit more as things settled in. Not bad at all for a single port engine ( the "port" is a channel cut into the inside of the cylinder that delivers fuel to the combustion chamber as the piston moves downward).

So, a good night out in the shop, and the Babe Bee gets returned to Billy, to await powering yet another Lang Creation."

balogh Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:39 am

Great refurbishment, Kim..the mylar reed will not only match higher rpm- s than the heavier stainless steel, but will save the circular seal lip on the aluminum backplate with much less wear.
I see the Bee has a thin wall cylinder that came with taper bore no matter if 2 ported or 1 ported i.e. No.1 or 2 stamped on it.

I have most of my reedies with 2 ported (No.1) cylinders and as an additional boosting measure I added Kamtechnik turbo heads to most..it does wonders, you may want to propose it to the owner of the Bee in case he wants extra power.

GallopingGhostler Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:58 am

Interesting, a Babe Bee apparently cobbled together, the thin cylinder Bee had a tapered nose, this one is the later straight one with hexed prop thrust washer for a ratchet starter spring. Perhaps that helps to explain why it required a little more tweaking that you did, Kim.

Regardless, still a decent runner, RPM's aren't too shabby, about that expected with a new Babe Bee. You done him a good service. Thumbs Up

Kim Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:30 am

Thanks Guys!

I used to have a lot better handle on all the characteristics of various Bees and their parts, but have gradually lost track on which cylinders have what and so on.

It's still fun to get one back to being fairly good-natured, which is the key for most of our flying now. I stayed with the low compression head for this reason as it just seems to make the engine easier to start.

Opening it, I found that the tank uses one of those "snap-on" plastic reed retainers with a steel reed installed, which surely wouldn't be a good combination, though the retainer didn't seem to have been eaten up by the steel reed. Still, it's now bugging me that I didn't replace the retainer, and I may do that later today, with another test run to check it.

Anyway, a mylar replacement fell right in, and the old Bee started up pretty easily.

Fun stuff.

Kim Tue Jun 27, 2023 10:45 am

GallopingGhostler wrote:Interesting, a Babe Bee apparently cobbled together, the thin cylinder Bee had a tapered nose, this one is the later straight one with hexed prop thrust washer for a ratchet starter spring.

Yeah, strangely enough (or maybe not), engines like this really strike a chord with me, and take me back to the days of a bunch of rangy kids, trying to get some control liners going in Olmsted's ballpark.

We knew hardly anything about Babe Bees and their siblings, but that never discouraged our tweaking them, with outright field surgery often being performed on the spot. As budding mechanics, and often using ill-fitting or improvised tools, we swapped parts and pieces among ourselves, and were rightfully amazed when an engine would crank up with anything close to adequate power. It was somewhat like neanderthals working on pocket watches.

And, forget about fuel! We ran what we had, and it's pretty amazing any of our little engines survived...but they did.

I will always be grateful for those silly times.

GallopingGhostler Tue Jun 27, 2023 11:41 am

Kim regarding striking a chord, just with interest in our older age in getting things to run, buying bargain bastardized engines on the 'net, relying on friends to help us out with parts non-obtanium any more, we relive the glory of former years.

I remember overtightening those potmetal Zamack cast backs, causing the flat surface to dimple in by the tank screws. But, I guess Leroy Cox knew what he was doing. They survived my ham-fistedness.

Nowadays I imagine some keep the premium looking ones for display but run the cobbled ones for fun. Robert runs a once warped but now straight thin cylinder Pee Wee on his Ken Willard builds.

Also a case of déjà vu, the Musciano designed 25 inch profile Cessna 170 kit that arrived this weekend, already has a formed landing gear with rubber wheels already mounted. It has brass rivets for wheel bearings. In 1967, my 18 inch Top Flite half-A Zero C/L kit I built and put a Pee Wee in, has the exact same wheels and rivet bearings. The wheels are true molded black rubber, look more suitable for a vintage car. They were still better and preferable over the dyed black hardwood ones that seemed to come with nearly all half-A C/L and rubber powered aircraft.

roddie Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:01 pm

Hi Kim, I'm curious as to why Billy wouldn't have either swapped-out that vented backplate for a non-vented Golden Bee/Black Widow type.. or plug those vents to prevent losing fuel if inverted? Huh...

I also wonder if having 3 active tank-vents could somehow affect the pressure within the tank and/or compromise the fuel-flow when in the air?

