A decent first CL model?

nitroairplane Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:25 pm

so guys i was wondering if you thought i could lear to fly on this little model i really really like it and have the perfect engine for it.
http://www.densmodelsupplies.co.uk/index.php?b=&t=&c=1/2a&s=&p=p51_mustang&pid=167

Cz10 Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:44 pm

I thought I saw somewhere that Blackhawk was discontinuing this series due to poor sales, which may relate to the flying qualities...

Something with a built up wing, like the Musciano Hawker Hurricane from Blackhawk, would fly better, no doubt... But also may not be as rugged.

NeedNitro Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:52 pm

Hi Nitro,

Dick Sarpolus has designed a bunch of NICE planes.. You would do well to build and fly this Mustang, though I would put a set of gear on it ... There's nothing cooler than watching your airplane ROG... and it's less stressful and easier than hand launching...

What engine would you use on it??

There are a couple more Sarpolis type designs here... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1125533

nitroairplane Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:04 am

NeedNitro wrote:Hi Nitro,

Dick Sarpolus has designed a bunch of NICE planes.. You would do well to build and fly this Mustang, though I would put a set of gear on it ... There's nothing cooler than watching your airplane ROG... and it's less stressful and easier than hand launching...

What engine would you use on it??

There are a couple more Sarpolis type designs here... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1125533

well that is good news i really like this model I have a frog 100 (0.06cuin) diesel engine.
i was going to put gear on it anyway i was also thinking of making a dolly that it would leave behind on takeoff so as not to ruin the lines of the amazing plane.

warrenlead Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:40 am

A great little model that is easy to build and flies really really well is the Brodak Baby Clown
I taught my kids to fly on these, and they are fully stunt-able!
http://www.brodak.com/shop.php?CategoryID=133

Cheers

nitroairplane Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:57 am

warrenlead wrote:A great little model that is easy to build and flies really really well is the Brodak Baby Clown
I taught my kids to fly on these, and they are fully stunt-able!
http://www.brodak.com/shop.php?CategoryID=133

Cheers

those are nice but there is just something about that mustang.

Cz10 Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:09 am

Yes, the mustang is nice, but.....

Consider the time and care you will put into it making it look great... Do you REALLY want to try and make that the FIRST CL plane you want to TRY to fly with no experience knowing that there is a very good chance you will crash, and crash and possibly crash again, learning?

Why not first build something cheap, easy and rugged like one of the platters shown here

http://www.aeromaniacs.com/Freeplans.htm

Or perhaps the half-lite stunter at the bottom of the page to cut your teeth on?

I flew CL a lot... No problem flying combat with 100 MPH .35 powered wings on the end of 60' lines - but many years ago. So i am re-starting with an advantage, tempered by a lot of time, over you, but I would rather re-earn my wings on something like that then crash the Staggerwing Beech that I posted recently.

Patience, grasshopper... You need to learn to walk before you can run.

NeedNitro Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:16 am

We share the same affection for the P-51 Mustang... I built a sized-down (049) 18" wingspan version of the vintage "Enterprise" all sheet f-51 about 4 yrs ago.. I had an old wen mac 4 blade prop with a cox slipstream spinner that was cutout to fit the prop. Silver plane with a painted red nose.... She flew like she was on rails... take offs and landings were easy...

c/l flying is EASY!!!.... your buddy holds the plane after you start it, you grab the controls and he lets it go... the plane will ROG and do the rest. Just keep it level for the first flights til you get used to feel of your particular plane. Landing is keeping it level when you think the engine is about to stop, when it does, walk backwards keeping the lines tight, almost like whipping it, control to a safe landing.... sweet...

>>> check out this vid, I did this same thing 38yrs ago with a GREEN STUKA.. landings like this are typical with plastic planes, not so much with lighter balsa jobs.... there is also a vid of a corsair with a better landing

nitroairplane Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:04 am

It doesn't look to hard (famous last words) is it the same theory as rc?
Don't over control?

andrew Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:15 am

Cz10 wrote:

Why not first build something cheap, easy and rugged like one of the platters shown here
http://www.aeromaniacs.com/Freeplans.htm
Or perhaps the half-lite stunter at the bottom of the page to cut your teeth on?

.......................

Patience, grasshopper... You need to learn to walk before you can run.

I agree with Cz10 on this one.

I looked at the Mustang on the posted site; it's nice looking, but expensive for a sheet wing plane, around $39 USD if my conversions are correct. Typically, a sheetwing SIG kit will run $15 to $20 USD.

