Jim Walkers FireBee - This is going to be fun

Really nice collection Bob, Great representation of American Jr. Fliers!!…. Box colors are inviting and attractive…. “Viuda Negra” a rare bird…. I enjoyed that thread!!…..Good job on the clones, Those missing parts that could be put back together again …. Has been a fun Jim Walker trail…. A lot there to learn….

I have always been interested in chronology, what predates what.  The chicken or the egg thing.  

I laid out those boxes in the way I think they were produced earliest at the top etc.  But I'm not sure.  I cannot find dates on the boxes or the plans.  Boy/girl on some, not on others, but still the base box.  Which came first, the all plastic fuselage or the metal wing based fuselage.  Some had places for the canopy and the engine, some did not.

Bugs me, but probably burried somewhere in one of those websites.  I would like to be able to spend more time researching, but I have more important things to do.

The JW connection.  A story in itself.



“Viuda Negra” a rare bird.

Yes, he has no head......... I wonder how it got past the final inspector.

What is this Viuda Negra ? All i can find is Black Widow ? Well the kits are getting more rare as Bob hoards them LOL That history would bee hard to find beeing so old !

getback wrote:What is this Viuda Negra ? All i can find is Black Widow ?  Well the kits are getting more rare as Bob hoards them LOL That history would bee hard to find beeing so old !

Viuda Negra.....I looked it up.  Knew it was something about black but I'm still confused.  Lot's of definations for it.  But, in this case Viuda Negra, the black pilot has lost most of his head!

Cloning.....you have to start somewhere.  Scrap Luan for the V crossbrace and motor mount.  Rest is balsa on hand.  I will have to double up on the crossbrace but the MM is a good fit.  Jig saw time.  

Viuda Negra…. This was the thread I was thinking about..I thought Bob was the originator but he ended up building a close replica…. Interesting read with a little more obscure stuff…

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t3303-extremely-rare-cox-thimble-drome-prototype-black-widow-gas-model-airplane?highlight=Lodela

rdw777 wrote:Viuda Negra…. This was the thread I was thinking about..I thought Bob was the originator but he ended up building a close replica…. Interesting read with a little more obscure stuff…

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t3303-extremely-rare-cox-thimble-drome-prototype-black-widow-gas-model-airplane?highlight=Lodela

Thanks Robert, I had forgotten about that thread. I just re-read it, and thanked CT for his response which I missed. Learned a few things (again) Viuda Negra in this context means "Black Widow." One of my favorites, "Happy Dad" RIP, George, Levent and others major contributors.

I just snapped this picture. Hangs in the same place but has gained a few friends.



Concern in the thread about the flat fuselage mount flattening the mosture treated cambered wing. Is that happening with yours?

I’m glad we found that thread, A good one!!…. Viuda Negra, A very unique spin off of Firebaby!…

When the wings were formed at the factory the center part where it slides into the fuselage mount was steamed flat …. Camber starts a a little outside of this flat section so the two shapes don’t interfere with each other…. Also dihedral starts at the outside edges of the flat section….Lines of the edges of the flat section are faintly visible in the photo…

I think these bends and shapes steamed in help with warp resistance…. Add to that a thin coat of dope forming sort of a stressed skin helps further…. I had the wing that I re-steamed off the jig a couple of days and it held its shape OK…. I doped it so now it will cure on the jig a few more days…I think it should be pretty stable after that….

"When the wings were formed at the factory the center part where it slides into the fuselage mount was steamed flat."

Thanks Robert. Got it and makes sense.

Someday I will have to put one of my NIB examples together so I understand it better.

I'm a SAE kind of guy.  Attended school at about the turn of the century.....Ok, maybe a bit later but not by much when they only taught the english system.  I always admired Rene's (Marleysky) quote "Fighting the metric system every inch of the way".  So when it came to ordering replacement tubing for the JW FireBee's engine and control line I was a lost puppy.  I'm still not sure that I have it right.

I stuck a 1/32" drill bit in the end of the FB's engine control tube and did an on-line conversion from 1/32" to mm and came up with about .8mm with an OD of about 4mm.  Sounds thick but there were no other options.  Cheap enough ($12) from China with free shipping I ordered 10mm, 30'.  



I have been building the FireBees clone.  Scrap balsa mostly, but SIG airfoil for the wing.  Engine mount is built-up Luan with the "groove" cut on the table saw to accept the balsa fuselage "tongue".  It took two passes swapped side to side.  




Scrap balsa indeed!

Nice work on the replica kit Bob …… The jig up on the table saw looks good too, As well as safe….On projects like these I like the idea of sticking to the original design… Would have been easier to make a slab wing but you’ll get more of its character the way you’re going….Should be fairly easy to replicate with common materials, But what are you planning for the canopy?…..

Looking Good!! on the tubing /

Thanks Eric. I hope that .8mm inside diameter fits over the brass tubing. It needs an air tight fit.



I'm thinking the same thing Robert. I'm making a buck to pull the heated plastic over but I have little skill at this and less how-to knowledge. Needs two people or three hands. I tried it before with poor results. Two hands to pull the heated plastic over the buck and a third to operate the heat gun or hair drier.




Getting around to the engine mount which will need relieving. If I feel I can do the air throttle I will use the JW, if not the Royal Spitfire........same engine without the throttle.