I can certainly understand wanting an extra 3cc's of fuel.

GallopingGhostler Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:28 pm

roddie wrote:Hi Kim, I'm curious as to why Billy wouldn't have either swapped-out that vented backplate for a non-vented Golden Bee/Black Widow type.. or plug those vents to prevent losing fuel if inverted? I also wonder if having 3 active tank-vents could somehow affect the pressure within the tank and/or compromise the fuel-flow when in the air?

I don't see how the extra vent (bottom one, top one on stunt tank immersed in fuel) would affect running. Atmospheric pressure is maintained inside the tank. About the only downside is losing fuel flying C/L inverted or outside loop through the Babe Bee tank back vents. As a quick fix, I'd probably just plug those Babe Bee back vents with round toothpicks, trim flush. When needed again, poke a smaller diameter music wire to remove them. But that's me.

In R/C, stunt tank is still limited to no inverted or outside loop flights (fuel pickup on bottom of tank). Back in the 1990's, I remember flying my Q-Tee with Golden Bee engine at a vacant lot next to the National Guard Armory. (Now, it is a fenced storage area with a business next to it.) Hit rudder just right making it go inverted, engine quit after several seconds inverted. (The Q-Tee is probably one of the best fun half-A sport planes around. A Norvel .061 Big Mig turns it into a nice sport plane.)

HalfaDave Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:55 pm

Hi Kim, nicely done... Smile

Single ports, are under rated.
Here is a miss those 'Silly Times' story...

~11 yrs old, Richard started his BabyBee in the basement.
All his plane stuff was thrown out in the snow. Got frozen in, all winter.
(I know this is true, I helped him dig it out in the Spring)
Got his plane dried out, new coat of dope, ready for the summer. Swordsman23ish.
He left it with one or the other 5-6 of us 'unamedCoxCLGang' members, because he could not take it home.
Here is where it gets weird...
Spring arrives, nice flying day. We fly last years planes.
Some How? Richard's BB is running WAY better than the rest of ours.
No tachs then, just months old info from US hobby mags.
Same props/fuel, it was just way better.
A stock Cox BaybyBee.049, bought from the same (bike ride away) Hobby Shop, as ours.
Only difference? His engine was left out for the winter...
So guess, how many BBs here were left out the next winter? Smile

(A: 5, I know of Smile

)
The experiment was not ever completed...
The Hobby shop had new CoxTDs and cool .19 and .35 CL planes.... Smile

I cannot believe how we were allowed to 'cut lawns, deliver papers, etc odd jobs', at that young age.
To afford to go to the local hobby shop...
And get a Cox.049 running... Cool

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave

Edit: Somehow we figured how to get a stock BB inverted. Just plug one of the fill tubes with a toothplck,
It would lean out, and you could usually get back to upright flying... At age 12 ! Cool

batjac Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:21 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:
I don't see how the extra vent (bottom one, top one on stunt tank immersed in fuel) would affect running. Atmospheric pressure is maintained inside the tank. About the only downside is losing fuel flying C/L inverted or outside loop through the Babe Bee tank back vents. As a quick fix, I'd probably just plug those Babe Bee back vents with round toothpicks, trim flush. When needed again, poke a smaller diameter music wire to remove them. But that's me.

It might just be the engine I was using, but when I ran the vented tank back with a stunt tank it would tend to blow more fuel out the vents when first starting, and until the tank level went down a little.

Anyway, I am finding it easier to stumble on stunt tanks than the non-vented tank backs. So what I do is use the vented tank backs, but I press the tip of a wooden toothpick in the vents. The wood swells when it comes in contact with the fuel and plugs the vents nicely. If I ever want to use the backplate with a standard tank, all I have to do is push a pin into the vents from the interior and pop the toothpick tip back out.

The Puffed Up Mark

balogh Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:52 pm

Mark I think what you describe is normal. The air blowing over the fuel nipples on the backplate creates suction in the tank, and without the stunt nipples a small depression is created in the tank. If stunt nipples make the tank interior open towards the atmoshere, there will be no depression in the tank, and the air stream induced suction at the filling nipples will be able to draw some fuel out..

akjgardner Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:57 pm

Wow, just reading all these I think I just turned back into a 12 year old boy , just like Tom Hanks in the movie Big,I’m going to run some engines when I get home. Or maybe even build a Frankinbee Very Happy

GallopingGhostler Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:59 pm

akjgardner wrote:Or maybe even build a Frankinbee

Halloween is just around the corner. Wink

Kim Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:33 pm

Yeah,
I haven't harassed Billy about this...yet! It DID cause me a moment of consternation when I plopped the Bee on the operating tray. I was blankly taking it apart when I noticed the fueling nipples on the backplate (I can be a bit dense these days), but figured, "what the heck" and continued.