These planes are incredibly easy to build -- if you can use an Xacto knife or razorblade and straightedge, you can build a 1/2A sheetwing C/L plane from a few pounds (money, not weight Very Happy

) of balsa. The aeromaniacs site has another set of plans for the Stunt Chimp (http://www.aeromaniacs.com/images/stunt_chimp.pdf) that you could easily whip together.

Another plane I've recommended for first timers is the 1/2A Man-Win trainer from Balsa Beavers (http://www.balsabeavers.ca/begginers_page.htm). It's about as cheap, simple and tough as it gets.

Since this is your first rodeo, so to speak, with C/L, you are going to dirtnap several times. I think it's best to stick a cheap, quick build rather than stuff something that you have invested a lot of money, time and tender loving care in building. You can always have the Mustang on the boards while honing your skills on something that won't break your heart if it comes home in a bag.

andrew

Cz10 Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:36 am

I just happened to look at issue #1 of Half-A-Flyer magazine that Blachawk is putting out. There is an article along with (reduced size) plans on building this exact model of the P-51.... I'd bet could subscribe to the PDF version of the magazine AND buy the material to build this yourself for what the kit cost or less (you sign up for a year and get the first 3 editions plus the next one... It is published 4 times a year) .

NeedNitro Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:45 pm

https://youtu.be/RbzKY3Y3iLc

MUSTANNNNNNG!!!!!

also... scratch building will save you lots of $$$

nitroairplane Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:49 pm

andrew wrote:
Cz10 wrote:

Why not first build something cheap, easy and rugged like one of the platters shown here
http://www.aeromaniacs.com/Freeplans.htm
Or perhaps the half-lite stunter at the bottom of the page to cut your teeth on?

.......................

Patience, grasshopper... You need to learn to walk before you can run.

I agree with Cz10 on this one.

I tried to print off the man win but my computer does not want to know about PDFs at the moment. I have built a lot of rc and ff planes in my time so am very confident builder.
I don't mind reparing balsa (I learned rc by myself)
I jut think this will be a model I will enjoy for a long time.
As to the price yeah man [bleep] expensive here apart from diesels they are really inexpensive (look SD i never said cheap )

I looked at the Mustang on the posted site; it's nice looking, but expensive for a sheet wing plane, around $39 USD if my conversions are correct. Typically, a sheetwing SIG kit will run $15 to $20 USD.

These planes are incredibly easy to build -- if you can use an Xacto knife or razorblade and straightedge, you can build a 1/2A sheetwing C/L plane from a few pounds (money, not weight ) of balsa. The aeromaniacs site has another set of plans for the Stunt Chimp (http://www.aeromaniacs.com/images/stunt_chimp.pdf) that you could easily whip together.

Another plane I've recommended for first timers is the 1/2A Man-Win trainer from Balsa Beavers (http://www.balsabeavers.ca/begginers_page.htm). It's about as cheap, simple and tough as it gets.

Since this is your first rodeo, so to speak, with C/L, you are going to dirtnap several times. I think it's best to stick a cheap, quick build rather than stuff something that you have invested a lot of money, time and tender loving care in building. You can always have the Mustang on the boards while honing your skills on something that won't break your heart if it comes home in a bag.

andrew

fredvon4 Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:50 pm

The idea of a dolly for take off is good and not hard to implement but does require a asphalt or cement run way...

If your first CL training is going to be in parking lot or other hard surface circle, then strap on the cheapest 049 and not you prized possession clean n cool engine... High speed nose dive into concrete is very hard on the little buggers

I bought the Sig SkyRay (US$14) and enough balsa from Sig to build about 6 more for $20...the big expense is the Butyrate Dope to fuel proof

You will tweak one or two planes before getting the hang of small circle light weight 1/2A CL...

In fact I recommend to most folks to start at the .35 Enya/Fox/K&B sized CL for initial training as they have a much larger circle, weight more, have better centrifugal force, and are not as prone to light wind gusts slacking the lines

I learned on 1/2A but it was much more difficult and when I launched my first .35 stunt plane I was astounded at how much easier it was and made all my knee shaking fears totally unfounded.

For your first few slab / plank balsa kits do not send any time making pretty and glass smooth... Build in less than 3 hours and fly for 39 seconds..

Not saying you will immediately crash... but if you do and have 59 hours sanding painting, sanding, painting until you can not see the wood grain... auggering in raises real tears... ask me how I know....grin

nitroairplane Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:55 am

fredvon4 wrote:The idea of a dolly for take off is good and not hard to implement but does require a asphalt or cement run way...