“I'm thinking the same thing Robert”

Just waiting for that soap bottle to finish up!…. Kinda funny shopping for stuff in the grocery store based on the bottle shape!!

I did cut out a canopy buck to try to form a plastic canopy around. I'm not holding out much hope. I may just paint it and decal the enclosed pilot image. I also duplicated all the associated features. I always cut large, lot's of balsa removed while forming/sanding.



Self explainatory. Rough handles on cheap Harbor Freight hole punch sets make great abrasives with a wide choice.





Crunch time. Debated, epoxy or glue. Love/hate affair with epoxy. Glue won out. Painted on both tongue and groove. Weighted on glass. Very flat.

RSV Bob,

How wide, how long and how tall is the canopy?

I have an idea...

944_Jim wrote:RSV Bob,

How wide, how long and how tall is the canopy?

I have an idea...

Thanks Jim, because I don't have a clue.  But I will need a clear canopy as I want to paint it exactly like the box image and silver on silver just won't work.  I would have to paint a black dividing line between canopy and fuselage.  

Looks like 5 1/4 X 1 1/4 X 1/4 (inside.)  I have not fully shaped the buck yet.





Oops......I have the fuselage positioned upside down.




BTW - Lower right hand corner.  "Jim Walker, originator of U-control."  Perhaps open for debate?

Jump in here and build one. Robert and I need company.    I could send you scans.

Nice use of the re-purposed punch’s to be rasps!!… Got to have a modeler’s eye to see those things!!! …Today’s wood glues are very strong, You should be fine with that joint….Hopefully Jim has a good work around for the canopy….. Clear plastic is not one of my strong points either!!

rdw777 wrote:Nice use of the re-purposed punch’s to be rasps!!… Got to have a modeler’s eye to see those things!!! …Today’s wood glues are very strong, You should be fine with that joint….Hopefully Jim has a good work around for the canopy….. Clear plastic is not one of my strong points either!!

I don't think going the bottle route is going to work Robert.  Bottle plastic is a lot thicker than that used on the JW canopys.  

I used a hair drier on high and second, third, and fourth hands and could not get it to work, especially the severely angled front.  I'm going to check Hpbby Lobby for thinner plastic sheet tomorrow when I go to pick up more balsa.  



The video that I saw on this showed a fellow laying a sheet of plastic over a form and using heat it just assumed that form. I think that whomever had JW's contract to make these used a female/male form to make them. If he contracted for 1500 of these making them by hand would be way too labor intensive.

I used a 1 liter water bottle on the BHM Mossie. It's canopy was about the same size, Bob.

The beauty of the water bottle is it also acts as that third hand one needs, with the wrap-around material getting packed outward by the buck and packing material. I used several pieces of wood to pack out the bottle in stages. Heat to stretch, and heat to shrink. The Mossie took a few attempts.

I think the trick with this one is taking the bottle and packing it with a wooden buck that can move.
Think a buck and base built like a "see saw," thin enough that there is no side draft. The pivot points can be simply side plates not in the bottle. Heat applied to the bottle at the sides of the "see-saw" start to collapse/flatten the sides, then start heating over the top edges and top of canopy to get the plastic soft while pressing the end not in the bottle to push upward on the end in the bottle.
Mount your "seesaw" in a vice so one hand operated the heat gun, and the other hand operates the "out-of-bottle" end.

I hope a mental.image can be conjured up. If not, I'll go scratch out a doodle.

944_Jim wrote:I used a 1 liter water bottle on the BHM Mossie. It's canopy was about the same size, Bob.

The beauty of the water bottle is it also acts as that third hand one needs, with the wrap-around material getting packed outward by the buck and packing material. I used several pieces of wood to pack out the bottle in stages. Heat to stretch, and heat to shrink. The Mossie took a few attempts.

I think the trick with this one is taking the bottle and packing it with a wooden buck that can move.
Think a buck and base built like a "see saw," thin enough that there is no side draft. The pivot points can be simply side plates not in the bottle. Heat applied to the bottle at the sides of the "see-saw" start to collapse/flatten the sides, then start heating over the top edges and top of canopy to get the plastic soft while pressing the end not in the bottle  to push upward on the end in the bottle.
Mount your "seesaw" in a vice so one hand operated the heat gun, and the other hand operates the "out-of-bottle" end.

I hope a mental.image can be conjured up. If not, I'll go scratch out a doodle.

Scratch out a doodle Jim, cause I'm scratching my head.

I think a female form, heat and a buck over plastic pressed in would work????

I remember that Mossie well.  We worked a couple of them together.  That canopy turned out beautiful and was very similar to the FireBees.

Cut the neck off the bottle and take advantage of the narrower section for the steeper "front glass."

For the Mossie, I cut shims to stack below the buck and kept heating/stacking/shrinking/stretching. A good close-up of the canopy would show a small section that really shrunk down almost too thick . It lost the clarity of 95% of the rest of the canopy. But I had to shrink just that area to get a flange in the leading edge of the canopy. I didn't want a hard edge that might dig into the fuselage if the plane flipped over.

Your HL may have this ., is what i would use an fold it over and apply heat  Polystyrene Sheet >> https://www.hobbylobby.com/Crafts-Hobbies/Model-Kits/Tools-Adhesives/Plain-Polystyrene-Sheet---2mm/p/80968563