I'm betting he just built it up from parts in handy reach. I DID set it up for R/C as he was talking about building a third "Bee-Tween", and will make sure he's got a spare plastic "reed cap" or whatever it's called on these tanks that holds the reed in place. I MAY also just go ahead and replace it if the mood strikes before I get the engine back to him.

What this ALSO did was cause me to inventory my "Bee Guts in Stock", and shoot an order to Bernie for a bunch of that stuff.

GallopingGhostler Tue Jun 27, 2023 4:37 pm

Kim wrote:I haven't harassed Billy about this...yet!

IMO a safe bet and nothing wrong with saying, "Engine is a very good runner, good strong power output. Just curious, noticed engine was assembled with a combination of parts from various engines, what is its history?

Kim wrote:What this ALSO did was cause me to inventory my "Bee Guts in Stock", and shoot an order to Bernie for a bunch of that stuff.

Been there done that, ordered parts from both Bernie and Matt a couple months ago. I just made sure to intercept the deliveries before my wife was able to. Very Happy

rdw777 Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:10 pm

I think no matter what our favorite Cox engine is the humble Bee seems to bee the backbone Cox line up and holds a special regard with most of us….Probably the most diverse in what it powered from factory products, Kits, Plan builds, And all manner of just thought up stuff…. I’ve got four from different time periods and enough parts to build a couple more…. Need to make something for them to fly…. I like the blue spinner on Billy’s engine.. Kind of like the signature for that combo of parts….. Good job on fixing it up Kim Thumbs Up

HalfaDave Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:41 pm

Hi rdw777,
The humble 'single port' Cox engines are easy to start, run great.
More than enough, for today's lighter R/C gear. Or simple CL. FF if you have room.
I get the 'high performance' end. But...
All my 'single ports' still run great.
And I can easily get get parts here, on CEF... Smile

Just agreeing with everyone... Cool

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave

Kim Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:45 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:
Kim wrote:I haven't harassed Billy about this...yet!
IMO a safe bet and nothing wrong with saying, "Engine is a very good runner, good strong power output. Just curious, noticed engine was assembled with a combination of parts from various engines, what is its history?
Kim wrote:What this ALSO did was cause me to inventory my "Bee Guts in Stock", and shoot an order to Bernie for a bunch of that stuff.
Been there done that, ordered parts from both Bernie and Matt a couple months ago. I just made sure to intercept the deliveries before my wife was able to.

Well, I probably need to define the term "Harass" as it applies to the relationships within the club....it's all in fun, so in my case, it would be more like, "What in the heck did you DO to this poor thing???!!!!???"

GallopingGhostler Wed Jun 28, 2023 4:03 pm

Kim wrote:Well, I probably need to define the term "Harass" as it applies to the relationships within the club....it's all in fun, so in my case, it would be more like, "What in the heck did you DO to this poor thing???!!!!???"

I learned to go slow and easy on things like this, unless I really know the person and know they will take the humor well. Thus, the more humble approach would probably gain a friend. Of course, the other option is to simply not say anything, but your repair.

@MauricioB would understand. No necesita discutirlo nada. You don't need to say anything. Very Happy

roddie Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:49 pm

HalfaDave wrote:Hi rdw777,
The humble 'single port' Cox engines are easy to start, run great.
More than enough, for today's lighter R/C gear. Or simple CL. FF if you have room.
I get the 'high performance' end. But...
All my 'single ports' still run great.
And I can easily get get parts here, on CEF...
Just agreeing with everyone...
Take care,
Have fun,
Dave

So "well put" Dave! You can't beat simple/reliable operation when it comes to a running a model engine. I also prefer running the original copper/beryllium star-shape reed/circlip-combo in a vintage aluminum tank-bowl/reed-housing. Some of my 5cc aluminum tank-bowls have been "drilled-through" for running the fuel-line out (bypassing) to an external source, which helps solve issues with air and/or fuel-leaks; common with aged OEM backplates. Get a good air-tight seal on the needle.. and you're good to go. Babe Bee .049

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