If your first CL training is going to be in parking lot or other hard surface circle, then strap on the cheapest 049 and not you prized possession clean n cool engine... High speed nose dive into concrete is very hard on the little buggers

I bought the Sig SkyRay (US$14) and enough balsa from Sig to build about 6 more for $20...the big expense is the Butyrate Dope to fuel proof

You will tweak one or two planes before getting the hang of small circle light weight 1/2A CL...

In fact I recommend to most folks to start at the .35 Enya/Fox/K&B sized CL for initial training as they have a much larger circle, weight more, have better centrifugal force, and are not as prone to light wind gusts slacking the lines

I learned on 1/2A but it was much more difficult and when I launched my first .35 stunt plane I was astounded at how much easier it was and made all my knee shaking fears totally unfounded.

For your first few slab / plank balsa kits do not send any time making pretty and glass smooth... Build in less than 3 hours and fly for 39 seconds..

Not saying you will immediately crash... but if you do and have 59 hours sanding painting, sanding, painting until you can not see the wood grain... auggering in raises real tears... ask me how I know....grin

I went though that for rc years and years ago.
I understand that bigger planes fly better.

Cz10 Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:16 am

You know, it seems that you were convinced that this was the right plane for you to learn on BEFORE you asked the question...

nitroairplane Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:28 am

Cz10 wrote:You know, it seems that you were convinced that this was the right plane for you to learn on BEFORE you asked the question...

No i dont think i am going to build it i would just like to.
I did want your opinions and will probably build from plans like you suggested.
I am very thankful for all the information and help you have given me.

PV Pilot Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:18 pm

I see alot of folks flying a Shoestring stunter as there first flight. pretty docile for a big CL,,so long as the motor needle is set somewhat rich. My buddy built and flew one for his first time with a McCoy Redhead .19 tuned down. Nice easy circuts to get the hang of it, then after a few flights we tuned it up a bit.

nitroairplane Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:44 pm

PV Pilot wrote:I see alot of folks flying a Shoestring stunter as there first flight. pretty docile for a big CL,,so long as the motor needle is set somewhat rich. My buddy built and flew one for his first time with a McCoy Redhead .19 tuned down. Nice easy circuts to get the hang of it, then after a few flights we tuned it up a bit.

That is a good suggestion what length lines does it fly on because ibhave rather limited space to fly.

PV Pilot Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:08 pm

nitroairplane wrote:
PV Pilot wrote:I see alot of folks flying a Shoestring stunter as there first flight. pretty docile for a big CL,,so long as the motor needle is set somewhat rich. My buddy built and flew one for his first time with a McCoy Redhead .19 tuned down. Nice easy circuts to get the hang of it, then after a few flights we tuned it up a bit.

That is a good suggestion what length lines does it fly on because ibhave rather limited space to fly.

Well, I believe he used 60' lines at the time, this was MANY years ago

How much room do you have??

nitroairplane Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:11 am

That I can legally use the size of one football (soccer) pitch illegally a whole park early in the morning.

PV Pilot Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:23 am

nitroairplane wrote:That I can legally use the size of one football (soccer) pitch illegally a whole park early in the morning.

As I guess, I would say you could go 50' then,,on the football field which is what I would use because it would be more private, no dogs wandering in, kids, ect.. A NFL football field is 160' across, here in the states.

Borrow or buy a 120' reel tape,,and go check your preferred sites. as a suggestion.

Any local private municipal airports close by??. You might be able to as for permission to use a section of the end of a lesser used taxiway for your runway and fly area. Don't know how regulated that is across the pond, but on the older municipal airports here it's pretty easy to do.

SuperDave Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:09 pm

If staying within a small flying circle radius is a problem, try standing an circular ring like a "Hula Hoop".

Worked for me when flying in a gym where cleared obstructions by the thinest of margins.

SuperDave Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:40 pm

nitro:

If a profile fuse and slab wings are your "thing" the Mustang shown should suit you just fine. The flight behavior will by OK at best but they are an easy build.

If you'd like a built-up fuse and wing with an airfoil go for the "Skydrill" from: www.selecthobbies.com Steve Adams will set you up with a plane of far superior flight characteristics. Just spoke with Steve this morning about the "Skydrill" in fact.

SuperDave Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:49 pm

nitroairplane wrote:It doesn't look to hard (famous last words) is it the same theory as rc?
Don't over control?

Not really like RC because you are usually much closer to the gound with CL. With 30 foot lines even at the apex of a wingover the plane is never more than thirty feet off the ground whereas the with RC you can climb to higher elevations before getting "creative" with manuvers.

Yes, "over controlling" can set up conditions that are difficult to correct when flying CL.

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